MANCHESTER - 8

[Suzeman]

LH

This way the airline is fixed with up to 162 (all Y) seats and a set cargo limit.

Don't think that all Y seats is correct.

The LH site will let me book Business fares on the bmiflights to FRA - and having used these flights on numerous occasions in the last 12 months in Business, it has always been fairly full if not completely so. It would be madness for LH not to offer business class on these flights and would drive high yielding traffic to find other hubs.

I understood that one A320 (G-MIDS?) has had or is undergoing cabin mods to make it consistent with LH's product and this aircraft will be used from on the FRA route from MAN.

Suzeman

[Suzeman]

QR

Fab news, although I'm lead to believe DOH-LGW is being canx to allow this growth

Good news indeed for MAN and is now bookable.

However LGW-DOH is still bookable for June and the rest of the summer at present

Suzeman

[GavinC]

Surely not long before Qatar build a lounge at MAN as their main rivals both now have lounges. However, as they are the odd one out being based T2, might we see a terminal switch first?

[NorthernCounties]

Rumours of a route to LDY with BE are rampant at the moment... early negiotation stage at the moment mind.

[MUFC_fan]

Don't think that all Y seats is correct.

The LH site will let me book Business fares on the bmiflights to FRA - and having used these flights on numerous occasions in the last 12 months in Business, it has always been fairly full if not completely so. It would be madness for LH not to offer business class on these flights and would drive high yielding traffic to find other hubs.

"This way the airline is fixed with up to 162 (all Y) seats and a set cargo limit."

[Suzeman]

MUFC

Your use of (all Y) in your message could be interpreted as meaning that this was all the aircraft was offering.

For those of us who don't know configurations, if there are 162Y seats on offer on this A320, how many C does that allow?

Suzeman

[goldeneye]

According to QR's website, both flights are being operated by A330-200's.

QR41 DOH 01:50 MAN 07:30 / QR42 MAN 10:00 DOH 19:00
QR45 DOH 07:45 MAN 13:25 / QR46 MAN 14:55 DOH 23:55

[MUFC_fan]

SeatGuru Seat Map bmi Airbus A320-200 Vers. 1 (320)

Sorry should have been more clear.

The aircraft can accommodate 162 seats in all Y and 0 C as they offer 31" legroom as opposed to 28" by Wizzair etc.

Obviously if it's fit out with Lufthansa config. then it'll probably end up like this:

SeatGuru Seat Map Lufthansa Airbus A320-200 (320)

[Suzeman]

MUFC

Thanks for the clarification and the link to that interesting website.

Suzeman

[Suzeman]

QR

Link below to the Qatar Airways press release about the double daily to MAN

Qatar Airways' Manchester Route Goes Double Daily | Qatar Airways Press Release

Suzeman

[MUFC_fan]

When you think about it, it's truly ridiculous that MAN should be able to sustain:

EK: 1x77W; 1x A380 (could be twice daily by year end!)
QR: 2x A332
EY: 10x weekly with whatever aircraft they're throwing at it.

Add that to the BA, KL, LH, AF etc connections available going East it just shouldn't happen.

Glad it is though...

[pwalhx]

I am so sorry I fail to see anything ridiculous about it at all.

[682ft AMSL]

Other than KLM, there's precious little in the way of connecting options from anywhere else along the M62 corridor so I suppose if you look at as serving the market from Leeds/Liverpool/Bradford/Sheffield/Hull in addition to Gtr Manchester, it's not too surprising.

[wanna_be_there]

And don't forget EY will be double daily too this winter, already confirmed by James Hogan (CEO)

[roverman]

East is East

......and don't forget SQ daily B773 to SIN, albeit shared with MUC. Etihad are clearly building toward 2 daily also, having invested in a smart new lounge.
There is indeed a slug of capacity going East out of MAN, and there are likely to be losers somewhere. But where? From MAN's viewpoint the losers will best be LHR and perhaps certain EU hubs who currently benefit from traffic originating in northern England. If spread around a bit this should not lead to loss of important hub frequencies ex-MAN, and also avoid a blood-bath between the Asian giants. LHR is already showing a weakening share of the northern England market, with bmi drastically cutting capacity on MAN-LHR.

