NEWCASTLE - 8
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Can anyone else recall a summer only ATA flight from NCL-JFK? Think it lasted only one summer?
And what about Caledonians A320 GLA-NCL-Turkey-Amman(??)-Goa abnd v.v. flight?
And what about Caledonians A320 GLA-NCL-Turkey-Amman(??)-Goa abnd v.v. flight?
Join Date: Jan 2009
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RE: Ops Guy
You are a hell of a tease!
I heard through the grapevine (rightly or wrongly) on VERY second hand information about the EK 777 a few months back. My source wasn't exactly... "in the know" but certainly had no reason to be doubted either.
Same source also suggested (without substantial evidence I must add) that EK had ambitions on the UK-transatlantic market, and saw its development of its Dubai-UK routes as a stepping stone to further development.
Emirates has ploughed money into NCL, "Emirates Tower", the airbridge (stand 9?), its chaufeur service... its BLATENT preferential ATC treatment.... its here for the long term...
So here is my two cents.... DXB-USA... via NCL (Birmingham and Glasgow?) is planned once fuel prices (and/or exchange rates) drop to a tolerable level. It will market a direct A380 DXB-NYC at a premium price, but offer a "lowcost" option via the UK regions.
NCL-DXB is already working well (as is BHX-DXB, GLA-DXB)
NCL-USA is a completely untapped market
Remember Emirates is nothing to do with any major alliance, so its future relies on it looking for niches... there IS a niche for transatlantic flights from NCL, and neither Star Alliance, Oneworld or Skyteam looks like filling it...
EK 777, DXB-NCL-JFK????
Watch this space!
You are a hell of a tease!
I heard through the grapevine (rightly or wrongly) on VERY second hand information about the EK 777 a few months back. My source wasn't exactly... "in the know" but certainly had no reason to be doubted either.
Same source also suggested (without substantial evidence I must add) that EK had ambitions on the UK-transatlantic market, and saw its development of its Dubai-UK routes as a stepping stone to further development.
Emirates has ploughed money into NCL, "Emirates Tower", the airbridge (stand 9?), its chaufeur service... its BLATENT preferential ATC treatment.... its here for the long term...
So here is my two cents.... DXB-USA... via NCL (Birmingham and Glasgow?) is planned once fuel prices (and/or exchange rates) drop to a tolerable level. It will market a direct A380 DXB-NYC at a premium price, but offer a "lowcost" option via the UK regions.
NCL-DXB is already working well (as is BHX-DXB, GLA-DXB)
NCL-USA is a completely untapped market
Remember Emirates is nothing to do with any major alliance, so its future relies on it looking for niches... there IS a niche for transatlantic flights from NCL, and neither Star Alliance, Oneworld or Skyteam looks like filling it...
EK 777, DXB-NCL-JFK????
Watch this space!
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Graham
Didn't AA plan to use older 757's on the NYC-JFK route
I still don't buy the high fuel price excuse, does anyone have any other reason why they announced then ditched the route?
It still amazes me that Southwest haven't decided to try and conquer transatlantic routes yet, couple of cheap second hand 747's....Laker mark II
Didn't AA plan to use older 757's on the NYC-JFK route
I still don't buy the high fuel price excuse, does anyone have any other reason why they announced then ditched the route?
It still amazes me that Southwest haven't decided to try and conquer transatlantic routes yet, couple of cheap second hand 747's....Laker mark II
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NYC & all that goes with it....
It's the same old chestnut resurrected yet again. It's a pity the old thread gone as I posted c.2 years ago that the only real possibility of a commercial service to NYC was to interline via NCL & EK, only to be slated at the suggestion. Going forwards all this creates is fodder for further debate on a tennuous subject that really is going nowhere until there is an ecconomic upturn.
GrahamK Never mind ATA, what about TWA who operated a series of flights for Jetsave to NYC in the 70's with 707's.
