Wikiposts
Search
Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

NEWCASTLE - 8

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 17th Aug 2009, 14:13
  #741 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Jamesair - just to pick ip on your earlier point yes the privious CEO did move to LBA, I wont mention his name as it always seems to cause a fair amout of abuse. However what he did for the airport was tremendous under his management the airport grew and we gained Emirates, Easyjet, a few Ryanair services and Jet2. Once he left and DL took charge weve gained nothing and lost a great deal he has failed royaly in his job and I would point out again, that in my opinion, he is just not up to the job.

On the issue of Ryanair they do appear to like to use NCL as a 'aircraft filler' for a season or so then move on somewhere else. Both Oslo and Milan had very good loads despite bad flight times. Milan near its end was especially bad when it came to flight timings. So I belive a few routes from Ryanair would work.

On the subject of Easyjet the loads again were good to the likes of Berlin, until has been mentioned they started messing around with times and if a delay appeared in the timetable then Berlin was the route that got the aircraft pulled. I personally had this happen to me on a couple of occasions. With Prague the route was one of the first for Easyjet from NCL and did well from the start and still pulled in good pax figures up to the end. I believe that a less frequent service of 2 or 3 times per week would work. Another route which no one has mentioned is Budapest, Easyjet only gave this one a season and no time for the route to grow I seem to recall good pax figures despite apalling flight times.

No doubt as to where the big hole is in the NCL route network thats France, Germany and the growing economies of Eastern Europe especially Poland. With reagrds to Krakow I believe that Easyjet learned from Ryanair on this one and only did the Krakow route to drive Jet2 off the route and once they had then pulled the route. I can't believe the demand simply dried up in one season.

However the main cause for decline seems to be the airport managements inability to sell the advantages of the airport to airlines. While we are under difficult times during the current recession the decline at NCL seems to be gathering pace and I can't see any light at the end of the tunnel.
ncleflights is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2009, 15:09
  #742 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 1,977
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
FR @ MAN

Looks like that ryanair are to pull all routes from manchester apart from dublin
To other airports ema,lpl and lba. This is because of the airport charges!!

Maybe ncl can have the bgy route back now!!!
Only wishing
HH6702 is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2009, 15:23
  #743 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: England
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
nclflights - I dont think things are quite as bad as you see them, we are suffering a similar decline as per other regionals. I cant comment on the competence of management though as Im not that close to airport ops but the problem is not NCL specific. Just look at MME for some real problems.

On the route side of things the Budapest certainly ran for more than one season but I think the problem with the eastern destinations is that once evryone in the catchment has done their weekend there the load factors will start to drop off. Saying that the PRG route must have ran for 5yrs+.

Given that we have lost BUD, SXF KRK & PRG (+Hannover shortly) there must be opportunitues for short break destinations in europe. The key is, as others have pointed out is frequency and times, the load factors on the ryanair GRO service and the BGY certainly suffered as a result of unsocial times and then the route was pulled. Same story with Krakow in the end resulting in only a Friday and a Sunday for a weekend away if I recall.

As I have said earlier my money is on Jet2, whom I understand to be nervous about the Ryanair expansion at LBA shifting capacity to NCL to pick up some new routes in the new year. We will see.
neil_2008 is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2009, 16:05
  #744 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: 41,000'
Posts: 346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
As I mentioned on another thread, latest Jet2 rumor from those based at LBA is for 2 x 757's for S10 at NCL with 5 new routes. Not sure which but North Africa and Greek Island routes are the most commonly mentioned.

New routes from MAN added today, Las Palmas, Kos and Venice for S10.
757 Speedbrakes is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2009, 18:04
  #745 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Jet2 2010

Goldtrail holidays are selling the following flights for Summer 2010

Mon CFU ETD0830 ETA1730 EXS526/7
Tues HER ETD08:30 ETA17:30 EXS756/7
Wed KGS ETD08:30 ETA17:30 EXS416/7
Wed RHO ETD08:30 ETA17:30 EXS264/5

Seems to me KGS & HER are two of the rumoured new routes, also could suggest 2x757 as both flights depart at the same time on a Wednesday, however these are provisional times and are subject to change.

