LEEDS 5
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Interesting to see the A310s being downgraded to high capacity economy only config minus business class. Suppose that might offer a lifeline to those marginal routes. When is the 777 starting ?
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Its more likley LBAs first 777 will be a BA aircraft on a weather divertion in winter than a PIA aircraft. They prooved they have no intention of operating a 777 into LBA a few Saturdays ago when the PK 775/6 was a 777-200 and they flew the service to/from MAN. This despite LBA having done the work required to handle the 777s.
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To be fair, I think that certain ground staff need to have specific training in aspects of handling the aircraft. AFAIK this was scheduled but put on hold when PIA last changed their minds, so there would have been no suitable staff to handle a 777 at short notice. For the same reason, I doubt they could take a 777 on diversion. I would be happy to be corrected on this.
On another note, I noticed up at the airport the other day that the SOU flight also had an AF flight number. How long has this been the case?
On another note, I noticed up at the airport the other day that the SOU flight also had an AF flight number. How long has this been the case?
Last edited by BKS Air Transport; 3rd Jun 2013 at 11:48.
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MAN is BA's number one diversion station. But in recent times, you will see that LGW and STN will get more diverts than MAN. The reason for this is that I can only think it is easier to get the passengers as close to London as possible!
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Does anybody have any idea how the BA service is doing.
DEC 12 = 5,500
JAN 13 = 7,763
FEB 13 = 7,598
MAR 13 = 9,996
APR 13 = 9,726
Total = 40,583
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If I've got my sums right that's an average of 49 pax per flight in April, assuming all flights operated so still some way to go before BA consider keeping their "slot warmer" going after the new Long Haul aircraft arrive. Heading in a healthy direction though! 
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Yr a bit out there....
172 sectors in April so 54 / sector on average but I agree with the rest of your post!
The biggest drag on the 'average' is the last southbound which is always quiet.
If if nightstopped and there was thus a 7am southbound we all know the figures wld leap somewhat but its chicken and egg. BA won't nightstop till they see a solid market and I doubt the current numbers are providing that.
It's still doing OK for all that but it does need to do better for sure.
172 sectors in April so 54 / sector on average but I agree with the rest of your post!
The biggest drag on the 'average' is the last southbound which is always quiet.
If if nightstopped and there was thus a 7am southbound we all know the figures wld leap somewhat but its chicken and egg. BA won't nightstop till they see a solid market and I doubt the current numbers are providing that.
It's still doing OK for all that but it does need to do better for sure.
Last edited by Gate 8; 5th Jun 2013 at 12:21.
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An average of 54 passengers per sector tells me that as soon as they need more slots for their 380's or 787's at LHR you can bet that Leeds will feel the pain - then after that NCL
Medium term I can see BA flying to ABZ, EDI & GLA only from LHR
Medium term I can see BA flying to ABZ, EDI & GLA only from LHR
Last edited by Heathrow Harry; 5th Jun 2013 at 16:07.
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Agreed apart from the NCL bit.
NCL gets remarkable loads as do EDI & GLA.
MAN loads are erratic. A lot of people sure but with 11 rotations a day there is plenty of quiet ones amongst them.
Re LBA What is most encouraging is the very high percentage of transfer traffic it generates but there simply aren't enough bums on seats at present.
The operation is proving very reliable now it's in T5 and whilst the schedule is far from perfect I still think it is ok. It's really simple with BA - slots are the scarcest commodity and must be well utilised. The route needs more people backing it than it currently has.
NCL gets remarkable loads as do EDI & GLA.
MAN loads are erratic. A lot of people sure but with 11 rotations a day there is plenty of quiet ones amongst them.
Re LBA What is most encouraging is the very high percentage of transfer traffic it generates but there simply aren't enough bums on seats at present.
The operation is proving very reliable now it's in T5 and whilst the schedule is far from perfect I still think it is ok. It's really simple with BA - slots are the scarcest commodity and must be well utilised. The route needs more people backing it than it currently has.
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OT but as posted here, will answer here:
Erratic? Plenty of quiet ones? Huh? Apart for the last 2 southbounds, and an early afternoon northbound, vast majority of flights leave with over 100 on them, which, with a minimum of 132 seats on the A319, hardly 'quiet' or 'erratic' or any cause for concern. Staff travel is a bloomin nightmare on MAN-LHR-MAN, always someone on waitlist whereas most other domestics are a straight on scenario.
What also helps MAN is the large number of prem and GGL card holders.
Lastly, WW has said MAN will only ever be cut if HS2 shows it can take over the role of the air route, given HS2 is 20+ years away, MAN is quite safe.
But, bums on seats is the issue and why LBA is being monitored, not connections. 54 seats out of 132 is still less than half full, regardless of how many are connecting.
MAN loads are erratic. A lot of people sure but with 11 rotations a day there is plenty of quiet ones amongst them.
What also helps MAN is the large number of prem and GGL card holders.
Lastly, WW has said MAN will only ever be cut if HS2 shows it can take over the role of the air route, given HS2 is 20+ years away, MAN is quite safe.
Re LBA What is most encouraging is the very high percentage of transfer
traffic it generates but there simply aren't enough bums on seats at present.
traffic it generates but there simply aren't enough bums on seats at present.
