Ryanair - 7
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Nor do either manufacturer want him flooding the 2nd hand market with his wares reducing the fleet values and the knock on effects this has to the leasing market.
The best thing for Boeing and Airbus is for Ryanair to go under in 5-10 years time. This will allow for many new startups and the refleeting of the old boys.
Befree, like them or loathe them how can it be the best thing for anyone for an airline to go under. Possibly one of the most ridiculous comments I have ever heard.
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New Norwegian.no base at HEL:
https://www.norwegian.com/about-norw...a=pressrelease
This should take a good chunk out of FR's possible customer base for TLL. Now it could really be just EE which seems too small to sustain a base, or depend on the Russians. Plus not great news for 'St Petersburg West' LPP. I don't get why FR is so reluctant to expand in Europe's biggest economy (and also the second and third), but go to all the fringes instead. They will learn eventually where the money is.
https://www.norwegian.com/about-norw...a=pressrelease
This should take a good chunk out of FR's possible customer base for TLL. Now it could really be just EE which seems too small to sustain a base, or depend on the Russians. Plus not great news for 'St Petersburg West' LPP. I don't get why FR is so reluctant to expand in Europe's biggest economy (and also the second and third), but go to all the fringes instead. They will learn eventually where the money is.
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This should take a good chunk out of FR's possible customer base
FR remains a very successive airline, no doubt about it. Thanks to their financial discipline and hard negotiation skills. But in the same time they did not manage to avoid many obvious flaws in regard to the development strategy and potential opportunities, lost in some cases. Also as a non-basher, have to take notice of this.
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Befree, like them or loathe them how can it be the best thing for anyone for an airline to go under. Possibly one of the most ridiculous comments I have ever heard.
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Reading the Birmingham thread you get the impression that it is Ryanair that have downsized there and not other airlines, however I look forward to the evidence to the contrary. Regarding Coventry I very much doubt the demise at that airport had much to do with Ryanair and more to its proximity to Birmingham and other local issues.
Don't get me wrong I am neither a fan of of Ryanair in the way Racedo is for example or do I particularly dislike them, they fill a need in the market, however I do feel your comments were unfair to the people who rely on FR for their livelyhood.
Closer to home where I live the feeling was they may lead to the demise of Jet2 ate Leeds/Bradford, this certainly dorsnt seem to be the case.
Don't get me wrong I am neither a fan of of Ryanair in the way Racedo is for example or do I particularly dislike them, they fill a need in the market, however I do feel your comments were unfair to the people who rely on FR for their livelyhood.
Closer to home where I live the feeling was they may lead to the demise of Jet2 ate Leeds/Bradford, this certainly dorsnt seem to be the case.
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You cant blame BHX/CVT's problems on Ryanair. Just look at EDI, massive FR expansion great news for Edinburgh and Scotland, but this has had no effect on other LCCs such as easyJet and Jet2 who are also doing very well running side by side.
BHX is simply an airport feeling the effects of the recession more than most, this is not Ryanair's fault. Passenger's want bucket and spade for their annual holiday and arent as willing to take 2/3/4 weekend city breaks. Those who can afford that drive to London etc and use those airports.
Once the good times come again expect all airlines to expand in the UK again.
On a note away from the usual Ryanair bashing...this winter sees a change in schedules dramatically across the network, with turnarounds increasing every now and again from 25 minutes up to an hour etc...I wonder whether this is effective planning to buffer the usual winter delays after a summer which has seen punctuality badly effected by strikes all over Europe. There's also lots of gaps which should allow for new routes to be announced. Still a strong rumour CPH is to see some Ryanair flights.
Also - 3 new bases are set to be announced in the coming weeks if all the rumours are to be believed, talk is 2 Canary's and Palma are high in the running.
BHX is simply an airport feeling the effects of the recession more than most, this is not Ryanair's fault. Passenger's want bucket and spade for their annual holiday and arent as willing to take 2/3/4 weekend city breaks. Those who can afford that drive to London etc and use those airports.
Once the good times come again expect all airlines to expand in the UK again.
On a note away from the usual Ryanair bashing...this winter sees a change in schedules dramatically across the network, with turnarounds increasing every now and again from 25 minutes up to an hour etc...I wonder whether this is effective planning to buffer the usual winter delays after a summer which has seen punctuality badly effected by strikes all over Europe. There's also lots of gaps which should allow for new routes to be announced. Still a strong rumour CPH is to see some Ryanair flights.
