MANCHESTER - 7
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What could Peel actually do if U2 decided to put, say, 2 more aircraft at MAN?
Take them to court?
Peel: "Your honour, we have in writing a contract between ourselves and easyJet concerning the growth of the carrier at a nearby airport at Manchester. They have broken this my increasing aircraft numbers."
Judge: "Get out..."
If it was anything more than a 'gentleman's agreement,' then the Competition Commission would be all over the two companies like a rash and MAG would certain add the salt.
For it to be set in stone is very illegal whereas there is nothing to prove with a 'gentleman's agreement.'
I'm sure that easyJet will know what they are doing and when the new CEO takes his post, that 'agreement' may go out of the window.
Only time will tell...
Take them to court?
Peel: "Your honour, we have in writing a contract between ourselves and easyJet concerning the growth of the carrier at a nearby airport at Manchester. They have broken this my increasing aircraft numbers."
Judge: "Get out..."
If it was anything more than a 'gentleman's agreement,' then the Competition Commission would be all over the two companies like a rash and MAG would certain add the salt.
For it to be set in stone is very illegal whereas there is nothing to prove with a 'gentleman's agreement.'
I'm sure that easyJet will know what they are doing and when the new CEO takes his post, that 'agreement' may go out of the window.
Only time will tell...
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Cheshire
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What could Peel actually do if U2 decided to put, say, 2 more aircraft at MAN?
Take them to court?
Peel: "Your honour, we have in writing a contract between ourselves and easyJet concerning the growth of the carrier at a nearby airport at Manchester. They have broken this my increasing aircraft numbers."
Judge: "Get out..."
If it was anything more than a 'gentleman's agreement,' then the Competition Commission would be all over the two companies like a rash and MAG would certain add the salt.
For it to be set in stone is very illegal whereas there is nothing to prove with a 'gentleman's agreement.'
I'm sure that easyJet will know what they are doing and when the new CEO takes his post, that 'agreement' may go out of the window.
Only time will tell...
Take them to court?
Peel: "Your honour, we have in writing a contract between ourselves and easyJet concerning the growth of the carrier at a nearby airport at Manchester. They have broken this my increasing aircraft numbers."
Judge: "Get out..."
If it was anything more than a 'gentleman's agreement,' then the Competition Commission would be all over the two companies like a rash and MAG would certain add the salt.
For it to be set in stone is very illegal whereas there is nothing to prove with a 'gentleman's agreement.'
I'm sure that easyJet will know what they are doing and when the new CEO takes his post, that 'agreement' may go out of the window.
Only time will tell...
Join Date: Jan 2004
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In case you guys n gals hadn't noticed, there is a recession on, largely affecting the middle class.
They are exactly the sort of people who buy the travel products and services that are now struggling, whether the airline ticket, the lounge, the car parking or the duty free.
Similarly, businesses are tightening their belts, so business travel budgets will be cut.
Flying is no longer glamorous: it's lengthy, tiring, and complicated (security reqts, US visas, luggage surcharges, distant car parking etc.). By contrast, rail quality has improved (Paris and beyond are now feasible by rail).
There is less demand for bucket and spade leisure, because domestic holidays are now more pleasant, whether in one of our much-improved city centres, or by the seaside.
Just as Berni Inns and Wimpey, once the height of sophistication, have disappeared to be replaced by Pizza Express, Costa, or Frankie and Benny's, so air travel has had its day and will be replaced by Euro or domestic city breaks or leisure in better quality coastal resorts. Ditto Woolworths for Amazon.
People are also more aware of the environmental angle of travelling long distances, regardless of method, and in the short term they've got less money to even afford any travel.
Life is moving on, and cheap and easy air travel with reliable traffic growth is gone forever.
I'm going to Europe for my hols next summer. I'll either get a cheap ferry from Dover, or a cheap train via St Pancras. I won't be flying, because of security hassle, duty free rip-offs, luggage surcharges, travel to/from the airport and of course the environmental issues.
The airport/airline industry is irrelevant to most people. I remember a stat used at MAG once upon a time: most MAN travellers on average use it five times a year. So, ten trips per traveller, divided into 20m pax. That's just 2m unique travellers using MAN. That's about 58m UK people who haven't used it this year. I bet more people used Woolworths on a regular basis, and look what happened there!
It's sad to see the industry curl up and die, but it's happening. In fifty years people will be shocked at the careless and decadent use of air travel, just like people look back now at smoking in restaurants, or smog over London.
They are exactly the sort of people who buy the travel products and services that are now struggling, whether the airline ticket, the lounge, the car parking or the duty free.
Similarly, businesses are tightening their belts, so business travel budgets will be cut.
