LEEDS 5
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Crooks
I have been thinking about this one for a while now..and yes i do believe that the council are going back on there word...they told the new buyers of the airport, that they would only sell the airport if there was opportunity to grow and develope the airport...re-inforce the infrastructure of the the airport property (buildings, car parks etc)..this of-course can only be done if the proper facilities are in place to deal with un forseen or any potential problems.....the main problem being the roads and lack of rail links!!!!
This can only be granted if the detail plans for the airport are workable..if Bridgepoint have only offered a token gesture of financial support for the road and new rail links..then the council will be obliged to say No to planning...as this tiny and if i am honest, insulting amount of money to help build road and rail links is not re thought by Bridgepoint then further developement of our airport will not go ahead...i guess the local authorities could put their hands in their pockets and pay for the road and rail links, as this should have been done many years ago, the councils refusal to implement those basic things had delayed the development of LBA for many years...if we are not careful..Leeds Bradford Airport will be left too far behind to ever be able to catch up..and other airports,like DSA will take advantage of our delaying tactics......we can spend too much time talking, and not enought time building...LBA needs the roads and rail links, a further extension of the runway and an airline who are brave enought to introduce long haul flights. maybe LBA should look further into Cargo handling too...we have massive potential at this wonderful airport, but it needs acting on now, not in 4/5 years time....
This can only be granted if the detail plans for the airport are workable..if Bridgepoint have only offered a token gesture of financial support for the road and new rail links..then the council will be obliged to say No to planning...as this tiny and if i am honest, insulting amount of money to help build road and rail links is not re thought by Bridgepoint then further developement of our airport will not go ahead...i guess the local authorities could put their hands in their pockets and pay for the road and rail links, as this should have been done many years ago, the councils refusal to implement those basic things had delayed the development of LBA for many years...if we are not careful..Leeds Bradford Airport will be left too far behind to ever be able to catch up..and other airports,like DSA will take advantage of our delaying tactics......we can spend too much time talking, and not enought time building...LBA needs the roads and rail links, a further extension of the runway and an airline who are brave enought to introduce long haul flights. maybe LBA should look further into Cargo handling too...we have massive potential at this wonderful airport, but it needs acting on now, not in 4/5 years time....
Join Date: Sep 2004
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You are missing the point L-Band.
You say the council have a job to do.
The point is,they did not do it for the last 30 years.
Afraid not WAWKRK I think I have made a valid point!
It is people like you who miss the point.
Bridgepoint are only after getting the investment that they have put into this airfield (wouldn't you) and spending millions on a runway which he airfield has no room for, or even on a train to climb that hill up to the terminal is not going to make them money, but putting in more car parking, and providing more room bars, and cafe will so that is why. They have NO intention of putting down a load of concrete for a runway, the present one needs sorting out first.
Please come down of that cloud.
Just my own views!!!
L
You say the council have a job to do.
The point is,they did not do it for the last 30 years.
Afraid not WAWKRK I think I have made a valid point!
It is people like you who miss the point.
Bridgepoint are only after getting the investment that they have put into this airfield (wouldn't you) and spending millions on a runway which he airfield has no room for, or even on a train to climb that hill up to the terminal is not going to make them money, but putting in more car parking, and providing more room bars, and cafe will so that is why. They have NO intention of putting down a load of concrete for a runway, the present one needs sorting out first.
Please come down of that cloud.
Just my own views!!!
L
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You are talking rubbish L-Band, it is still you who is missing the point.
One more time. The sale of the airport was agreed only because the new owners would be allowed to improve the facilities and the new terminal was at the top of the list.
One more time. The sale of the airport was agreed only because the new owners would be allowed to improve the facilities and the new terminal was at the top of the list.
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Flights showing on the Flybe website, and the announcement is now on there too.
The timings on the last flight look a little strange. The flights look as if they originate in LGW, but the last flight of the day there's no return.
Maybe it's something I'm missing?
The timings on the last flight look a little strange. The flights look as if they originate in LGW, but the last flight of the day there's no return.
Maybe it's something I'm missing?
Last edited by NEW-CREW; 20th Apr 2009 at 08:53.
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flybe Gatwick
NEW-CREW
I agree that the timings of the last flight look odd as it in effect
looks like a Leeds based aircraft as the third flight departs Leeds
at 17.05 arriving back at 20.05.
