MANCHESTER - 8
Sorry to hear of your woes but was your flight early and therefore
you had to wait for a position?
Come to think of it, this flight arrived at 06:33, as I looked at an arrival log that day. The schedule time of arrival is 07:10, so that accounts for 37 minutes of the wait, and then add on 5 mins of taxi time (as the EY had to wait between 05L/R, then there is your 42 minutes.
So, to summerise, not a MAN issue whatsoever!
you had to wait for a position?
Come to think of it, this flight arrived at 06:33, as I looked at an arrival log that day. The schedule time of arrival is 07:10, so that accounts for 37 minutes of the wait, and then add on 5 mins of taxi time (as the EY had to wait between 05L/R, then there is your 42 minutes.
So, to summerise, not a MAN issue whatsoever!
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I don't know for sure in this case, but often airlines are reluctant to change stands at the last minute, even if offered alternatives by the airport. As a result if the preferred stand is occupied they can still end up holding for a while despite being surrounded by other possibilities.
Stands are at a premium around 7am when the nightstoppers are leaving and the longhauls are piling in, so the airport don't have the luxury of keeping a stand free for the hour before a flight is due in just in case it shows up early. A downside of that of course is that a delay to the previous flight can easily have an impact to the next one.
Not poor customer service, just commercial reality I would have thought.
Stands are at a premium around 7am when the nightstoppers are leaving and the longhauls are piling in, so the airport don't have the luxury of keeping a stand free for the hour before a flight is due in just in case it shows up early. A downside of that of course is that a delay to the previous flight can easily have an impact to the next one.
Not poor customer service, just commercial reality I would have thought.
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I don't know, 'Wanna be There' if you work at MAN,
No, I dont work at MAN.....
but this is the attitude that drives me to despair of MAN. Typical MAN take or shove it response.
Not different to any airport arounf the world. As I mentioned earlier, I cant count the number of times I have had to wait for a stand at the likes of LHR/JFK/ORD etc, so why is it just typical of MAN.
No idea at all of customer service. Perhaps, from the airline and pax perspective, it didn't seem that big an issue to arrive half an hour early, it's not unusual after all. Perhaps they thought the airport actually might be able to accomodate them,
Like Ive said, the EY on the 8th was an A340-600, only a couple of stands at T1 are capable of holding it, so, if an aircraft was on stand, what exactly are MAN supposed to do about it? Tell the other airline to bugger off as theyve had their time, even if there are still pax boarding?, oh no, that brings it back to: No idea at all of customer service, and typical MAN take it or shove it response. You cant have it both ways!
40 odd minutes is unnaceptable, end of.
So, if a coach service runs say, from MAN-LON, and is 40 minutes early getting to just outside London, and then had to wait in traffic for 40 mins. The traffic then dissapated and you arrived at your stop bang on time, you would find that unnaceptable? After all, thats the basic story of whta happened to the EY flight.
But as you say, the flight arrived a bit early so it's not MAN's fault, it's the airline...
Bingo, so as you have admitted it yourelf, why argue the point and say it IS MAN's fault?!?!?!
No, I dont work at MAN.....
but this is the attitude that drives me to despair of MAN. Typical MAN take or shove it response.
Not different to any airport arounf the world. As I mentioned earlier, I cant count the number of times I have had to wait for a stand at the likes of LHR/JFK/ORD etc, so why is it just typical of MAN.
No idea at all of customer service. Perhaps, from the airline and pax perspective, it didn't seem that big an issue to arrive half an hour early, it's not unusual after all. Perhaps they thought the airport actually might be able to accomodate them,
Like Ive said, the EY on the 8th was an A340-600, only a couple of stands at T1 are capable of holding it, so, if an aircraft was on stand, what exactly are MAN supposed to do about it? Tell the other airline to bugger off as theyve had their time, even if there are still pax boarding?, oh no, that brings it back to: No idea at all of customer service, and typical MAN take it or shove it response. You cant have it both ways!
40 odd minutes is unnaceptable, end of.
So, if a coach service runs say, from MAN-LON, and is 40 minutes early getting to just outside London, and then had to wait in traffic for 40 mins. The traffic then dissapated and you arrived at your stop bang on time, you would find that unnaceptable? After all, thats the basic story of whta happened to the EY flight.
But as you say, the flight arrived a bit early so it's not MAN's fault, it's the airline...
Bingo, so as you have admitted it yourelf, why argue the point and say it IS MAN's fault?!?!?!