Flying is no longer glamorous: it's lengthy, tiring, and complicated (security reqts, US visas, luggage surcharges, distant car parking etc.). By contrast, rail quality has improved (Paris and beyond are now feasible by rail).
There is less demand for bucket and spade leisure, because domestic holidays are now more pleasant, whether in one of our much-improved city centres, or by the seaside.
Just as Berni Inns and Wimpey, once the height of sophistication, have disappeared to be replaced by Pizza Express, Costa, or Frankie and Benny's, so air travel has had its day and will be replaced by Euro or domestic city breaks or leisure in better quality coastal resorts. Ditto Woolworths for Amazon.
People are also more aware of the environmental angle of travelling long distances, regardless of method, and in the short term they've got less money to even afford any travel.
Life is moving on, and cheap and easy air travel with reliable traffic growth is gone forever.
I'm going to Europe for my hols next summer. I'll either get a cheap ferry from Dover, or a cheap train via St Pancras. I won't be flying, because of security hassle, duty free rip-offs, luggage surcharges, travel to/from the airport and of course the environmental issues.
The airport/airline industry is irrelevant to most people. I remember a stat used at MAG once upon a time: most MAN travellers on average use it five times a year. So, ten trips per traveller, divided into 20m pax. That's just 2m unique travellers using MAN. That's about 58m UK people who haven't used it this year. I bet more people used Woolworths on a regular basis, and look what happened there!
It's sad to see the industry curl up and die, but it's happening. In fifty years people will be shocked at the careless and decadent use of air travel, just like people look back now at smoking in restaurants, or smog over London.
Lady Lexxington
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He's right about the train though. We did just this out on Monday back on Thursday. What a pleasure it was. Manchester to Disney Paris in six hours, seamless travel, the ability to get up and walk about, potter, not worry about excess baggage charges, yes there was security but it was as simple as 1,2,3 you did have to take coats off, but not shoes or belts, the staff were polite and multilingual. We changed in Lille on the way out, direct back in, and have had experience of eurostar, tgv and virgin over the last week and all in all it was excellent. The trains from London and Lille were bloody fantastic, lots of legroom and wide comfy seats, a buffet car you could stand up in as if in a continental cafe. It knocks flying for six. We worked out the time difference between flying and train and reckoned on around 1/2-1hr in favour of flying (transfers and check in time accounted for), but when you add in the hassle of passing through an airport then the train wins hands down, I say this as current serving airline staff.
cargo terminal
Bagso
re ur commments
Result...Three underused terminals, a second runway which might as well be mothballed... and a cargo centre which is nothing more than a road transport transit hub .
Possibly correct on most points.
Overall performance is pretty grim.
However I would disagree about the cargo centre being nothing more than a road transport transit hub.
Whilst much of the cargo is trucked to and from LHR, and cargo volumes are down,considerable amounts of flown cargo goes through the sheds. For example more than 10000 tonnes ( import and exports according to MAN cargo stats) in November alone.
These figures do not include CX volumes and so the real figure is much higher.
No figures are available for trucked cargo which comes from or goes to another airport but there is no doubt that the cargo volumes whilst down, add "value" to business's at the airport , and they also, of course, provide valuable jobs
Furthermore they are picking up and perhaps should not be treated with disdain
re ur commments
Result...Three underused terminals, a second runway which might as well be mothballed... and a cargo centre which is nothing more than a road transport transit hub .
Possibly correct on most points.
Overall performance is pretty grim.
However I would disagree about the cargo centre being nothing more than a road transport transit hub.
Whilst much of the cargo is trucked to and from LHR, and cargo volumes are down,considerable amounts of flown cargo goes through the sheds. For example more than 10000 tonnes ( import and exports according to MAN cargo stats) in November alone.
These figures do not include CX volumes and so the real figure is much higher.
No figures are available for trucked cargo which comes from or goes to another airport but there is no doubt that the cargo volumes whilst down, add "value" to business's at the airport , and they also, of course, provide valuable jobs
Furthermore they are picking up and perhaps should not be treated with disdain
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Lexity:
I have to travel from Doncaster to Belgium at weekends quite frequently, but after 1600 on the Friday, and can take the East Coast Express/Eurostar to Brussels or Trans-Pennine Express/Citiflyer (VLM) to Antwerp.
Having done both, the latter method wins every time. Both British trains are equally crowded; the legroom in the Eurostar is poor at tables and the buffet dear, the queues at both St Pancras and Brussel Zuid are terrible; this is compared with short queues and check-in times at both T3 and Antwerp, and excellent free service by VLM. Sometimes I have to return by Brussels Airways, but Zaventem is preferable to Brussel Zuid.
You can bring bottles/beer back on the train; but last week I checked what should be a hand-luggage rucksack into the plane hold because I had a special bottle of wine; the staff kindly labelled it 'fragile', and it was on the belt at Manchester five minues after arrival in the luggage hall.
