DURHAM TEES VALLEY AIRPORT - 5
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"Good point Jamesair....if Newcastle management had any nous...which I'm sure they haven't....they could offer eastern and klm an offer they couldn't refuse...free landing fees for 2 years??? For any flights transferred..."
On the contrary, a clever management would do the reverse. Why give something away when the chances are its going to happen anyway ?
On the contrary, a clever management would do the reverse. Why give something away when the chances are its going to happen anyway ?
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if Newcastle management had any nous...which I'm sure they haven't....they could offer eastern and klm an offer they couldn't refuse...free landing fees for 2 years??? For any flights transferred..."
Penalties are quite substantial if found guilty (up to 10% of turnover I think) Maybe someone with legal qualifications can enlighten.
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KLM seem to have a nice business at NCL with (in my experience) pretty full 737s flying to AMS. If they deliberately set out to move the Teesside flights (which for all any of us know could well making a lot of money for KLM) to NCL they would have to consider:
a) How many customers would just use Easyjet to fly to AMS?
b) How many would change carriers and transfer through LHR instead of AMS?
c) How much would the load factor on the KL 737s from NCL increase with no flights from Teesside?
d) What would be the lost revenue on NCL flights (prices are normally c£100 more from Teesside)?
e) How much would transfer to LBA (Jet2 compete with KL on this route)?
I must have taken 30 flights out of Teesside in the past 18 months and in my experience the morning and evening flights are pretty full, even with the prices that KL charge. The airport may be losing a fortune but I don't think KL are on this route.
a) How many customers would just use Easyjet to fly to AMS?
b) How many would change carriers and transfer through LHR instead of AMS?
c) How much would the load factor on the KL 737s from NCL increase with no flights from Teesside?
d) What would be the lost revenue on NCL flights (prices are normally c£100 more from Teesside)?
e) How much would transfer to LBA (Jet2 compete with KL on this route)?
I must have taken 30 flights out of Teesside in the past 18 months and in my experience the morning and evening flights are pretty full, even with the prices that KL charge. The airport may be losing a fortune but I don't think KL are on this route.
tiger - there's another issue to consider. At the moment, with flying split across Newcastle and DTV, it's somewhat fragmented. In effect, DTV is a fortress airport for KLM - there's sufficient demand for only 1 network carrier so nobody else can break into the network flying market at DTV, meaning KLM get all the business which doesn't already leak to Newcastle.
If DTV loses KLM, all flying in NE England is then concentrated in Newcastle, making network flying from Newcastle a much larger and more attractive market.
Would Lufthansa perhaps be tempted to either scale up their Newcastle-Dusseldorf route or perhaps even launch Newcastle-Frankfurt ? Alternatively, might Emirates or SAS increase capacity ? If so, this could take a large chunk of NE England centric revenue away from KLM
If DTV loses KLM, all flying in NE England is then concentrated in Newcastle, making network flying from Newcastle a much larger and more attractive market.
Would Lufthansa perhaps be tempted to either scale up their Newcastle-Dusseldorf route or perhaps even launch Newcastle-Frankfurt ? Alternatively, might Emirates or SAS increase capacity ? If so, this could take a large chunk of NE England centric revenue away from KLM
Assuming all the DTVA traffic goes north and not south to LBA, or that the shift to NCL would be big enough to have an impact.
It would also create a significant backlash if NCL was seen publicly to be going for MME.
It would also create a significant backlash if NCL was seen publicly to be going for MME.
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It would also create a significant backlash if NCL was seen publicly to be going for MME.
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Budget abstract :-
The only interest that Peel will have with this is to evaluate if there is a further opportunity to "trouser" yet more funds from the public purse.
A £20 million per year “Regional Air Connectivity Fund” will be used to encourage airlines to start-up new routes from regional airports, such as Newcastle and Durham Tees Valley.
Bunch of people arranging deckchairs on the Titanic
The airport's targets are ludicrously unambitious. 6 years to get from 160,000 to 200,000 pax which was achieved in 1973. Yes 6 years to add the equivalent of a 3x weekly Boeing 737
36 years to get to the same level as DTV was at in 1995
Those targets will be forgotten about long before 2020 and other events will have overtaken the airport long beforehand.
The airport's targets are ludicrously unambitious. 6 years to get from 160,000 to 200,000 pax which was achieved in 1973. Yes 6 years to add the equivalent of a 3x weekly Boeing 737
36 years to get to the same level as DTV was at in 1995
Those targets will be forgotten about long before 2020 and other events will have overtaken the airport long beforehand.
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 22nd Mar 2014 at 20:14.
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Just about to make same observation :
If this isn't enough fodder for those that wish the airport to close it's door to commercial operations then I really can't see what is !
Also in press was comment by transport minister as to the poor transport infrastructure to DTV, no mention or intention as to the role that Peel & local councils have played (or not) in their improvement.
One thing you can't blame for drop in numbers are the travelling public as they can only use those air services that are put in front of them.
Who mentioned the Titanic ?
The airport says it plans to boost annual passenger numbers to 200,000 by 2020 and to double that figure to 400,000 by 2050.
Also in press was comment by transport minister as to the poor transport infrastructure to DTV, no mention or intention as to the role that Peel & local councils have played (or not
) in their improvement.One thing you can't blame for drop in numbers are the travelling public as they can only use those air services that are put in front of them.
Who mentioned the Titanic ?
According to the Masterplan, the airports targets are in a completely different direction, not chasing passenger numbers. It sees the future as the continuation of the existing routes with modest growth on similar type services, but the main focus will be on developing the site for other purposes (think Kemble, Staverton rather than Newcastle, Bristol).