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Re Post 590 from learjet50
As they say Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.
Yes, You ARE missing something - the post which was above mine which was querying why an EZY had come in on Sat afternoon before the EK departed and had declared a medical emergency.
Oh and no I didnt enquire of the doctor as to her condition, I was more concerned with my own elderly mothers collapse......
Yes, You ARE missing something - the post which was above mine which was querying why an EZY had come in on Sat afternoon before the EK departed and had declared a medical emergency.
Oh and no I didnt enquire of the doctor as to her condition, I was more concerned with my own elderly mothers collapse......
Last edited by ian_h1; 11th Oct 2010 at 08:32. Reason: to reference original poster
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Yes, the Etihad flight I was on was early. But my point is that I have never had to wait for more than 10 minutes to get to a stand at any other world airport, only Manchester. And it has happened on several occasions.
Maybe I'm just lucky when I fly into other airports, but I certainly feel that luck evens itself out over a long period, so it's odd that I have only ever experienced lengthy delays at Manchester.
As I said in my original post, I have over 1 million miles under my belt so I don't believe I'm just picking on a single occurence of an issue and drawing an unfair conclusion.
I'm not here to bash MAN, just make an observation based upon a lot of experience. And certainly there was much anger amongst my fellow passengers, many of whom vowed never to fly into Ringway again - which was the main point of my post. We can all shrug our shoulders and say that it's reasonable to wait 49 minutes for a stand, but the customers on the flight didn't think so and will take their business elsewhere in the future. Which really, truly, breaks my heart. I love my city and my airport.
Maybe I'm just lucky when I fly into other airports, but I certainly feel that luck evens itself out over a long period, so it's odd that I have only ever experienced lengthy delays at Manchester.
As I said in my original post, I have over 1 million miles under my belt so I don't believe I'm just picking on a single occurence of an issue and drawing an unfair conclusion.
I'm not here to bash MAN, just make an observation based upon a lot of experience. And certainly there was much anger amongst my fellow passengers, many of whom vowed never to fly into Ringway again - which was the main point of my post. We can all shrug our shoulders and say that it's reasonable to wait 49 minutes for a stand, but the customers on the flight didn't think so and will take their business elsewhere in the future. Which really, truly, breaks my heart. I love my city and my airport.
Like many things in this industry, what people vow and what people actually do are often two completely different things.
I fly into MAN a hell of a lot and I have never had to wait for a stand at all. I think the justification made by other posters here is reasonable. That being an early arrival, different aircraft type and the morning peak. I would be interested to hear what the crews explanation was. I think you would find that if they explained that it was a particularly busy time at MAN, that you were early and using a larger than usual aircraft and the complications those things can bring, most pax would have perhaps appreciated the situation. Quite often it's the crews communication that is at fault in these situations.
I would never deny there is room for improvement (there always is as the cliche goes) but I detest some of the posts here that depict MAN as a poorly run third world type airport. The fact that it is consistently voted the best or one of the best UK airports by the travel trade and passengers alike and manages to make a profit goes, on the whole, unoticed.
I fly into MAN a hell of a lot and I have never had to wait for a stand at all. I think the justification made by other posters here is reasonable. That being an early arrival, different aircraft type and the morning peak. I would be interested to hear what the crews explanation was. I think you would find that if they explained that it was a particularly busy time at MAN, that you were early and using a larger than usual aircraft and the complications those things can bring, most pax would have perhaps appreciated the situation. Quite often it's the crews communication that is at fault in these situations.
I would never deny there is room for improvement (there always is as the cliche goes) but I detest some of the posts here that depict MAN as a poorly run third world type airport. The fact that it is consistently voted the best or one of the best UK airports by the travel trade and passengers alike and manages to make a profit goes, on the whole, unoticed.
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I agree with easyflyer, I fly in and out of Manchester regularly and can't remember the last time I had to wait on an aircraft for a stand to become free. However I can think of at least 4 occasions in the last 6 months where it has happened to me at Heathrow.
It seems that several things that are common around the world are quoted here as problems. I am currently in Lisbon having had probably had the longest walk from a stand to baggage reclaim, (with one very short travelator that probably went 10 - 15 metres). If that had been Manchester I am sure many on here would have been quoting this as another example of a problem, when in fact it is just a fact of life travelling to airports around the world.