They also have the following schedules on sale for 2010

Ibiza (Fri & Sun)
Mahon (Sat)
Palma (Daily)
Malaga (Mon, Thur, Sat & Sun)
Murcia (Daily)

On a Wednesdays, the PMI departs at 07:25 and the MJV at 11:00, so if the times stay the same (if...) then there will be a requirement for 4 aircraft on Wednesdays so far (RHO, KGS, PMI & MJV).

Appreciate things can change but this is the current state of play.

Cheers

Kev
Kev 1 is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2009, 18:13
  #746 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 617
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
LHR Messing with schedules

Looks as if the decline is now coming on the BA LHR route. I posted a while ago that the last inbound and outbound to/from LHR are cancelled in Nov and Dec, as well as midday daily reductions this month and last May.

Now in Jan its also down to 5 daily. During Jan after the 9.20am to LHR the next one is nearly 6 hrs later at 15.05.
Coming from LHR after the first 07.25 departure the next one is not until 12.45 over 5 hrs later.
Hardly a good schedule.
I suspect this will also happen from Feb onwards as BA slowly ammend the schedule.

This is despite recent growth on the route, a rare thing these days.

So if the pax nos are down, the route is cut or if the numbers are up the route is also cut!!.

Edit. seems the schedule varys in Jan/early Feb some days the midday service is missing, some days its the last flight ?.

Last edited by fl dutchman; 17th Aug 2009 at 21:49.
fl dutchman is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2009, 18:43
  #747 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: England
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Just had it from a good source Jet2 will announce 8 new routes from Newcastle for next season. Press conference next week by all accounts.
neil_2008 is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2009, 19:18
  #748 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: the lonely desert
Posts: 848
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Jet2

So thats HER and KGS new routes, which is the whispers are to be believed leaves 6 to be announced. My guesses are going with VCE, France/Germany, Toronto (to replace TS) and possibly the likes of LCA, PFO or summer services to ACE, LPA etc. Good for Jet2, NCL is a good mix for sunshine mediterranean destinations.

On a separate note, anyone know why TS are pulling NCL after so many years? Flights always seem busy and many seats are bought out by tour operators, as well as direct sales?
transwede is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2009, 22:19
  #749 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 617
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Another cutback ?

NCL-AMS down to 3 X Daily for the winter !!. ( no busy mid morning dep from NCL??)

So thats significant frequency reductions on two of Newcastle's busiest routes. AMS and LHR.

However at the moment AMS showing back to 5 daily from next summer schedule.

EDIT. Looking at aircraft types on AMS there is roughly the same amount of seats available as during summer but with reduced frequency. Unfortunatley the timings could be better. I cannot understand the removal of the mid morning flight to AMS as it is very popular and convenient for onward connections.

The people of NCL are not going to have good connections this winter.

