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Old 11th Aug 2009, 22:15
  #661 (permalink)  
 
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Its swings and roundabouts, Jet2 aircraft are old (and getting older) and even with the best engineers in the world and the part support with it they will go tech more often than a new airframe, on the other hand Jet2 are generous with their luggage allowance compared with Ryanair, but you would be amazed how few pay attenion to that until its too late.

Leeds has long been a cash cow for Jet2 and they have opened Leeds up, but people want low fares and Ryanair don't get much lower, the only way MOL can make use of the massive over supply of seats/airacraft ordered is to see off other airlines and this will hit Jet2 profits.

If the goverment ever grow enough balls to part-privatise the Royal mail then Jet2 will get a bigger shock if DHL become part owner of RM

The selling of seats to other tour operators is all well and good for now, but if they come to rely on that business they will leave themselves further exposed.

Ryanair wil within 18 months probably have more movements in/out of Leeds than Jet2 unless Leeds has a very snow/foggy winter for which LBIA have not invested in, a 40 year old unimog snow plough is not what MOL will expect.

The best Jet2 can do is to be different and drop this one bit of hand luggage nonsense, flying a half full 757 to ALC won't make money and they will never drive their staff cost down to Ryanairs level

Time will tell, but good on Leeds for getting a new player
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Old 12th Aug 2009, 08:59
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Ryanair v Jet 2

Shannon Airport in Ireland did a deal with Ryanair in 2005. Since then BA Regional, Flybe, Easyjet, Thompsonfly and Hapag Loyd Express all left. They even lost Aerlingus to LHR for a while. So watch out Jet2 ! Most people's first loyalty is to their pockets.
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Old 12th Aug 2009, 09:00
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Nothing to worry about.............with FR reputation for poor service and customer care this will be storm at LBA! Once a few diversions have happened ........or you cant drop your bag off and the aircraft leave without you and FR say "tuff Fcek...rebook" (at inflated prices) the good folk of yorkshire will soon vote with their feet.

This will prove to be similar to the runaway success FR have had at BOH.

People are waking up to rip off Ryanair and their appauling attitude to customers.
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Old 12th Aug 2009, 11:30
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Yeah but twenty year old 733s have far higher mx costs compared to the RYR 738s. So when those old aircraft go tech more often costs money on HOTACs and down time, plus when down route mx companies like to charge the highest price.

With a fleet the size of the LS one, I would say if a couple of the aule rust buckets went tech, their schedule would be gone.
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Old 12th Aug 2009, 12:09
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Looking at FRs timetable for next summer it appears the Dublin service will be operated from Leeds, the morning departure at 6.15am and the evening one returning at midnight. That's the leisure traffic lost
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Old 12th Aug 2009, 12:13
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Super737 wrote:

"Yeah but twenty year old 733s have far higher mx costs compared to the RYR 738s."

What about the purchase cost of the FR machines? Are you forgetting that all these new aircraft need paying for?
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Old 12th Aug 2009, 14:10
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bark i dont normally

I think a lot of LS's passengers will be hopping onto the FR flights leaving LS with their already half full aircraft even less populated!
Not really sure where you got your information on load factors from, but according to Wikipedia Jet2 load factors for 2008 were nearly 80%, now that is more than half empty...also didnt Jet2 announce profits already this year are 3x higher then last year at over 33million, seems to me that Jet2 are doing good business, and to be able to do that they must have good loads......and that is after a reduction in services and flights of over 28%
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Old 12th Aug 2009, 15:12
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What about the tax MOL?

It may not seem like it, but LBA is in the UK for tax purposes. Has Michael forgotten that Ryanair and his pax can't afford the tenner airport tax?
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Old 12th Aug 2009, 15:34
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What about the tax MOL?