Also - 3 new bases are set to be announced in the coming weeks if all the rumours are to be believed, talk is 2 Canary's and Palma are high in the running.
Last edited by frfly; 5th Oct 2010 at 17:08.
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Well I must be missing something and in a big way ...
Why are Ryanair so wrong in getting/wanting massive discount on A/C when they place such a big order ...
If I was buying 10 fleet cars for my company I would want a huge discount and if I was buying 300 I would want MASSIVE discount and yes if I could show Ford that vauxall were offering me a good deal I would expect Ford to beat that offer.
Am I missing somthing or is it just the Bashers throwing their toys out of their prams again.
Why are Ryanair so wrong in getting/wanting massive discount on A/C when they place such a big order ...
If I was buying 10 fleet cars for my company I would want a huge discount and if I was buying 300 I would want MASSIVE discount and yes if I could show Ford that vauxall were offering me a good deal I would expect Ford to beat that offer.
Am I missing somthing or is it just the Bashers throwing their toys out of their prams again.
daz - the reason Airbus were not happy with MOL faxing Boeing the details of Airbus' offer is probably down to
a) What is often referred to as "commercial confidentiality", and
b) Airbus would have expended a lot of wasted time and effort on putting together a deal with Ryanair, meaning that they had less time to spend on airlines that were serious about buying from Airbus
Commercial confidentiality is the concept that if you want me to tell you lots of commercially sensitive non-public information that my rivals would like to hear, then I expect the information to be treated confidentially and for you not to dislose it. In a similiar way, if a company has many employees, the staff expect their boss not to tell everyone else in their team their salary.
As for b), how do Airbus know that if they spend time in 2011 putting together a deal with Ryanair, that Ryanair will actually treat it seriously and not just use it as a negotiation tool with Boeing and then tell Airbus to get lost. In effect, are Ryanair just being timewasters, or are they really serious about buying 300 A320-family aircraft ?
If you tell Ford the details of the offer on a huge fleet of 100,000 cars that Vauxhall were offering (remember that a 737 is worth over 1,000 times that of a car), you may well find that Ford improve their offer and you go with Ford. If you need to buy some more cars five years later, and in the meantime the fleet salesmanager at Vauxhall finds out what you did, then Vauxhall will be much less interested in talking to you - in effect Vauxhall may tell you to either pay full price for their cars or stop wasting their time.
a) What is often referred to as "commercial confidentiality", and
b) Airbus would have expended a lot of wasted time and effort on putting together a deal with Ryanair, meaning that they had less time to spend on airlines that were serious about buying from Airbus
Commercial confidentiality is the concept that if you want me to tell you lots of commercially sensitive non-public information that my rivals would like to hear, then I expect the information to be treated confidentially and for you not to dislose it. In a similiar way, if a company has many employees, the staff expect their boss not to tell everyone else in their team their salary.
As for b), how do Airbus know that if they spend time in 2011 putting together a deal with Ryanair, that Ryanair will actually treat it seriously and not just use it as a negotiation tool with Boeing and then tell Airbus to get lost. In effect, are Ryanair just being timewasters, or are they really serious about buying 300 A320-family aircraft ?
If you tell Ford the details of the offer on a huge fleet of 100,000 cars that Vauxhall were offering (remember that a 737 is worth over 1,000 times that of a car), you may well find that Ford improve their offer and you go with Ford. If you need to buy some more cars five years later, and in the meantime the fleet salesmanager at Vauxhall finds out what you did, then Vauxhall will be much less interested in talking to you - in effect Vauxhall may tell you to either pay full price for their cars or stop wasting their time.
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Shannon Airport is taking legal action against Ryanair for breach of contract as they failed to meet passenger numbers.
RTÉ News: Shannon taking legal action against Ryanair
RTÉ News: Shannon taking legal action against Ryanair
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Proposed Strike In France Next Week
I have noticed that Ryanair have already cancelled a large number of flights next week some four days before it is due to begin. A number of services are not to French airports but overfly. May I suggest that it is the middle of October and a bit quiet just before half-term so lets not operate or try to operate because the revenue will be down.
I bet a lot of other airlines will try to rearrange flights and show a bit of guile and ingenuity and try and get round the problems especially flights to/from Spain - but Ryanair don't do that sort of thing do they!