The only problem with the Antwerp flight is that sometimes they seem to get a block booking on the Fokker, which sends the price sky-high. So in March it quotes a return of £215, while the weekends either side are £86. Regretfully I'll have to take the Eurostar that weekend at c.£120.
I have to travel from Doncaster to Belgium at weekends quite frequently, but after 1600 on the Friday, and can take the East Coast Express/Eurostar to Brussels or Trans-Pennine Express/Citiflyer (VLM) to Antwerp.
Having done both, the latter method wins every time. Both British trains are equally crowded; the legroom in the Eurostar is poor at tables and the buffet dear, the queues at both St Pancras and Brussel Zuid are terrible; this is compared with short queues and check-in times at both T3 and Antwerp, and excellent free service by VLM. Sometimes I have to return by Brussels Airways, but Zaventem is preferable to Brussel Zuid.
You can bring bottles/beer back on the train; but last week I checked what should be a hand-luggage rucksack into the plane hold because I had a special bottle of wine; the staff kindly labelled it 'fragile', and it was on the belt at Manchester five minues after arrival in the luggage hall.
The only problem with the Antwerp flight is that sometimes they seem to get a block booking on the Fokker, which sends the price sky-high. So in March it quotes a return of £215, while the weekends either side are £86. Regretfully I'll have to take the Eurostar that weekend at c.£120.
Thread Starter
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"Re Cargo - perhaps should not be treated with disdain"
No not all.....I just wish it was a lot lot more !
We had a brilliant cargo manager who MAG shipped out.... result volumes fell away and whilst we are in a recession the airport mangement can hide under this cover !
Just out of curiosity is traffic (pax or cargo) down at Heathrow ?
Busiest ever july and a 1% increase for Oct 2009 over 2008 !
.....Yes the airline industry is in some turmoil but Manchester traffic is falling off a cliff !
No not all.....I just wish it was a lot lot more !
We had a brilliant cargo manager who MAG shipped out.... result volumes fell away and whilst we are in a recession the airport mangement can hide under this cover !
Just out of curiosity is traffic (pax or cargo) down at Heathrow ?
Busiest ever july and a 1% increase for Oct 2009 over 2008 !
.....Yes the airline industry is in some turmoil but Manchester traffic is falling off a cliff !
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The problem easyJet will have at MAN is capacity, especially for first wave departures.
Monarch on sale for W10-11
cargo
Bagso
Agree with your comment on
"wish there was more"
not sure I do agree with:
"We had a brilliant cargo manager who MAG shipped out.... result volumes fell away and whilst we are in a recession the airport mangement can hide under this cover ! "
I do agree that MAN top team have no real interest in or knowledge about cargo but think the downturn in volumes is due mainly to market forces . However a top notch cargo man who understands the business and who had the full support of the airport management ( that would make a change!) would undoubtedly help.
On the question of Heathrow cargo.
Was definitely down for the first three quarters of the year.
do not know exactly how much but something in the region of 14% I think.
Oct figures rose slightly.. I think there are stats on the BAA web site.
MAN cargo volumes whilst down..and did "fall of the cliff.. but is slowly climbing back up the cliff.
It might also help if we knew how CX were volumes were holding up!!
October figures show cargo increases across seven of BAA's UK airports with London Heathrow up 1.5 per cent to 148,897 tons and London Stansted also increasing 2.9 per cent to 18,125 tons.
October figures show cargo increases across seven of BAA's UK airports with London Heathrow up 1.5 per cent to 148,897 tons and London Stansted also increasing 2.9 per cent to 18,125 tons.
Agree with your comment on
"wish there was more"
not sure I do agree with:
"We had a brilliant cargo manager who MAG shipped out.... result volumes fell away and whilst we are in a recession the airport mangement can hide under this cover ! "
I do agree that MAN top team have no real interest in or knowledge about cargo but think the downturn in volumes is due mainly to market forces . However a top notch cargo man who understands the business and who had the full support of the airport management ( that would make a change!) would undoubtedly help.
On the question of Heathrow cargo.
Was definitely down for the first three quarters of the year.
do not know exactly how much but something in the region of 14% I think.
Oct figures rose slightly.. I think there are stats on the BAA web site.
MAN cargo volumes whilst down..and did "fall of the cliff.. but is slowly climbing back up the cliff.
It might also help if we knew how CX were volumes were holding up!!
October figures show cargo increases across seven of BAA's UK airports with London Heathrow up 1.5 per cent to 148,897 tons and London Stansted also increasing 2.9 per cent to 18,125 tons.
