DURHAM TEES VALLEY AIRPORT - 5
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800 million richer
This guy must have had a good contact at the councils when picked up the place for £500k. According to Forbes he's now $800m richer than he used to be.
Surely he could be using a piece of that personal pie to sort DTV out?
John Whittaker - Forbes
Surely he could be using a piece of that personal pie to sort DTV out?
John Whittaker - Forbes
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Oh dear
Oh dear, things must be bad, as I find myself agreeing with a Beafer post!
Seriously, the very question I mentioned is there along with another valid point about the buy back in 2012.
I rationalise the opinions based on two different groups of people. Firstly, DTV Airport backs firmly the local management. I agree with him 100%. The local management are doing their best in the face of extreme adversity, limited resources and a difficult market. The problem though isn't really with the local management, it has been with the owners.
Seriously, the very question I mentioned is there along with another valid point about the buy back in 2012.
I rationalise the opinions based on two different groups of people. Firstly, DTV Airport backs firmly the local management. I agree with him 100%. The local management are doing their best in the face of extreme adversity, limited resources and a difficult market. The problem though isn't really with the local management, it has been with the owners.
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Why can't people see past holiday flights?? Yes they would be nice, but there is so much more to airports than that.
In other news.....
Look, the local management are irrelevant, it appears that at a strategic level, way above their pay scale, they have been set up to fail. This is a classic managed run down, and it matters not one jot how many true believers keep the faith, this is a business in a death spiral. The local "team" do as they are told, keep the spin machine whirling with "jam tomorrow" nonsense. DTVAirport, it's very good to support one's local airport but you have gone over to a very odd place now. You should know, you really are now defending the frankly absurd and indefensible. It's not enough shooing away potential customers, you are now ATTACKING them for being stupid. Is there anyone alive up there with the beginnings of any understanding of customer behaviour and marketing? Anyone?
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If an airline operated from DTV to Southend, then anyone travelling from Darlington or Middlesbrough to London would almost certainly just take the train instead.
The train from either of these stations to London takes no more than 3h01 minutes and runs every hour - a flight from DTV to Southend cannot possibly compete on frequency, door-to-door-time, cost or on general comfort (i/e. relatively uninterrupted journey with space for work).
If a route from DTV to Southend were to exist, it would have to be for people travelling specifically to/from south Essex rather than central London. Perhaps there are enough to fill an Eastern J41, but the passengers probably wouldn't be willing to pay Eastern's high fares compared to the train.
The train from either of these stations to London takes no more than 3h01 minutes and runs every hour - a flight from DTV to Southend cannot possibly compete on frequency, door-to-door-time, cost or on general comfort (i/e. relatively uninterrupted journey with space for work).
If a route from DTV to Southend were to exist, it would have to be for people travelling specifically to/from south Essex rather than central London. Perhaps there are enough to fill an Eastern J41, but the passengers probably wouldn't be willing to pay Eastern's high fares compared to the train.
But, it ain't going to happen, unless and until LHR has a third rwy and/or oil is discovered or large scale fracking starts in Durham and/or the North Riding. Regretably, neither is likely in the forseeable, as an LHR link would change MME's fortunes.
or oil is discovered or large scale fracking starts in Durham and/or the North Riding.
And being serious, what would LHR give that AMS doesn't?
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And being serious, what would LHR give that AMS doesn't?
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A lot more hassle, frustation etc. Give me AMS any time. we voud to never used LHR again.
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A lot more hassle, frustation etc. Give me AMS any time. we voud to never used LHR again.
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Surely, "What would a LHR route bring in addition to AMS?" is the better question?
1) more passenngers
2) increased revenue
3) more daily movements
4) increased competition and consumer choice
It's never gonna happen sadly. The market's gone elsewhere.
1) more passenngers
2) increased revenue
3) more daily movements
4) increased competition and consumer choice
It's never gonna happen sadly. The market's gone elsewhere.
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Echo
Yes, these people wanting to go on holiday from their local airport, why don't they realise there is soooo much more to airports. Golly I wish they would stop complaining and just shoosh.
In other news.....
Look, the local management are irrelevant, it appears that at a strategic level, way above their pay scale, they have been set up to fail. This is a classic managed run down, and it matters not one jot how many true believers keep the faith, this is a business in a death spiral. The local "team" do as they are told, keep the spin machine whirling with "jam tomorrow" nonsense. DTVAirport, it's very good to support one's local airport but you have gone over to a very odd place now. You should know, you really are now defending the frankly absurd and indefensible. It's not enough shooing away potential customers, you are now ATTACKING them for being stupid. Is there anyone alive up there with the beginnings of any understanding of customer behaviour and marketing? Anyone?
In other news.....
Look, the local management are irrelevant, it appears that at a strategic level, way above their pay scale, they have been set up to fail. This is a classic managed run down, and it matters not one jot how many true believers keep the faith, this is a business in a death spiral. The local "team" do as they are told, keep the spin machine whirling with "jam tomorrow" nonsense. DTVAirport, it's very good to support one's local airport but you have gone over to a very odd place now. You should know, you really are now defending the frankly absurd and indefensible. It's not enough shooing away potential customers, you are now ATTACKING them for being stupid. Is there anyone alive up there with the beginnings of any understanding of customer behaviour and marketing? Anyone?