It seems that several things that are common around the world are quoted here as problems. I am currently in Lisbon having had probably had the longest walk from a stand to baggage reclaim, (with one very short travelator that probably went 10 - 15 metres). If that had been Manchester I am sure many on here would have been quoting this as another example of a problem, when in fact it is just a fact of life travelling to airports around the world.
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And certainly there was much anger amongst my fellow passengers, many of whom vowed never to fly into Ringway again - which was the main point of my post. We can all shrug our shoulders and say that it's reasonable to wait 49 minutes
Right, I think you are missing a huge point here. You arrived 37 minutes early, and got onto stand 10 mins late. So, 10 mins is not that long of a delay, and any flight arriving 10 minutes either side of the scheduled arrival time is 'on time' in my opinion. Therefore, passengers were angry that they arrived at gate 'on time'?
Is there any other form of transport in the world where pax get pi**ed off at arriving on time?
I agree with easy flyer that a severe lack of communication from the flight deck is to blame for the 'anger' here.
Put it this way, which sounds better:
'we have to wait 47 minutes as there is no stand'
'we have arrived 37 minutes early and there is currently an aircraft on our allocated stand, so unfortunatly we will have to wait until the other flight departs'
Both statements are true, but one is worded much better.
As far as I remember, only stands 12 and 31 at T1 can handle the A340-600 due to the size, so, when an aircraft is parked on either stand, there is nothing that can be done about that, especially if you land 37 minutes ahead of your allocated time. Like has been said before, MAN cant leave stands available for a particular flight an hour before it arrives, especially where at a time where there is a high volumes of nightstopping aircraft and arrivals.
I think this whole thing has been completely blown out of proprortion and the people on this flight completely over-reacted.
Right, I think you are missing a huge point here. You arrived 37 minutes early, and got onto stand 10 mins late. So, 10 mins is not that long of a delay, and any flight arriving 10 minutes either side of the scheduled arrival time is 'on time' in my opinion. Therefore, passengers were angry that they arrived at gate 'on time'?
Is there any other form of transport in the world where pax get pi**ed off at arriving on time?
I agree with easy flyer that a severe lack of communication from the flight deck is to blame for the 'anger' here.
Put it this way, which sounds better:
'we have to wait 47 minutes as there is no stand'
'we have arrived 37 minutes early and there is currently an aircraft on our allocated stand, so unfortunatly we will have to wait until the other flight departs'
Both statements are true, but one is worded much better.
As far as I remember, only stands 12 and 31 at T1 can handle the A340-600 due to the size, so, when an aircraft is parked on either stand, there is nothing that can be done about that, especially if you land 37 minutes ahead of your allocated time. Like has been said before, MAN cant leave stands available for a particular flight an hour before it arrives, especially where at a time where there is a high volumes of nightstopping aircraft and arrivals.
I think this whole thing has been completely blown out of proprortion and the people on this flight completely over-reacted.
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As has been noted before, the Airport may well have offered an alternative stand but the airline then chose not to go with it. Will be lots of reasons - don't want their passengers bussed if on a remote stand and if on a remote stand there would likely be no time to re-position the aircraft on to the terminal with a relatively quick turnaround, tugging from remote costs etc etc.
One wonders what happened on this occasion - what did the crew say to the pax? In any case, from the pax point of view the Airport gets the blame as usual when something goes wrong, even when the problem may be not be within MAplc's sphere of responsibility.
Will be interesting to see what feedback you get from the Airport
Suzeman
One wonders what happened on this occasion - what did the crew say to the pax? In any case, from the pax point of view the Airport gets the blame as usual when something goes wrong, even when the problem may be not be within MAplc's sphere of responsibility.
Will be interesting to see what feedback you get from the Airport
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what sort of image must this send out to potential new airlines considering using manchester in the future? For an airport of its size and supposed future expansion plans it seems a bit lame to say sorry you're a bit early you're going to have to wait.
surely a bit of foward planning would avoid situations like this cropping up.
Also think about how much fuel is being wasted whilst these aircraft are sat waiting around for so long,im sure if it was a certain irish fellow's aircraft waiting for that long he would be putting a claim in for wasted fuel,down time of his aircraft,and crew wages.
surely a bit of foward planning would avoid situations like this cropping up.
Also think about how much fuel is being wasted whilst these aircraft are sat waiting around for so long,im sure if it was a certain irish fellow's aircraft waiting for that long he would be putting a claim in for wasted fuel,down time of his aircraft,and crew wages.
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seems a bit lame to say sorry you're a bit early you're going to have to wait.