The obvious one would be if it was operated by a Southampton
or Exeter based aircraft on the lines of SOU-LBA-LGW-LBA-SOU.
The SOU flights are almost set up for this but the last time I
looked the last SOU was 20.45 but there was still an inbound at 20.15.
I am sure there will be another flight after the aircraft arrives back
from Gatwick at 20.05 otherwise they will have an aircraft and crews overnighting in Leeds and if you did that your first outbound would be 0700 not 0900 to attract day-trip business pax.
I suspect there will be some timetable adjustments on other routes
to make this fit but still a good result for Leeds.
Pete
I agree that the timings of the last flight look odd as it in effect
looks like a Leeds based aircraft as the third flight departs Leeds
at 17.05 arriving back at 20.05.
The obvious one would be if it was operated by a Southampton
or Exeter based aircraft on the lines of SOU-LBA-LGW-LBA-SOU.
The SOU flights are almost set up for this but the last time I
looked the last SOU was 20.45 but there was still an inbound at 20.15.
I am sure there will be another flight after the aircraft arrives back
from Gatwick at 20.05 otherwise they will have an aircraft and crews overnighting in Leeds and if you did that your first outbound would be 0700 not 0900 to attract day-trip business pax.
I suspect there will be some timetable adjustments on other routes
to make this fit but still a good result for Leeds.
Pete
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The EXT flight continues to ABZ, so unless BE either drop the EXT-ABZ link (which is advertised as a one stop through flight), or re-route it via another airport, I cant see the EXT aircraft being used
So that leaves SOU, or BHD would be another possibility
So that leaves SOU, or BHD would be another possibility
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Night Flights at LBA
I would like to say to those of you who would like all night flying that many residents bought their homes in the 70's as we ourselves did when the largest aircraft was a Britannia 737 that only came into LBA only two or three times a week. Back then noone envisaged that the airport would expand like it did with more flights and noise. We live under the flight path and homes a few yards across the street did get triple glazing, but we didn't as there had to be a cut off point. The noise personally doesn't bother me and i would love to see the airport expand and have more destinations, alot of my neighbours are against it as they were residents in 60's and 70's , some of thhose are elderly with homes paid for and don't want to move.
I am just pointing out to those in favour of all night flying just a couple of points to the other side of the argument. I don't see why some people have said on the forum that if they don't like it, they should move!!! Sometimes it is not that easy but like i mentioned before, i hope more destinations are introduced as i hate having to trek to Manchester for long haul when i have an airport just a few mins drive away!!
I am just pointing out to those in favour of all night flying just a couple of points to the other side of the argument. I don't see why some people have said on the forum that if they don't like it, they should move!!! Sometimes it is not that easy but like i mentioned before, i hope more destinations are introduced as i hate having to trek to Manchester for long haul when i have an airport just a few mins drive away!!
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Tell me L-Band, what do you know about running a business?
I run and own a successful international business covering more than 30 countries,what do you do? Are you one of the thought police or a council parasite?
You also seem to have learning difficulties.
My advice to you, Foxtrot Oscar you moron.
I run and own a successful international business covering more than 30 countries,what do you do? Are you one of the thought police or a council parasite?
You also seem to have learning difficulties.
My advice to you, Foxtrot Oscar you moron.
Future Gloomy
Alas, sadly, any further significant development of LBIA is unlikely.
It is badly sited 682 ft amsl, with a cross prevailing wind runway and runway end safety areas which only just meet the ICAO minimum requirements. Any runway extension would involve massive expense and massive environmental impact. It has arguably the worst weather record of any UK regional airport and any development work eg. apron extension, terminal area development requires considerable earthworks and associated expense. Few airlines have ever been big fans of LBIA and there is still a lack of enthusiasm for ILS Cat ll and Cat lll operations on that shortish, big dipper style, runway.
Add to the above the inadequate road connections which cannot be improved significantly due to the scale of works needed and only a disappointing conclusion can be drawn. The airport has a huge catchment area on the doorstep, the envy of any and every airport, but continued development of the site is unrealistic. Sadly the Leeds planners are right, notwithstanding the fact that they have contributed to the present state of affairs over the past fourty years. Any more vehicles on the narrow roads approaching the airport [from every direction] and the whole of the area will seize up with traffic jams. Not good for other local busineses or residents. Major new roads and rail links, however desirable, are unlikely, due to the capital investment required. The airport owners are not likely to provide the muti-million pound investment required when it is likely that they are only in it for the 'short haul'.