October figures show cargo increases across seven of BAA's UK airports with London Heathrow up 1.5 per cent to 148,897 tons and London Stansted also increasing 2.9 per cent to 18,125 tons.
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Ref Cargo
Hi gsky.
Your knowledge of all matters Cargo a very enlightening, but could you possibly answer two points?
1) Why are the CX figures such a mystery? Do they not publish these?
2) Have you any idea for who (If anybody) is the proposed Super Shed being built for, or is it just an add-on?
Thanks.
And now one for "Mouser". I see that you've posted 243 posts on this Manchester forum, probably all of which decry Man in some form or another, and are normally a waste of space. I do hope that post 244 and on continue in the same vein so that we can all confirm that you are probably one very envious "Spekearian" who longs for something different amongst the Orange or Blue tails that fill JLA. We have wisely got rid of most of our "Harparian" tail themes, but strangely enough MOLs mob have left all previous requests for runway slots on the table for Summer 2010 ! Perhaps they might be ready to pay for what they use? Just hope MA Plc play real hard ball if this is the case?
Over to you
Your knowledge of all matters Cargo a very enlightening, but could you possibly answer two points?
1) Why are the CX figures such a mystery? Do they not publish these?
2) Have you any idea for who (If anybody) is the proposed Super Shed being built for, or is it just an add-on?
Thanks.
And now one for "Mouser". I see that you've posted 243 posts on this Manchester forum, probably all of which decry Man in some form or another, and are normally a waste of space. I do hope that post 244 and on continue in the same vein so that we can all confirm that you are probably one very envious "Spekearian" who longs for something different amongst the Orange or Blue tails that fill JLA. We have wisely got rid of most of our "Harparian" tail themes, but strangely enough MOLs mob have left all previous requests for runway slots on the table for Summer 2010 ! Perhaps they might be ready to pay for what they use? Just hope MA Plc play real hard ball if this is the case?
Over to you
1) Why are the CX figures such a mystery? Do they not publish these?
as I understand it, because they decline so to do..I guess they believe them to be "commercially sensitive" ( and they may well be correct!)
2) Have you any idea for who (If anybody) is the proposed Super Shed being built for, or is it just an add-on?
not a clue.. possibly speculative.
Some guesses at one of the large integrators. but mainly that.. guesses!!
as I understand it, because they decline so to do..I guess they believe them to be "commercially sensitive" ( and they may well be correct!)
2) Have you any idea for who (If anybody) is the proposed Super Shed being built for, or is it just an add-on?
not a clue.. possibly speculative.
Some guesses at one of the large integrators. but mainly that.. guesses!!
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Whilst I cannot give you exact volumes i can tell you that the CX flight into Manchester currently has no available booking space until the 20th, unless of course you are willing to pay nearly double the normal rate so that they can bump somebody elses cargo !!!
During a recent meeting in HKG the cargo Manager advised that Manchester is currently the only destination in Europe that they are looking to possibly expand into at the moment, he also advised that they are looking at they plan's to pull the 74F completely from EGLL and concentrate on EGCC.
During a recent meeting in HKG the cargo Manager advised that Manchester is currently the only destination in Europe that they are looking to possibly expand into at the moment, he also advised that they are looking at they plan's to pull the 74F completely from EGLL and concentrate on EGCC.
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Etihad
Flew in on EY015 this morning from Abu Dhabi. The good news is that the J-class cabin was 100% full. I didn't wander down the back to check loads there, but in all honesty I was expecting the J cabin to be 50% full at best.
Excellent service as always from Etihad. I wish them all the best and hope they can grow the Manchester service in the future.
And congratulations to Ringway management - what a pleasure to pass through T1 this morning. I was out the door within 10 minutes of disembarking the A330.
Excellent service as always from Etihad. I wish them all the best and hope they can grow the Manchester service in the future.
And congratulations to Ringway management - what a pleasure to pass through T1 this morning. I was out the door within 10 minutes of disembarking the A330.
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Etihad would be my next guess for an aircraft change or an increase in frequencies.
They seem to be doing quite well with loads. Obviously we cannot calculate the load between J/Y but I would guess that their front loads will be doing OK at the very least.
Also, the owner's number one play toy is based in the city which has got to help!
They seem to be doing quite well with loads. Obviously we cannot calculate the load between J/Y but I would guess that their front loads will be doing OK at the very least.
Also, the owner's number one play toy is based in the city which has got to help!
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Just to add, came back from China on the 29th and Business was full on the evening EK, again was through and in the car in just over 20 minutes.
The flight down to EGLL was also hassle free, security was a dream at 08.30-hrs, Infact I queued long to get on the A380 at EGLL !!
The flight down to EGLL was also hassle free, security was a dream at 08.30-hrs, Infact I queued long to get on the A380 at EGLL !!