OMFGthis is getting silly now!
The EY 15 on 8th October was an A340-600. It needed one of the 2 stands for an A340-600, but unforunatly an aircraft was on that stand, so yes, it had to wait!
It actually arrived at stand near as damn on time so what the hell is the issue!
If you arrived at a shop at 08:30, and it didnt open until 09:00, would you expect it to open at 08:30 for you?
I really really really really do not see what the issue is here?!?!?!?!?!
OMFGthis is getting silly now!
The EY 15 on 8th October was an A340-600. It needed one of the 2 stands for an A340-600, but unforunatly an aircraft was on that stand, so yes, it had to wait!
It actually arrived at stand near as damn on time so what the hell is the issue!
If you arrived at a shop at 08:30, and it didnt open until 09:00, would you expect it to open at 08:30 for you?
I really really really really do not see what the issue is here?!?!?!?!?!
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Etihad again
Long waits after touchdown for stands are amongst my pet peeves - and if you talk to Flight Deck crew, they agree.
Because the point of air travel is to get there quickly.
Call me biased but Zurich Airport, Singapore Airport and others recognise that.
You don't have to wait for a stand if you land early there.
For me, it's not acceptable to have a "jobsworths" attitude and say "it's your own fault for landing early".
If you want to keep passengers happy, then look after them well.
It's not proven, but it's likely there was another aircraft on the planned Etihad stand, but I doubt it was a A340-600.
So...perhaps the real questions are
1. Why was that other aircraft on stand? and/or
2. Perhaps there should be more than 2 stands capable of handling the A340-600?
Or maybe I've been spoilt by too many trips to the world's more efficient airports like HKG, SIN and ZRH...and before you think I'm a Scouser
, I'm born and bred in Stretford. NFT.
Because the point of air travel is to get there quickly.
Call me biased but Zurich Airport, Singapore Airport and others recognise that.
You don't have to wait for a stand if you land early there.
For me, it's not acceptable to have a "jobsworths" attitude and say "it's your own fault for landing early".
If you want to keep passengers happy, then look after them well.
It's not proven, but it's likely there was another aircraft on the planned Etihad stand, but I doubt it was a A340-600.
So...perhaps the real questions are
1. Why was that other aircraft on stand? and/or
2. Perhaps there should be more than 2 stands capable of handling the A340-600?
Or maybe I've been spoilt by too many trips to the world's more efficient airports like HKG, SIN and ZRH...and before you think I'm a Scouser
, I'm born and bred in Stretford. NFT.
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wanna be there
sorry mate im trying to look at this from the veiw point of a foreign passenger just arriving off a long haul and being told there's no gate just yet. after all we are talking about a major international airport,not a corner shop.
as a matter of interest does anyone know what aircraft were using the two gates in question?
as a matter of interest does anyone know what aircraft were using the two gates in question?
DCS99 you mention ZRH. U2's MAN-ZRH almost always uses airbridge equipment in ZRH. Last Tuesday we were placed on remote which included a 15/20 minute taxi. The reason for this is that there were no airbridge/terminal stands available and this was down to us "being out of sequence" due to the fact that we were almost 2 hours behind schedule. So with your reasoning do you care to elaborate?
Purplehelmet.... the odd delay is really not going to put anyone off. Passengers or potential airlines. The problem experienced by EY on Friday was an isolated occurance. Even if this happens 2 or 3 times a week (on an airport wide basis) it really isn't a huge problem. By contrast this happens on a much regular basis at other major airports........ LHR for example yet airlines are falling over themselves to fly into there.
This reminds me of the old "oh Emirates won't stand for that" comments. EK, EY and the rest all fly into some dog rough places and in comparison, MAN is a first class facility.
Just to play devils advocate, why not blame EY for sending the much larger A340-600? Because it is a ludricrous suggestion in the same vein that suggesting MAN has serious problems because an aircraft had to wait for a stand.
Purplehelmet.... the odd delay is really not going to put anyone off. Passengers or potential airlines. The problem experienced by EY on Friday was an isolated occurance. Even if this happens 2 or 3 times a week (on an airport wide basis) it really isn't a huge problem. By contrast this happens on a much regular basis at other major airports........ LHR for example yet airlines are falling over themselves to fly into there.
This reminds me of the old "oh Emirates won't stand for that" comments. EK, EY and the rest all fly into some dog rough places and in comparison, MAN is a first class facility.