I bet a lot of other airlines will try to rearrange flights and show a bit of guile and ingenuity and try and get round the problems especially flights to/from Spain - but Ryanair don't do that sort of thing do they!
how do Airbus know that if they spend time in 2011 putting together a deal with Ryanair, that Ryanair will actually treat it seriously and not just use it as a negotiation tool with Boeing and then tell Airbus to get lost. In effect, are Ryanair just being timewasters.
Determining this is one of the joys of being in the sales team for any large-scale product, and is a skill that both Boeing and Airbus will be leaders in. Believe you me, both manufacturers get many approaches more potentially wasting of their time than Ryanair !
Despite the public statements no manufacturer will turn their back of a 200 plane order irrespective of what they think of the purchaser.
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Have to agree with Racedo on this
Post 9/11 MOL took a huge gamble & called it right, he got probably the deal of the decade and Boeing kept it plants turning and no doubt some soft loan loans in there as well!
Unfortunately for MOL the time is not right, both Boeing & Airbus have huge backlogs of orders (Boeing are increasing NG production to 38 a month!!)
Having said that a large order would be fought over by both sides and if Ryanair are to grow they probably need to split the order to keep both parties on their toes price wise.
I very much doubt that MOL will get the same level of discount from either player, they don't need it that badly, unless he has the balls to order a 1000 units!! or he could go to the Russian's or China?
The next money maker could be the regional market place, think what he could do in Europe with 500 dash or ATR's? lots of unemployed pilots (many trained and drained by Ryanair)
I was taxing out of EMA to Turkey the other day and the Ryanair "T" was doing circuits, when asked whether it was a touch and go the the training Captain said " no a full stop" quick as a flash someone came on the radio and said " credit card empty"
Unfortunately for MOL the time is not right, both Boeing & Airbus have huge backlogs of orders (Boeing are increasing NG production to 38 a month!!)
Having said that a large order would be fought over by both sides and if Ryanair are to grow they probably need to split the order to keep both parties on their toes price wise.
I very much doubt that MOL will get the same level of discount from either player, they don't need it that badly, unless he has the balls to order a 1000 units!! or he could go to the Russian's or China?
The next money maker could be the regional market place, think what he could do in Europe with 500 dash or ATR's? lots of unemployed pilots (many trained and drained by Ryanair)
I was taxing out of EMA to Turkey the other day and the Ryanair "T" was doing circuits, when asked whether it was a touch and go the the training Captain said " no a full stop" quick as a flash someone came on the radio and said " credit card empty"
Lappeenranta
Having been one who, along with pee has written here about the potential of Lappeenranta for Ryanair, the current schedule leaves me cold. Destinations are Dusseldorf and Brussels (well, their nearby equivalents). Who decided on these then ? For those in St Petersburg the prime destinations of choice in Western Europe would be London, Paris, and either Milan or Rome in Italy. Quite why these didn't make the cut but the lesser destinations did I can't imagine.
Also looking at the FR "timetable", Dusseldorf Weeze seems just once a week on Sunday, and as for Brussels Charleroi I can't get it to show me anything at all. That's not a road to profitability at all.
Also looking at the FR "timetable", Dusseldorf Weeze seems just once a week on Sunday, and as for Brussels Charleroi I can't get it to show me anything at all. That's not a road to profitability at all.
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Lappeenranta
Don't forget about me 
- pee was first indeed, but I've backed this idea as well, already in 2006 in Ryanair-2 thread. The ideal place and still underdeveloped. But even if NRN-Weeze wasn't the most fortunate choice, Lappeenranta did take a second place among all destinations served from NRN in July if ordered by the load factor, which was 90% on this route.
Ryanair tends to react very fast having struck a good deal somewhere, places several planes at once there and starts flying partially loss-making routes just to celebrate this deal. On the other hand, many interesting and decently profitable destinations with great prospects are developing very slowly as a "few euro per pax" deal is missing.
- pee was first indeed, but I've backed this idea as well, already in 2006 in Ryanair-2 thread. The ideal place and still underdeveloped. But even if NRN-Weeze wasn't the most fortunate choice, Lappeenranta did take a second place among all destinations served from NRN in July if ordered by the load factor, which was 90% on this route.Ryanair tends to react very fast having struck a good deal somewhere, places several planes at once there and starts flying partially loss-making routes just to celebrate this deal. On the other hand, many interesting and decently profitable destinations with great prospects are developing very slowly as a "few euro per pax" deal is missing.
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I guess it has to do with subsidies. Probably these do not come exclusively from the Finish end and NRN and CRL were willing to cough up some money, whereas those airports you mentioned were not.