Last edited by fl dutchman; 17th Aug 2009 at 22:46.
fl dutchman is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2009, 07:49
  #750 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dubai and Sunderland
Posts: 818
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Just thought I would add my pennies worth with regard to the NCL knockers.
The airline business is not all about numbers of passengers it is about seat factor and yield. Just because the passenger numbers could be high does not mean that an airline will make money if it cannot get a yield and seat factor which cover its costs. It has to get the right mix of seat factor and yield for it to work.
We are in the middle of the worst recession that the airline and airport industry has ever had to deal with – Newcastle’s passenger figure declines are quite respectable in this context – yes routes have been lost and frequencies reduced but this is a result of necessary action by the airlines. Many of them fighting for their survival.
The statistics for the CAA will become available for July and it will be interesting to see how Newcastle compares with other UK airports. In June Newcastle was -9.3%. Belfast International was -14.6%, Blackpool -23.1%, Bournemouth -11.2%, Bristol -11.6%, Cardiff -17.7%, Durham Tees Valley -58.2%, East Midlands -16.4%, Exeter 19.5%, Humberside -32.2%, Leeds/Bradford -10.9%, Liverpool -12.5%, London City -14.3%, Luton -9.7%, Manchester -13.1%, Newquay -18.1%, Norwich -24.0%, Prestwick -26.3%, Stansted -11.5%. A number of these airports enjoy a significant Ryanair presence but are nursing bigger losses than Newcastle. Does that not tell you something? Yes, Leeds/Bradford now has a two aircraft Ryanair base and is claiming this will add 1,000,000 passengers a year to Leeds’s numbers. Well, in the short term it might be able to do that but long term? No way. The UK low cost market is over saturated with capacity and all that the Leeds Ryanair base will do is move passengers around – they will gain some from jet2.com and Manchester and other airports but these will not be new passengers they will be existing passengers and that will mean other airlines will have to cut back to bring supply and demand back into balance – see point above. Winter 2010-11 will see Ryanair operating to the Canaries from Leeds/Bradford – that will not be a positive thing for jet2.com and Thomas Cook, that’s for sure, as all that capacity will be unsustainable long term.
Suggesting that the current CEO is not up to scratch is so far off the mark as to be laughable. Did the previous CEO deliver Dubai? He may have been CEO and he may have been present at the odd meeting or two but the current CEO and his team worked far harder on it, have no doubt about that. Who secured the only additional based aircraft from Thomas Cook this summer? The current CEO and his team. Which airport is campaigning the hardest on the issue of APD increases? – the doubling of which in November 2007 had a disastrous effect upon demand from Newcastle and caused easyjet to cut its capacity? The current CEO and his team.
The airport has been successful in attracting a wide spread of carriers and while the route network is not as wide as anyone would like it to be, it is not for want of trying by the airport. However, they are at the hands of airlines who have the most moveable asset in the world and they will only deploy these resources at Newcastle if that will provide the best return for them. If all the people of the North East want are bucket and spade routes then that is what will be provided. If they want to soak up the cultural experiences that Europe has to offer then that will strengthen the case for routes to major European cities as will a strong desire for travel inbound to the North East but why should someone travel to Newcastle from Europe if they can visit a number of other cities which offer a far richer experience for them? Hannover by the way has worked because of British Forces traffic underpinning the route.
The delay in the CAA figures being available could be down to it being the holiday period. Describing their absence as ‘shoddy work’ is incorrect. Wiktionary gives the following definition for shoddy: exhibiting poor quality, workmanship, design, or construction. Rather than criticise the airport for their absence it might be better to reflect on Newcastle being an airport which is doing its best to provide the North East of England with a sustainable range of services given the region never gets dealt a hand full of aces. If you are picking at the ‘routes tree’ the lowest hanging fruit rarely has Newcastle on it and even more rarely has Durham Tees Valley on it. It does though have an amazing number of scheduled airlines for an airport of its size in the UK
10 DME ARC is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2009, 09:45
  #751 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: UK
Age: 52
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
10 DME ARC - Your pennies worth was money well spent. I agree entirely with everything you've had to say in your post.

I really can't understand nclflights logic blaming the airport managment's inability to sell the advantages to the airlines - what is that assumption based on?? He obviously has something against the management team, which I personally think do an outstanding job given the current economic climate and the constraints that brings. It's sad he's so bitter and twisted, and even more sadder is if he's a Company employee.
Aquarius Lad is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2009, 10:14
  #752 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 617
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
10 DME ARC

Excellent post.

I think the monthly decline in pax nos although "respectable" now when compared to some others as you point out, seemed to begin earlier at NCL than many other airports. Those airports seem to be catching up now though.
Although winter 2009/10 is not looking good at the moment with some frequency reductions ( still cant understand the logic in the KL schedule). Summer 2010 has some positives, ie the charter programme and if the rumours are correct Jet 2 expansion.
fl dutchman is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2009, 11:35
  #753 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 205
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
10 DME ARC

Agree with everything you have said.

Ops Guy is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2009, 12:00
  #754 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Here
Posts: 711
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Good post 10d
CentreFix25 is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2009, 12:35
  #755 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
10 DME ARC -your stats would be intersting if they weren't distorted by the fact that NCL is starting at a far lower point than many of the airports you quoted. NCL Airports decline started far earlier than the likes of Bristol and Liverpool for example who continued to expand at a time when NCL rcontracted. This fact therefore distorts the true picture.