Just to play devils advocate, why not blame EY for sending the much larger A340-600? Because it is a ludricrous suggestion in the same vein that suggesting MAN has serious problems because an aircraft had to wait for a stand.
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Why bother having slots....?
If SIA turns up an hour late, AA an hour early, Delta an hour early, Virgin 45 mins late etc etc and they all hit happen to the apron at the same time what happens then...?
...anyway went to my local Spar Sat morning for some milk, outrageous, had to wait 20 mins for them to open I'm now seeking counselling, rest assured I shall be writing to my MP !
If SIA turns up an hour late, AA an hour early, Delta an hour early, Virgin 45 mins late etc etc and they all hit happen to the apron at the same time what happens then...?
...anyway went to my local Spar Sat morning for some milk, outrageous, had to wait 20 mins for them to open I'm now seeking counselling, rest assured I shall be writing to my MP !
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For me, it's not acceptable to have a "jobsworths" attitude and say "it's your own fault for landing early".
Right, the EY landed early, the stand required was taken so it had to wait. Do you really think if there was another stand available airport control would sit there, clog up a taxiway and laugh at all the inconvinience they are causing?
Why was that other aircraft on stand?
erm, because other airlines are allowed to use stands at MAN too???? Or is MAN only allowed to be used by etihad from now on?
The EY flight arrived early, the other flight was still boarding. So, do you suppose the other flight leave early to accomodate the EY flight? Would you then like to be one of those pax left behind with the excuse 'oh well, another flight arrived early so we had to get our flight out of here' Get real.
Or maybe I've been spoilt by too many trips to the world's more efficient airports like HKG, SIN and ZRH...and before you think I'm a Scouser
, I'm born and bred in Stretford. NFT.
erm, we are talking about an isolated incident so who is to say MAN isnt efficient, or did I miss every single other flight having to wait for a stand every other single day. I forgot the emirates had to wait 10 hours for a stand last month
Right, the EY landed early, the stand required was taken so it had to wait. Do you really think if there was another stand available airport control would sit there, clog up a taxiway and laugh at all the inconvinience they are causing?
Why was that other aircraft on stand?
erm, because other airlines are allowed to use stands at MAN too???? Or is MAN only allowed to be used by etihad from now on?
The EY flight arrived early, the other flight was still boarding. So, do you suppose the other flight leave early to accomodate the EY flight? Would you then like to be one of those pax left behind with the excuse 'oh well, another flight arrived early so we had to get our flight out of here' Get real.
Or maybe I've been spoilt by too many trips to the world's more efficient airports like HKG, SIN and ZRH...and before you think I'm a Scouser
, I'm born and bred in Stretford. NFT. erm, we are talking about an isolated incident so who is to say MAN isnt efficient, or did I miss every single other flight having to wait for a stand every other single day. I forgot the emirates had to wait 10 hours for a stand last month
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DCS99
1. Why was that other aircraft on stand?
The EY was a half hour early. Perhaps whatever was occupying the stand wasnt yet due off... Off schedule works BOTH ways!
2. Perhaps there should be more than 2 stands capable of handling the A340-600?
Remind me again how often we get A340-600 service? The aircraft fits onto the same stand as the 777-300. We get a total of what? Three of them a day (scheduled)... Why build infrastructure where there clearly is not a need? The airport has 2 stands on T1 and all of T2 AND most of remote capable of accommodating that aircraft type. Perhaps EY should move to T2 or accept a remote stand... otherwise they wait!
1. Why was that other aircraft on stand?
The EY was a half hour early. Perhaps whatever was occupying the stand wasnt yet due off... Off schedule works BOTH ways!
2. Perhaps there should be more than 2 stands capable of handling the A340-600?
Remind me again how often we get A340-600 service? The aircraft fits onto the same stand as the 777-300. We get a total of what? Three of them a day (scheduled)... Why build infrastructure where there clearly is not a need? The airport has 2 stands on T1 and all of T2 AND most of remote capable of accommodating that aircraft type. Perhaps EY should move to T2 or accept a remote stand... otherwise they wait!
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Or maybe I've been spoilt by too many trips to the world's more efficient airports like HKG, SIN and ZRH...and before you think I'm a Scouser , I'm born and bred in Stretford. NFT.
Is Liverpool becoming to successful for you.
On the subject of the debate Manchester b4 the a380 was saying it could handle any aircraft at ANY TIME this is clearly not the case and i rest my case