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I agree re bums on seats and I agree that it isn't doing well enough. All I said was that at least of the, insufficient, pax numbers LBA is generating the majority are heading off further afield which must at least give the route some value to BA.
If it were getting 54 point to point only pax at £60 a pop I suspect its days wld be even more numbered.
I also note a nice few Gold and Silvers on most flights which also surprises me given that BA haven't been flying to Leeds for long.
We will have to disagree on MAN vis a vis hardest domestic to get on on standby. "Most other domestics are straight on normally".... Really? EDI? GLA?
If I were choosing to commute from somewhere purely down to loads I would go live in MAN before any of the other domestic stations right now. Except LBA obviously!
If it were getting 54 point to point only pax at £60 a pop I suspect its days wld be even more numbered.
I also note a nice few Gold and Silvers on most flights which also surprises me given that BA haven't been flying to Leeds for long.
We will have to disagree on MAN vis a vis hardest domestic to get on on standby. "Most other domestics are straight on normally".... Really? EDI? GLA?
If I were choosing to commute from somewhere purely down to loads I would go live in MAN before any of the other domestic stations right now. Except LBA obviously!
Last edited by Gate 8; 5th Jun 2013 at 18:15.
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We will have to disagree on MAN vis a vis hardest domestic to get on on standby.
"Most other domestics are straight on normally".... Really? EDI? GLA?
"Most other domestics are straight on normally".... Really? EDI? GLA?
As for MAN, I didn't say it was the hardest to get on, that crown is taken by NCL, but I have been bumped a few times now, and then some other times having to jump-seat it (Not that Im bothered with 30 minutes flying time)
If I were choosing to commute from somewhere purely down to loads I would go live in MAN before any of the other domestic stations right now. Except LBA obviously
But, anyway, this is the Leeds thread so back onto topic.
Last edited by LAX_LHR; 5th Jun 2013 at 18:37.
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i've flown 6 sectors on LBA-LHR and the typical load has been between 85 to 100. This is usually on the first southbound or last northbound. I did one sector on the final southbound and there was about 30 on board. That was in the middle of Jan, to be fair.
I know they are making a concerted effort to attract interlining to the US which is where the connections work best. Lot's of work going on with the travel trade to promote the US links and LBA took 13 agents out to Chicago last month. The flights are quick, the onboard service is nice enough, T5 is a great facility, the T5 - T5 connections are very simple and overall it's a much more pleasant experience than the M62 - especially when you're heading home.
Challenge is that only 2 of the southbound flights actually connect to anything, with the last flight of the day being a glorified positioner. Because most of the demand is generated at the Leeds end, it ends up with a mismatch. With only 2 viable southbound flights, you don't build the passenger volume to take advantage of 3 viable flights heading North. The first flight North should do much better, connecting as it does to the early morning inbound wave in LHR, but the passengers aren't there because many of the outbound connections from Yorkshire aren't anyway near attractive enough. T5 is nice, but a 5 - 7 hour layover is a big ask and is unattractive to the business market and anyone with a young family.
Despite all this, it's already not a million miles away from matching KLM volumes on LBA-AMS and they have been going at it about 25 years as opposed to 6 months. The evidence so far is that the local market will support flights with attractive connections and will choose other options if the timings don't work. It will be up to BA to decide if they want to make the schedule attractive enough to fix this.
I know they are making a concerted effort to attract interlining to the US which is where the connections work best. Lot's of work going on with the travel trade to promote the US links and LBA took 13 agents out to Chicago last month. The flights are quick, the onboard service is nice enough, T5 is a great facility, the T5 - T5 connections are very simple and overall it's a much more pleasant experience than the M62 - especially when you're heading home.
Challenge is that only 2 of the southbound flights actually connect to anything, with the last flight of the day being a glorified positioner. Because most of the demand is generated at the Leeds end, it ends up with a mismatch. With only 2 viable southbound flights, you don't build the passenger volume to take advantage of 3 viable flights heading North. The first flight North should do much better, connecting as it does to the early morning inbound wave in LHR, but the passengers aren't there because many of the outbound connections from Yorkshire aren't anyway near attractive enough. T5 is nice, but a 5 - 7 hour layover is a big ask and is unattractive to the business market and anyone with a young family.
Despite all this, it's already not a million miles away from matching KLM volumes on LBA-AMS and they have been going at it about 25 years as opposed to 6 months. The evidence so far is that the local market will support flights with attractive connections and will choose other options if the timings don't work. It will be up to BA to decide if they want to make the schedule attractive enough to fix this.
Last edited by 682ft AMSL; 5th Jun 2013 at 21:02.
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There's not much point in buying a load of new heavies if you don't have enough feed to fill them now is there? There's no way of getting LBA into profit without an early LBA-LHR, no way at all. I think that's clear, point to point high yield traffic would need it, the route died on it's backside when BMI switched LHR-LBA/MME to being operated from the London end. However it's not as if BA are exactly expanding the long haul fleet massively either. Has LHR-ICN been a spectacular success? Has anyone yet booked a single seat on LHR-Chengdu? Are BA returning to KUL? It's a very competitve environment out there.