Not saying the plan is viable, but that's the approach so a discussion on passenger growth and public transport is irrelevant
Not saying the plan is viable, but that's the approach so a discussion on passenger growth and public transport is irrelevant
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Not saying the plan is viable, but that's the approach so a discussion on passenger growth and public transport is irrelevant
(think Kemble, Staverton rather than Newcastle, Bristol).
a discussion on passenger growth and public transport is irrelevant
The master plan
Interesting skyman re the dismantling lot.thought it had been pretty quiet recently.i know they tried to get into Newcastle but were rebuked there.is it airports really don't want that type of business?
Also the medic lot ias seem to spend all there time in and out of Newcastle...can't be too cost effective operating from here.its a good job newcastle have no hangers or that would be the death knell!
So short sighted by Newcastle management thank goodness!!
Also the medic lot ias seem to spend all there time in and out of Newcastle...can't be too cost effective operating from here.its a good job newcastle have no hangers or that would be the death knell!
So short sighted by Newcastle management thank goodness!!
Not much apron or hangar space at Newcastle for dismantling, unless you want to build from scratch.
Really? The plan seems to be to maintain the current "vital economic links" to keep the local politico's sweet, with some organic growth (i.e. bigger planes when KL get rid of the Fk70's and EZE the J41's). Public transport is irrelevant because how do you implement it for 5 departures a day?
Of course it is relevant, its part of the bigger picture, without growth, then pax no.'s will simply fall away, and undermine the whole plan
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One thing you can't blame for drop in numbers are the travelling public as they can only use those air services that are put in front of them.
Public transport is relevant. It can be implemented in the same way as at any other tiny airport elsewhere in Europe - namely a small 15 or 20 seat bus operated by the local bus company at suitable times to meet flights and used on local non-airport bus services the rest of the day. Even the current local bus service to Darlington is something...
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Sycamore
As far as I know they're happy and have plenty in the pipeline.
As for them wanting to get in to Newcastle, or anywhere else for that matter, I know it to be inaccurate as when they were in the midst of that disagreement with Peel during their early days when they were still in Hangar 4, they had opportunities to move in to at least two other airports but didn't because the MD never wanted to be anywhere other than DTVA.
As for them wanting to get in to Newcastle, or anywhere else for that matter, I know it to be inaccurate as when they were in the midst of that disagreement with Peel during their early days when they were still in Hangar 4, they had opportunities to move in to at least two other airports but didn't because the MD never wanted to be anywhere other than DTVA.
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Got to agree with DTV Airport on this, NCL reference is a total "white elephant", their business plan was always to look for suitable development at "air fields" more than airports, to control overheads, NCL would never be economic irrespective of the fact that as it stands there is little space in any event.
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Does the sale of Cardiff Airport signal a return of UK airports to the public sector? - Part 2 | CAPA - Centre for Aviation
Article:
Durham Tees Valley is trying hard to get back on track again by maximising the development potential of the entire site as well as retaining and building on the two remaining key services; the KLM service to Amsterdam and the Eastern Airways flight to Aberdeen.
DTV badly needs a service to London, but would seem unlikely to get one, being sandwiched as it is between British Airways' Heathrow flights at both Leeds Bradford to the south and Newcastle to the north with supporting flights to Gatwick at Newcastle by other carriers.
In Oct-2013 the management rather boldly declared it would no longer accept any charter flights as it attempts to rebrand itself as a business airport to help sustain the local – mainly manufacturing based economy – which has been hard hit by the recession.
Of England’s main airports these are the three that would be perhaps most likely to go back into public sector or part public-private ownership if the alternative was closure. (In the case of Doncaster it would mean entering the public sector for the first time – it was financed and built privately by Peel Holdings, albeit with the assistance of EU funds).
All three are located in manufacturing regions which could reasonably be described as ‘post-industrial’ and which would be even more adversely affected economically if they had no local airport. (A prior example might bePlymouth Airport, which closed two years ago, effectively cutting off parts of the English West Country not only from London but from the European mainland and especially so recently when inclement weather destroyed the main rail line).
Elsewhere in the Peel empire, they are buying under their Intu ownership. New shopping centres costing hundreds of millions, while DTV is being run into the ground.
Intu Properties plc Intu announces asset acquisitions and rights issue - WSJ.com
And they say there is no money around.
Article:
Durham Tees Valley is trying hard to get back on track again by maximising the development potential of the entire site as well as retaining and building on the two remaining key services; the KLM service to Amsterdam and the Eastern Airways flight to Aberdeen.
DTV badly needs a service to London, but would seem unlikely to get one, being sandwiched as it is between British Airways' Heathrow flights at both Leeds Bradford to the south and Newcastle to the north with supporting flights to Gatwick at Newcastle by other carriers.
In Oct-2013 the management rather boldly declared it would no longer accept any charter flights as it attempts to rebrand itself as a business airport to help sustain the local – mainly manufacturing based economy – which has been hard hit by the recession.
Of England’s main airports these are the three that would be perhaps most likely to go back into public sector or part public-private ownership if the alternative was closure. (In the case of Doncaster it would mean entering the public sector for the first time – it was financed and built privately by Peel Holdings, albeit with the assistance of EU funds).
All three are located in manufacturing regions which could reasonably be described as ‘post-industrial’ and which would be even more adversely affected economically if they had no local airport. (A prior example might bePlymouth Airport, which closed two years ago, effectively cutting off parts of the English West Country not only from London but from the European mainland and especially so recently when inclement weather destroyed the main rail line).
Elsewhere in the Peel empire, they are buying under their Intu ownership. New shopping centres costing hundreds of millions, while DTV is being run into the ground.
Intu Properties plc Intu announces asset acquisitions and rights issue - WSJ.com
And they say there is no money around.
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And they say there is no money around.