Interestingly the observation that these "holiday flights" by either ATA / TWA were successful is difficult to support given that they operated only for short periods. When one puts into context that not only were they operated in the peak holiday period, but at a time when alternatives to NYC were much more limited than now, then it is clear that the market may not be as strong as some suggest and on a commercial basis requires considerable support of business pax & onward connections. Presumably this realisation ultimately deterred AA.
On anther "tack" the choice of existing regional connections to NYC are actually quite good from NCL though whether AMS, CDG or LHR they all have their good & bad points but in the main it is only the extra journey time c.2.5 Hrs that is the real issue.
But I return to the fundamental factor "Choice" & often when I travel I need to be at a particular place & time in the US & at best it may simply be down to good fortune if introduced NCL-JFK offered the best fit. Simply put a majority of travellers to US from NCL will need to make a connection either in Europe or the US to get to their final US destination & NCL-NYC being only one sector, then the percieved market needs to looked at in great detail
It's the same old chestnut resurrected yet again. It's a pity the old thread gone as I posted c.2 years ago that the only real possibility of a commercial service to NYC was to interline via NCL & EK, only to be slated at the suggestion. Going forwards all this creates is fodder for further debate on a tennuous subject that really is going nowhere until there is an ecconomic upturn.
GrahamK Never mind ATA, what about TWA who operated a series of flights for Jetsave to NYC in the 70's with 707's.
Interestingly the observation that these "holiday flights" by either ATA / TWA were successful is difficult to support given that they operated only for short periods. When one puts into context that not only were they operated in the peak holiday period, but at a time when alternatives to NYC were much more limited than now, then it is clear that the market may not be as strong as some suggest and on a commercial basis requires considerable support of business pax & onward connections. Presumably this realisation ultimately deterred AA.
On anther "tack" the choice of existing regional connections to NYC are actually quite good from NCL though whether AMS, CDG or LHR they all have their good & bad points but in the main it is only the extra journey time c.2.5 Hrs that is the real issue.
But I return to the fundamental factor "Choice" & often when I travel I need to be at a particular place & time in the US & at best it may simply be down to good fortune if introduced NCL-JFK offered the best fit. Simply put a majority of travellers to US from NCL will need to make a connection either in Europe or the US to get to their final US destination & NCL-NYC being only one sector, then the percieved market needs to looked at in great detail
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I know AIr Transat had a triangular via Exeter at one point, but that doesnt really count!
Am I the only one who can never ever see EK operating across the pond from NCL, nor operate 777 into NCL?
Everyone working for NIAL who has just had the team brief from the senior management team already know the answer to the question your all asking
There is one major gap in NCL route network - Eastern Europe! I would of thought when EZY dropped their KRK/PRG/BUD, one of the other loco airlines would have stepped in with 3/4 weekly flights, but obviously demand has dried up or airlines would jump at the chance of a profitable route!?
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RTG, what are you smoking?
DXB-NCL-NYC? Get real.
NCL has no hub infrastructure and no chance of attracting it against other established hub businesses.
EK haven't exactly ploughed money in, they have a sponsorship naming deal on the tower and have one gate built. The chaffeur service is a local contractor and they will have had the operators falling over themselves to provide infrastructure for them to just get them here.
DXB-NCL-NYC? Get real.
NCL has no hub infrastructure and no chance of attracting it against other established hub businesses.
EK haven't exactly ploughed money in, they have a sponsorship naming deal on the tower and have one gate built. The chaffeur service is a local contractor and they will have had the operators falling over themselves to provide infrastructure for them to just get them here.
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Transwede,
Perhaps there is some confusion here, or am I reading things incorrectly. The Air transat service is to Toronto not New York.
Ghraham K was right,there was a service to New York several years ago with ATA, American Trans Air or something like that, on a weekly charter during one summer season.
I can not see a direct service to New york at all especially in the current economic climate. I see no benefit over the current one stop services to the US via LHR, LGW, AMS and CDG. Only those ending and starting their journeys at New York would benefit and I dont see the numbers doing that being able to sustain the service.
I am sure that EK will upgrade equipment on the route when things pick up.