I am no big fan of Doncaster but it is a superb airfiield in terms of its physical characteristics, spacious terminal areas etc; has bags of room for expansion, and needs only a good road connection to the motorway [the motorway being considerably closer than its LBA counterpart].
LBA is pretty shambolic these days and loathed as I am to admit it, has probably reached its zenith when green issues, climate matters, and the continued opposition [prevalent for well over fourty years] are all considered. Remember it was Leeds Council who opposed development for over twenty years, in the days when they were share holders!! Their recent stance in unsurprising.
Sorry to be so negative but I suspect the realistic truth. I hope I am wrong!
Helen
Alas, sadly, any further significant development of LBIA is unlikely.
It is badly sited 682 ft amsl, with a cross prevailing wind runway and runway end safety areas which only just meet the ICAO minimum requirements. Any runway extension would involve massive expense and massive environmental impact. It has arguably the worst weather record of any UK regional airport and any development work eg. apron extension, terminal area development requires considerable earthworks and associated expense. Few airlines have ever been big fans of LBIA and there is still a lack of enthusiasm for ILS Cat ll and Cat lll operations on that shortish, big dipper style, runway.
Add to the above the inadequate road connections which cannot be improved significantly due to the scale of works needed and only a disappointing conclusion can be drawn. The airport has a huge catchment area on the doorstep, the envy of any and every airport, but continued development of the site is unrealistic. Sadly the Leeds planners are right, notwithstanding the fact that they have contributed to the present state of affairs over the past fourty years. Any more vehicles on the narrow roads approaching the airport [from every direction] and the whole of the area will seize up with traffic jams. Not good for other local busineses or residents. Major new roads and rail links, however desirable, are unlikely, due to the capital investment required. The airport owners are not likely to provide the muti-million pound investment required when it is likely that they are only in it for the 'short haul'.
I am no big fan of Doncaster but it is a superb airfiield in terms of its physical characteristics, spacious terminal areas etc; has bags of room for expansion, and needs only a good road connection to the motorway [the motorway being considerably closer than its LBA counterpart].
LBA is pretty shambolic these days and loathed as I am to admit it, has probably reached its zenith when green issues, climate matters, and the continued opposition [prevalent for well over fourty years] are all considered. Remember it was Leeds Council who opposed development for over twenty years, in the days when they were share holders!! Their recent stance in unsurprising.
Sorry to be so negative but I suspect the realistic truth. I hope I am wrong!
Helen
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Helen, you may be right to certain extent but, you cannot round up all the pax and send them to DSA. They fly from their preferred airport.
People make airports not runways.
Many runways are on high ground, Johannesburg springs to mind at 6000ft.
Bristol, slightly less than LBA.Luton also quite high.BHX runway same direction as LBA. I could go on.
Why do you think Flybe have just announced LBA-GWK and not DSA - GWK
What you have said is not new. The fact is,LBA is here to stay love it or leave it. The fact that DSA has more runway does not help. Stansted has more runway than DSA but it is difficult to attract long haul flights.
This point is complete rubbish from the spin doctors.
Long haul flights do not mean lots of 747's. Most long haul these days are on twin engined aircraft like the 757/767.
EMA has a runway like DSA and it is the same there.
The runway at DSA is not long enough for unrestricted long haul.
LBA is shambolic because the councillors who rejected the current extension, are the same ones who created this mess. Now they are saying they are not responsible for the road network and the airport must pay.Beyond belief.
Another case of Yorkshire Backward.
People make airports not runways.
Many runways are on high ground, Johannesburg springs to mind at 6000ft.
Bristol, slightly less than LBA.Luton also quite high.BHX runway same direction as LBA. I could go on.
Why do you think Flybe have just announced LBA-GWK and not DSA - GWK
What you have said is not new. The fact is,LBA is here to stay love it or leave it. The fact that DSA has more runway does not help. Stansted has more runway than DSA but it is difficult to attract long haul flights.
This point is complete rubbish from the spin doctors.
Long haul flights do not mean lots of 747's. Most long haul these days are on twin engined aircraft like the 757/767.