Ryanair's stance on the UK's APD is:

Ryanair announced its decision to temporarily freeze all growth at its existing U.K. bases from June 16, 2009 onwards. Ryanair plans to review the freeze of U.K. bases at the end of 2009; any changes in the announced policy will be dependent upon the recovery of the U.K. economy, the status of the U.K.s APD tourist tax and any other relevant factors (such as airport growth incentives).
Does that answer your question?
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Old 12th Aug 2009, 17:44
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I think a lot of LS's passengers will be hopping onto the FR flights leaving LS with their already half full aircraft even less populated!
Half full aircraft?! You ever flown with Jet2?! I have never seen a Jet2 757 go out with less than 200 passengers on it, and I check them in every day. You guessed it TFS yesterday had 228 on it, (That a/c was 228Y - nightmare to check in but hey it was packed!). PMI had 230 on it (That a/c was 232Y) The GVA had 146 on it (148Y) the KRK had 148+9 (148Y!!) .... You get the drift?! The only routes that go out with less than 100 pax on are BFS and DUS & NQY but these vary hugely, one day can have 140 pax going to BFS, the next day only 70.

Jet2 is at capacity at LBA, simply if they had more 757's - they would fill them no matter where they sent them. Ryanair will open up more capacity, on certain routes but it isn't going to have a negative effect on Jet2, Ryanair have the ability to create new passenger traffic, which is exactly what they wil do at LBA. You also have to bear in mind that around 1/4 of Jet2's passenger traffic to the likes of AGP/PMI/TFS etc are sold through Travel Agents/Tour Operators. Jet2 are here to stay at LBA and I hope they win, Ryanair were not interested in LBA to start with, Jet2 paved the way for growth and made LBA what it is. The Airport directors know this, and yes it has come as a bit of a shock how Ryanair are tredding on Jet2's footsteps but Jet2 are stronger then all the critics think on here.

Per passenger flown Jet2 is more profitable than Ryanair, Jet2 making 9.14 profit per passenger, Ryanair making 8.51 profit per passenger. Let the battle commence!
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Old 12th Aug 2009, 18:29
  #671 (permalink)  
 
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righthandrule:
I absolutely agree with your well written posting.
I have used Jet2 maybe 60 times or more to a variety of destinations besides my regular trips to work. The flights always appear full. I would like to know just where some of the posters are seeing all these empty seats.Are these people regular travellers? I doubt it very much. Maybe they can enlighten us.
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Old 12th Aug 2009, 18:52
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Sadly all airlines are following Ryanair down market, why because they fill aircraft! if any of you think that the effect at Leeds (for Jet2) will be anything other than negative you are IMHO living in Lala land.

Ryanair does what is says on the tin, it gets from A-B for little money, Jet2 add on's are no diffrent to any othe LocO and more over they can't afford to be.

Whilst i understand people with a vested interest (Jet2 employees) think that it will be good to see the back of CHAV's, guess what their money is as good as anyone's! and a lot of very savy business men will use Ryanair for short flights

This will force Jet2 to raise their game, as for the clowns who talk about 757 full to the med, well of course they will be, its the peak season dummy!! and if you want to go to the med from Leeds then at the minute Jet2 are the only show in town, that could never last and to compare LBA with BOH is frankly an insult to the good people of Leeds

Ryanair are here to stay, get used to it, they wont go bust, they wont go away and they wont crash aircraft into tChevin either, they will increase pax choice at Leeds they will lower Jet2 prices and they will open new routes and create jobs......

Sure you'll see the police at the fee's office calming pissed off customer, but hey guess what Jet2 have had a few of those as well remember the 30 for the little girls Teddy (hand luggage)
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Old 12th Aug 2009, 20:21
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We are not going to agree on this discussion, but regardless of what everyone is saying about Jet2, they are a stronger player than people think, they have a very good product, much better than some scheduled airlines. They have proved over the last year that they are highly profitable for their size and they fill aircraft. Look what happened at MAN with Jet2, they started a load of routes that they were unable to compete on, they reduced the flying programme to concentrate on routes that they made a profit on, and now are building back up the base to be highly successful.

Jet2 have dramatically reduced their cost base this year, I won't go into details as I do not think it is an area that should be discussed in public but Jet2 can compete with Ryanair, they will compete and they will survive. I can see that certain routes will face the chop by Jet2 but they have dropped a handful of routes each year but each time announce further routes which have proven to be a huge success. I have spoken to PM since the Ryanair announcement and as far as he is concerned he will NOT let O'Leary win.