Peel themselves are on record as saying previous incarnations of their company had an ulterior motive for the airport.
Jersey flight on summer Saturdays retimed to be about an hour later
If you were running a small business and looking for light industrial or office space to rent close to an airport so that you could reach customers and export your firm's products easily.... would you choose DTV with just 2 air routes or would you choose NCL with lots of air routes ?
If you were running a small business and looking for light industrial or office space to rent close to an airport so that you could reach customers and export your firm's products easily.... would you choose DTV with just 2 air routes or would you choose NCL with lots of air routes ?
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 24th Feb 2014 at 12:52.
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Ref Clr Cook et al.
A couple of technical points, the 11% minority aggregate holding by the various council's is only down to their own earlier ineptness in allowing themselves to be out manoeuvred by Peel in a call on further capital injection.
As for the £20M loss, then Peel would no doubt claim that their continued support in funding the airports continued losses on an annual basis justifiably qualifies. To just add up expenditure on tangible assets is perhaps a little naïve.
What does not cease to amaze me is the almost "hush" environment concerning detail / quantum of the BMI payment. This was of course disclosed on the airports statutory filed accounts, as Peel had little choice, though Peel would seem to deflect any enquiries as to why it also was simply "trousered" as additional revenue in that financial year which resulted in a previously unheard of operating profit in that year.
It is unfortunately not a simple task to take an aggregate view of the total loss of the airport over the period of Peels control, due to changing accounting formats, holding companies, internal charges etc. However in accepting that the £20M was injected by the Peel Group then one is effectively neutralised as to questioning this matter further.
In conclusion then without some new relevant evidence, of any "wrong doing" (Note clever corporate structures and manoeuvers can be perfectly legal !), then nothing is going to change.
Time to move on ?
A couple of technical points, the 11% minority aggregate holding by the various council's is only down to their own earlier ineptness in allowing themselves to be out manoeuvred by Peel in a call on further capital injection.
As for the £20M loss, then Peel would no doubt claim that their continued support in funding the airports continued losses on an annual basis justifiably qualifies. To just add up expenditure on tangible assets is perhaps a little naïve.
What does not cease to amaze me is the almost "hush" environment concerning detail / quantum of the BMI payment. This was of course disclosed on the airports statutory filed accounts, as Peel had little choice, though Peel would seem to deflect any enquiries as to why it also was simply "trousered" as additional revenue in that financial year which resulted in a previously unheard of operating profit in that year.
It is unfortunately not a simple task to take an aggregate view of the total loss of the airport over the period of Peels control, due to changing accounting formats, holding companies, internal charges etc. However in accepting that the £20M was injected by the Peel Group then one is effectively neutralised as to questioning this matter further.
In conclusion then without some new relevant evidence, of any "wrong doing" (Note clever corporate structures and manoeuvers can be perfectly legal !), then nothing is going to change.
Time to move on ?
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Originally Posted by Northbound A1
If they can do it why can't Peel at DTV????
The words 'business diversification' stick out from that link, I haven't looked at their plans in any detail but it sounds all too familiar, I wonder if NCL feel there's something to what Peel are trying to achieve here, then again it's nothing new, as others have pointed out it's something every airport is doing, difference being no-one accuses the others of a hidden agenda
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Canadian Lancaster to UK this coming August
To digress from the current 'survival' talk, can we persuade Peel to link in with this 
RAF BBMF To Host Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum Lancaster During Visit To England
PZU - Out of Africa (Retired)
RAF BBMF To Host Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum Lancaster During Visit To England
PZU - Out of Africa (Retired)
Skydiving company to operate from Durham Tees Valley Airport (From The Northern Echo)
But will it affect the sale of executive homes?
The airport’s chief executive Andy Foulds said the new enterprise will not interfere with existing operations
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I'm surprised Beefer didn't pick up on this bit...
So Peel really are running the country??
Delegation of local politicians went to Westminster to hold talks with DTVA owner Peel Group about recently published airport masterplan
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Beafer
General rule of thumb (excl land cost), build three & the fourth is free...Or putting it another way build four & you will have recovered your costs following the sale of the third.
Unsure what relevance this has
Apologies to all.
How much profit do builders normally make on the type of houses planned?
Unsure what relevance this has
Apologies to all.
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Originally Posted by Beafer
just getting a handle on how much the house deal is worth to the Airport or should that be Peel HQ?
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Newmarket holidays
I see that there are to be 2 flights this summer with Newmarket Holidays to Italy - Can someone explain why these flights are ok to go ahead but the Thomson flights were loss making for the airport - would 2 random flights not make more of a loss (for the airport, as they would have to have more staff just for the 2 flights) rather than 2 regular weekly flights?
If it is down to size of aircraft, the Newmarket Holiday flights are normally 737-300 sized aircraft - so if the airport is ok to accept these flights could they not have talked to Thomson to see if they could use these smaller sized aircraft rather than 737-800's?
If it is down to size of aircraft, the Newmarket Holiday flights are normally 737-300 sized aircraft - so if the airport is ok to accept these flights could they not have talked to Thomson to see if they could use these smaller sized aircraft rather than 737-800's?