Perhaps there is some confusion here, or am I reading things incorrectly. The Air transat service is to Toronto not New York.
Ghraham K was right,there was a service to New York several years ago with ATA, American Trans Air or something like that, on a weekly charter during one summer season.
I can not see a direct service to New york at all especially in the current economic climate. I see no benefit over the current one stop services to the US via LHR, LGW, AMS and CDG. Only those ending and starting their journeys at New York would benefit and I dont see the numbers doing that being able to sustain the service.
I am sure that EK will upgrade equipment on the route when things pick up.
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Not smoking anything, but drinking with a good friend last night had raised the discussion.
it was apparently considered "feasable" at one stage (his words not mine) that perhaps Emirates would look to expand on their regional bases in the UK and it was suggested that a gap in the North American market might be one such logical progression. (of course the state of the industry these days I agree is highly unlikely).
As you said, Newcastle has no hub set up, but then again It wouldnt need much change simply to cope with an extra leg on an A330 flight that already exists. Of course this is fantasy.
I just think that there is a market there. Bristol has in the past (and I think still does) sustained a conenction across the pond!
Finally with regards Air Transat, I wasn't counting that as I was under the impression that it was still a charter. I didn't realise you could actually book seats with them! Its always good to see something that isnt an A320/19 or 737/757 in town! Long may it continue!
RTG!
it was apparently considered "feasable" at one stage (his words not mine) that perhaps Emirates would look to expand on their regional bases in the UK and it was suggested that a gap in the North American market might be one such logical progression. (of course the state of the industry these days I agree is highly unlikely).
As you said, Newcastle has no hub set up, but then again It wouldnt need much change simply to cope with an extra leg on an A330 flight that already exists. Of course this is fantasy.
I just think that there is a market there. Bristol has in the past (and I think still does) sustained a conenction across the pond!
Finally with regards Air Transat, I wasn't counting that as I was under the impression that it was still a charter. I didn't realise you could actually book seats with them! Its always good to see something that isnt an A320/19 or 737/757 in town! Long may it continue!
RTG!
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We have to be realistic about transatlantic flights from NCL. While the UK has always had a close relationship with the USA, and thus a high level of demand for travel between the two countries, things have changed.
There are now more connections between the USA and regional airports across Europe.
For example, DL flies a 757 from JFK to Valencia, Malaga, Edinburgh and Lyon; and a 767 to Pisa and Venice. Let's not forget US Airways, with its Philadelphia hub serving 22 European airports with 757s and 767s. And Delta's Atlanta hub has links to 21, including regional points such as Dusseldorf and Stuttgart. Could a NCL-PHL or -ATL service work instead of a -NYC?
Certainly, CO has the EWR-UK regional market pretty sewn up. If I needed to go to New York from Newcastle, I'd probably avoid the main hubs by taking an EZY to BFS or BRS and CO from there. But, as noted by a previous poster, many UK-US travellers are transfering at hubs and don't mind which hub it is, as long as the transfer is smooth and efficient. That might be the key advantage of a PHL or ATL service over LHR or NYC.
There are now more connections between the USA and regional airports across Europe.
For example, DL flies a 757 from JFK to Valencia, Malaga, Edinburgh and Lyon; and a 767 to Pisa and Venice. Let's not forget US Airways, with its Philadelphia hub serving 22 European airports with 757s and 767s. And Delta's Atlanta hub has links to 21, including regional points such as Dusseldorf and Stuttgart. Could a NCL-PHL or -ATL service work instead of a -NYC?
Certainly, CO has the EWR-UK regional market pretty sewn up. If I needed to go to New York from Newcastle, I'd probably avoid the main hubs by taking an EZY to BFS or BRS and CO from there. But, as noted by a previous poster, many UK-US travellers are transfering at hubs and don't mind which hub it is, as long as the transfer is smooth and efficient. That might be the key advantage of a PHL or ATL service over LHR or NYC.
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constantflyer
Surely you are not serious !