While its fine to blame the worst recession in the airline industry it must be worth bearing in mind that the decine here at NCL started way before the recession started. The same can not be said of several of the other airports quoted in the stats

I also feel that you may well be over exagerating the current managements contribution to the arrival of Emirates this along with the arrival of easyjet and jet2 was due to a large extent down to the work and guidance of Mr P and the previous regime.

However I do agree 100% with your point about Ryanair moving into Leeds

Aquarius Lad - my assumption is based on the poor state of affairs currently at NCL. A further example of the state of affairs is that I understand that a decision will be made shortly on whether to further delay the opening of the new airport hotel. The main reason is the severe drop in pax numbers at the airport and questions as to whether it can fill sufficient beds to make opening it worthwhile as opposed to continuing to keep the project mothballed.

Finally, neither am I bitter and twisted. I was unaware that to question the managements ability of an airport that I love and want to succeed would lead to personal abuse from a fellow pruner. We live in a democracy and are entitled to question any part of society that is not working whether we work for them of not. By your standards anyone that does so is bitter and twisted. Likewise I welcome any constructive debate on the subject but lets keep the comments grown up. Personal attacks and name calling belong in the playground AL.
ncleflights is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2009, 14:18
  #756 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 617
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
New Airport Hotel

Has it been decided what brand will run the new hotel when it eventually opens?. Heard some time ago Hilton was involved.

AIRPORT STATISTICS.

From the June CAA prov stats these figures are based on a 12 month passenger rolling total so perhaps present a more realistic picture than a monthly snapshot. ( hope I have copied them correctly)

BHX +0.4
EDI -2.5
LHR -3.0
BFS -7.1
LBA -7.8
BRS -8.1
LGW -8.2
LPL -9.4
MAN -9.6
STN -10.5
NCL -11.6
CWL -12.5
EXE -14.7
BLK -23.3
MME -35.5 % change

Last time NCL recorded a monthly growth was I believe OCT 2007, +3%. The following month I think was when Easyjet went from 7 to 5 aircraft with NOV 2007 showing a minus 7% drop then a decline each subsequent month thereafter. ( CAA stats )

Last edited by fl dutchman; 18th Aug 2009 at 22:05.
fl dutchman is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2009, 16:24
  #757 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: London/Newcastle
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
depressing reading for NCL ..

but as for MME .. ouch !!
maxtoon is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2009, 20:00
  #758 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 1,977
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Easyjet and jet2

Good news if jet2 rumours of an extra aircraft and upto 8 new routes.

I think that we will see more from easyjet for next summer.
As ncl will be an all airbus base by novmember the airport can now bid for extra aircraft and i think that we will have a god chance of getting them.

Also the manangment have done a good job at getting tcx 3rd aircraft this summer as this was a result of xla going under and they went last september so talks started then, so MR P would have had nothing to do with this!!

Hopefully next summer will be the turning point and we will see loads of new routes and extra flights compared to this summer.
HH6702 is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2009, 16:16
  #759 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: the lonely desert
Posts: 848
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
As has been already said, new routes, increase in frequency etc only if,

a) economy turns around and
b) only if the new route is profitable for the operator, be in tour operator or airline.

Already some cuts have been announced for next summer, and yes some expansion, however I still feel as though some carriers will be a little cautious. It may take a few years to get back to where we were this time 2 years ago.
transwede is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2009, 17:05
  #760 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dubai and Sunderland
Posts: 818
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
ncleflights yes the decline at Newcastle did start earlier and it was a result of the government's decision to increase APD having a particularly significant impact on marginal low cost domestic routes such as STN, BRS, BFS and some European routes. Yes, if the analysis is undertaken on a two year basis is does currently show Newcastle in a worse light than most airports. However, it is now performing better than many of the other airports in very difficult trading conditions and with a much smaller and less affluent natural catchment area than some other airports enjoy. The current management team appear to be steering the airport to a path of sustainable growth unlike the previous CEO who was only interested in building passenger numbers which were plainly unsustainable as it is the airlines which dictate which services they start and they finish. If they were sustainable they would still be there!
10 DME ARC is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.