Could the same boom happen going west, on the Atlantic? Ultimately a smaller market than going East, but here MAN does have one distinct advantage - you don't overfly any hubs between MAN and North America. Below Us Only Sea. Imagine.

[OltonPete]

Etihad

ETIHAD FY2011/12 Planned operation changes: Update 3 AIRLINE ROUTE

Etihad staying 10 weekly per the above.

However the site quoted basically just takes information from GDS
and there is plenty of time for this to change.

Pete

[Skipness One Echo]

Could the same boom happen going west, on the Atlantic? Ultimately a smaller market than going East, but here MAN does have one distinct advantage - you don't overfly any hubs between MAN and North America. Below Us Only Sea. Imagine.

I think MAN has all it's going to get going West to be honest. Add much more and something will give.
Potentially MAN-CLT with US as I doubt DUB-CLT will last given Ireland being a car crash economy right now and they're looking to use the paid for B767s to grow the network until more A332s arrive. CO / UA might see larger equipment on MAN-EWR with the second daily flight to another UA / CO hub. DL have both main hubs covered, AA still aren't year round daily on MAN-ORD and it's still a B757.

The main difference being that the US majors aren't government backed, vanity projects with bottomless money pits like Etihad. For a comparable European city of it's size, MAN has way more direct US traffic than one might expect. Also there is no dominant US carrier with the financial clout of say, Emirates.

[wanna_be_there]

Etihad staying 10 weekly per the above.

However the site quoted basically just takes information from GDS
and there is plenty of time for this to change

As you say, that site only reflects what is in GDS at the time, and EY have confirmed themselves that MAN will be double daily 'by year end', which is more than likely the winter schedule.

Potentially MAN-CLT with US as I doubt DUB-CLT

I would agree. MAN has always been a good station for US, so would not be surprised to see MAN-CLT added in 2012.

AA still aren't year round daily on MAN-ORD and it's still a B757

But one of the very few Euro-ORD routes to stay this winter, so cant be doing that bad for them.

Realistically, going west I could see:

-Air Canada to YYZ, as the competition that made them leave originally has gone, and with MAN-LHR connections dwindling for them, may be persuaded

-UA/CO to ORD, a route that seems to be banded around a lot for them. Maybe a new IAD depending on what they do with the EWR hub.

-US to CLT, as mentioned above.

And thats it really.
Anything else would be a bonus.

[roverman]

...........and West is West

Agreed. The US situation is different to the Asian one. There are no aggressively expanding airlines and hubs who can bankroll speculative routes in the same way. Nevertheless, MAN's services by USA carriers have shown remarkable resilience through the tough times. Delta have maintained the JFK over this winter, and AA will go year-round on this route from April. The current offer from the 4 big carriers seems sustainable and could support measured growth as long as it is genuinely new traffic, or market-share taken from LHR / EU hubs.

[MUFC_fan]

Agreed. The US situation is different to the Asian one.

I agree going west we are looking at a very mature market.

There are no aggressively expanding airlines and hubs who can bankroll speculative routes in the same way.

I think this is a general misconception amongst the Middle Eastern carriers. Yes they do have the money to do spectacular things, not least EK, but remember that they are serving a growing demand which they all seem not to be meeting! A+B can't deliver planes quick enough! I don't think what they're doing is 'speculative,' more being able to meet that new demand.

Nevertheless, MAN's services by USA carriers have shown remarkable resilience through the tough times.

I don't think it's that surprising really considering what we had only a few years ago. We had far more traffic going west when the likes of BA/BD were on the scene and the US carriers using larger aircraft. There is always demand for UK-US; mainly to do with business and historical ties. I think that it seemed to fall just before the recession really took hold which really created an odd situation whereby the supply had already been reduced to meet the smaller demand.

I agree I don't think we'll see many more destinations to the US, simply because they're all pushing the 'hub' system more so than ever before. Maybe larger aircraft.

However, I did say a while back that the Boeing 787 will be the new beginning of Manchester - and I stick with that statement!