No matter what anyone says about Jet2's aircraft being old, who cares?! Jet2 fly their aircraft profitablly and at the end of the day that is the bottom line. Most of the 737 have had a cabin revamp and the 757s are in the process of getting very nice new seats, aswell as two more aircraft getting winglets this coming winter. Passengers do not care about what the aircraft is like aslong as they get to where they are going safely. If anybody gets to fly on G-CGET (12 year old ex bmi baby leased in a/c) then fly one of Jet2's G-CEL* aircraft (24 year old) you will see a MASSIVE difference. Our old birds win hands down.
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Old 12th Aug 2009, 20:59
  #674 (permalink)  
 
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Who knows....

There appear to be alot of definitive opinions on winners and losers on this Jet2vRyan battle at LBA. (There's even more of this nonsense on the Ryanair thread, albeit with the odd bit of well reasoned thought) which I invite you to read, digest and for the most part...excrete! I think it's a very close call and until Summer 2010 comes along we won't really know.

Waiting for some of the more respected LBA posters on PPRuNe to come out of the shadows and post on this thread....(they know who they are), but in their absence thus far, I suspect that Jet2 will tinker with their advance plans for next Summer re exact frequencies on routes etc, but overall there is likely to be a coexistance, as each operator finds the measure of each other and the relative price elasticities of their target markets settle.

As Parkin & Hallwood at LBA have said, their target is the leakage west from the natural LBA catchment; to quote the idiots that think this is the end of Ringway...it is not, but it should certainly help to stem some of the flow.

What nobody has asked.....how will these additional pax be accommodated during what is set to be a rather intense bit of construction at LBA during 2010? At least the 2 based RYR machines will be on fairly intense schedules, meaning earlier starts, later finishes (than Jet2) and probably not coinciding with the current peak pax flows (I estimate both RYR machines will have left LBA c0600). Nevertheless a question.....
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Old 12th Aug 2009, 21:39
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Yes I agree it is great news for the airport, but as 14 Loop points out all the extra passengers and the construction of the new terminal front. It will be very challenging times ahead whilst all this is going on.
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Old 12th Aug 2009, 22:00
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Apparently Check In Hall B is to close over the winter, with Jet2 in Hall A with all the other airlines. Wether this has something to do with the start of the new terminal is anyones guess.
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Old 12th Aug 2009, 22:40
  #677 (permalink)  
 
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Two ryanair aircraft or Three???

I know the publicised launch of the new ryanair base says 2 aircraft but just checking their website for the 9th of April.....

Depart: Leeds Bradford*06:30 Arrive: Murcia*10:25
Depart: Murcia*10:50 Arrive: Leeds Bradford*12:45

Depart: Leeds Bradford*06:55 Arrive: Faro (Algarve)*10:00
Depart: Faro (Algarve)*10:25 Arrive: Leeds Bradford*13:30

Depart: Leeds Bradford*06:15 Arrive: Dublin*07:15
Depart: Dublin*07:40 Arrive: Leeds Bradford*08:40

that looks like three so happy days for the good people of Yorkshire, better deals and even more choice!!!!

flyingonempty
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Old 12th Aug 2009, 23:28
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"30 quid for the little girls teddy (hand luggage)"

That was easyjet at GLA

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Old 13th Aug 2009, 09:22
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What is Ryanair after?

Based... my comments were tongue in cheek. However, its less than 2 months since the freeze and mid August is nowhere near the end of 2009. I often find that RYA's comments should be taken with a bag of salt! Like the 140m investment in LBIA and 1000 jobs created!

Still Ryanair will have done their homework and to be sure they have got a good deal from the airport. The bottom line is they will want to make a profit, so why come to LBA and compete with Jet2. The answer is that there is more than enough demand for both operators. A recent study by the CAA showed that 3.7m pax per annum, who live in the LBIA catchment area, flew from other regional airports, with 3m of them using Manchester. Surely it is this market that Ryanair is aiming at, rather than Jet2.
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Old 13th Aug 2009, 11:04
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Hi Galaxy68,

Ryanair don't do peaceful co-existence with direct competitors. It is (sadly) fanciful to suppose that they will not target the Jet2 customer base from LBA. Where Jet2 has built up a market, Ryanair will be very happy to cannibalize it, and Ryanair know that many leisure travelers are not brand loyal. As you suggest, Ryanair can expect to pick up some customers who would otherwise fly from neighbouring airports - they are fair game too. But Jet2 has a bloody battle on its hands at LBA, be under no illusions about that (PM won't be). And Ryanair is holding the aces.

Cheers, SHED.
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