Clearly you haven't attempted such an epic!, all you would create for yourself is potential for mega hassle ! without an interline connection then you have to collect your baggage, re checkin deal with all security twice & pray that your flight is on time or that your connection is not late, else at best you will have plenty time to ponder the rationality, failing that then build in a considerable margin for error on transfer time. I have not even dealt with cost, which almost certainly would be higher.
If I needed to go to New York from Newcastle, I'd probably avoid the main hubs by taking an EZY to BFS or BRS and CO from there.
Clearly you haven't attempted such an epic!, all you would create for yourself is potential for mega hassle ! without an interline connection then you have to collect your baggage, re checkin deal with all security twice & pray that your flight is on time or that your connection is not late, else at best you will have plenty time to ponder the rationality, failing that then build in a considerable margin for error on transfer time. I have not even dealt with cost, which almost certainly would be higher.
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EK
Yes, I agree, plus thats the ups and downs of a scheduled service. It isnt going to be 100 percent all of the time. I have flown on the EK-NCL service 4 times now and 2 of those occasions were complete sell outs, the others were almost there. The business class sales seem to be consistantly good, and the amount of freight they seem to shoehorn into the forward hold is very encouraging. This is where the money lies, economy revenue is just a bonus but not critical. I know you cant be complacent, but I am sure EK dont look at routes short term, they like to build things up gradually. Look at how forward there Australian market has developed over the years. I first flew with them to Melbourne back in 1996, on a A310 with 88 passengers on board!! Some of their routes downunder are now thrice daily! We shall see, most people certainly know they are here, so the marketing has worked. Lets hope the momentum continues.
Its just so refreshing to get back to your local airport, on a widebodied plane, direct! And be through customs and on my way home within an hour of hitting the tarmac...
Its just so refreshing to get back to your local airport, on a widebodied plane, direct! And be through customs and on my way home within an hour of hitting the tarmac...
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NYC Charters in the 80's
Just checked my log from the early 80's and there was a summer charters to JFK using Transamerica DC8's. From memory, as earlier message, the flights only operated for about the three peak summer months.
I personally would have thought that a 3/4 times a week link through Emirates to EWR would work in a similar way that Emirates has been successful eastbound with a business/pleasure mix. I also read recently that Emirates does codeshare with CO on some routes, so it may become feasible once the economic situation improves.
I personally would have thought that a 3/4 times a week link through Emirates to EWR would work in a similar way that Emirates has been successful eastbound with a business/pleasure mix. I also read recently that Emirates does codeshare with CO on some routes, so it may become feasible once the economic situation improves.
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JFK
There was a series (not sure if it made it past one Summer) flown by Trans Ocean with a yellow and black DC-8 in the late 80s early 90s. I have a picture of it vacating 25 at bravo, I'll try and get it posted.
With regard to present day on planet earth we're not going to get a route to NY! - move on it's boring.
With regard to present day on planet earth we're not going to get a route to NY! - move on it's boring.
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Could be reduction due to economic crisis or just operators releasing in small chunks? I would think Toronto will operate, given that it has done for so many years through Globespan Travel and seemed to be successful.
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I've just seen a First Choice c/s go over my house a few minutes ago, but can't see any Thomson Airways taking off from NCL around about 10.20am. Does anyone know if it is operating for another airline?
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Sunshine79
Depending on where you live of course, I believe what you saw was TOM284 (positioning flight to Birmingham) which departed Newcastle at around 10:20 this morning.
This was operated by a FCA B763 (G-OOBL) as this is what has tended to operate the whole NCL long-haul operation so far this summer.
Hope this helps
Kev
This was operated by a FCA B763 (G-OOBL) as this is what has tended to operate the whole NCL long-haul operation so far this summer.
Hope this helps
Kev
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Kev 1, thanks for the info. I've just realised it would have operated the CUN flight, probably only the 2nd or 3rd flight of the season due to the swine flu. I'm in Sunderland and it was flying South-Westerly, just on the border of South Tyneside area.