EMA has a runway like DSA and it is the same there.
The runway at DSA is not long enough for unrestricted long haul.
LBA is shambolic because the councillors who rejected the current extension, are the same ones who created this mess. Now they are saying they are not responsible for the road network and the airport must pay.Beyond belief.
Another case of Yorkshire Backward.
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Green issues, climate change and local resident opposition are hardly unique to LBA. Unless there is a unilateral, UK wide policy of surpressing demand for air travel then making judgements from a climate change / green perspective about one airport in isolation is pointless. The demand will simply displace to other airports. Time and time again we've seen that if you squeeze the balloon at LBA (delays to runway extension, night flying caps etc) the demand pops back up at MAN.
So the choice is to either artifically "cap" demand at LBA through some sort of planning mechanism - either refusing the terminal planning application or pegging passenger limits to road/bus/rail improvements - in which case the excess demand will have no choice but to displace West across the M62.
Or, you give the airport the freedom to operate as a commercial business and you give the airlines and passengers free choice about where they want to fly from. If LBA is commercially not viable due operational issues or too troublesome to reach from a passenger perspective, then the growth won't materialise anyway.
In truth, the verdict of the planning office was not one of rejection, it was one of broad support - as reported in some of the less tabloid interpretations of last week's meeting. They obviously want more detail in terms of the transport support the airport will provide and no doubt they will want to hear what their colleagues elsewhere in the council will be doing too on the matter. It's probably a bit early at this stage to suggest there isn't a way forward with the matter.
So the choice is to either artifically "cap" demand at LBA through some sort of planning mechanism - either refusing the terminal planning application or pegging passenger limits to road/bus/rail improvements - in which case the excess demand will have no choice but to displace West across the M62.
Or, you give the airport the freedom to operate as a commercial business and you give the airlines and passengers free choice about where they want to fly from. If LBA is commercially not viable due operational issues or too troublesome to reach from a passenger perspective, then the growth won't materialise anyway.
In truth, the verdict of the planning office was not one of rejection, it was one of broad support - as reported in some of the less tabloid interpretations of last week's meeting. They obviously want more detail in terms of the transport support the airport will provide and no doubt they will want to hear what their colleagues elsewhere in the council will be doing too on the matter. It's probably a bit early at this stage to suggest there isn't a way forward with the matter.
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Rail Link
How much would a rail link cost?
Lets say for arguments sake it is £20 Million.
where would that Money come from
Bridgepoint
WYPTE
Leeds City Council
Bradford City Council
Wakefield City Council
Kirklees Council
Northern Rail/Network Rail
Yorkshire Forward
British Parliament
European Parliament
If each paid towards the building of a rail link it would ease a lot of worrys. Also people living in the Otley,and pool area s could use the train to commute to Leeds which in turn will free up the roads.
Trouble by the time they decide to build the rail link the price would have doubled or even trebled.
Lets say for arguments sake it is £20 Million.
where would that Money come from
Bridgepoint
WYPTE
Leeds City Council
Bradford City Council
Wakefield City Council
Kirklees Council
Northern Rail/Network Rail
Yorkshire Forward
British Parliament
European Parliament
If each paid towards the building of a rail link it would ease a lot of worrys. Also people living in the Otley,and pool area s could use the train to commute to Leeds which in turn will free up the roads.
Trouble by the time they decide to build the rail link the price would have doubled or even trebled.
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well said big T
A very fair point indeed..if they equal out the cost between themselves, then we would all win and benefit from it!!!!! but the rail company could fund the full works....look at Birmingham, they are having a new railway station built near the airport, and the rail company is paying for it...maybe we could get some lottory funding or some help from the European Government!!!!!
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??Environmental impact??
Whats all this environmental impact nonsense anyway....if the people in charge do decide to "cap" passanger numbers from Leeds to cut down on rail...road..and car numbers....then surley these people will only have to travel further to fly to their chosen destination....thus impacting further on the environment because they have to travel further to get to where they are "able" to fly from, which of course means further damage to the environment.....this all leads onto a knock on effect, i.e the more people using the motorway network, more Co2...more vehicle on the roads=more road works= lane closures=delays......surely with all this in mind, we need to get the road and rail links in at Leeds NOW....and it needs doing properly the first time!!!! Ohh yes and a runway extension would be benefitial.....