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LEEDS 5

Old 7th Jul 2016, 14:31
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Originally Posted by jamesgrainge
Is it just me who thinks LBA actually does quite a good job, after all, its a very small airport with limited capacity and capability. We have a major double runway, three terminal airport roughly 50 miles away yet LBA continues to be a busy airport with based airlines and European routes, despite all its shortcoming it runs a fairly decent schedule all year round. Not to mention GA, Multiflight and private owners.

Look at the likes of DTV, very similar to LBA but with arguably a better runway, yet has no traffic to speak of.

It is limited by its catchment, plane capability and the myriad rules, regulations and bylaws which strangle aviation, yet it has a solid plan and solid revenue. Please stop talking it down.
Yes LBA is a small airport that is very restricted. Agreed. That is why an airport for Yorkshire and the Humber and the whole North East (which will soon have a population of 9 million people) needs to built in the correct location and fully able to do the job. Then you will see an airport like Manchester, Birmingham, Edinburgh, Glasgow etc have.

A well located airport within Yorkshire would have a population catchment something in the region of 10x bigger than MME and so I cannot agree that the 2 potential airports are similar. In effect 4 airports would be combined into 1 very efficient and extremely well connected and unrestricted airport for 9 million people + to use.
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Old 7th Jul 2016, 14:34
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Seems as if the LEEDS 5 PPrune thread has been Hijacked once yet again...

LBA gets a bit more good news, yet its the same old story from "LEEDSAPPROACH" and his Church Fenton fantasy airport.

Last edited by LBIA; 7th Jul 2016 at 16:20.
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Old 7th Jul 2016, 14:47
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Originally Posted by N707ZS
If you look at Leeds East Church Fenton you can see they are paddling rather fast to keep afloat. They have managed to lease one hangar off to the film company and park the cross runway up with new cars, other than that the airfield isn't taking in much cash.
In actual fact they are paddling very slowly because we do not live in China. I would be careful what you say unless you are a spokesperson.

The Govt. want to give the good millions of people in Yorkshire and the North East a fit for purpose well located [for the entire region] and fully motorway and main rail connected airport that can handle all aircraft types like they wanted to give flood defense. Those people with wet houses let them do it just like the plane spotters do on here.

If you provide a region a proper airport - it will grow - look at BHX - it will grow through the roof. Whatever Yeadon airport manages to slowly grow to - an airport a few miles to the ESE on main arterial route would more than double it.
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Old 7th Jul 2016, 14:54
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Originally Posted by LBIA
Seem as if the LEEDS 5 PPrune thread Hijacked once yet again...

LBA gets a bit more good news, yet its the same old story from "LEEDSAPPROACH" and his Church Fenton fantasy airport.
What I'd like you to do LBIA is find out how many runways in Britain / UK have an LDA that is more than the LBA's maximum LDA. Then list all those airports and runways [both directions] on here and tell me that LBA is a fit for purpose airport (going forward) for the gigantic Leeds city region - one of the biggest cities in Europe.

It's no hijack I just like to post honestly about LBA. I will not mention any other airport - despite what others have clearly posted before me. This is about LBA which admittedly has done a great deal with RYR today which pits it against another Yorkshire airport. This battle was predicted months ago by me on here.
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Old 7th Jul 2016, 19:59
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LA, you created the Church Fenton thread, what is the problem with putting all this tosh on it?
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Old 7th Jul 2016, 20:25
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Because no one reads it on there and he gets a reaction to the tosh on here
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Old 9th Jul 2016, 09:39
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Thomas Cook using Evelop airlines in and out of LBA in 2017
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Old 9th Jul 2016, 10:52
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Does Yorkshire need a 'large airport' when you have MAN? Indeed, if we didn't have the Pennines as a divide and named counties either side, would we be having this argument in the first place?

I say this as a Yorkshireman.
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Old 9th Jul 2016, 11:23
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It's like people in Wrexham campaigning for long-haul flights from CWL 'cos it's in Wales'.. MAN is the Norths major airport, and it is poised to grow more with the investment going into the place.

Yorkshire doesn't need a new airport, it needs improved surface access to MAN, supplemented by increased connectivity from incumbent airports.

Anyway, troll feeding over.
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Old 9th Jul 2016, 11:29
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Originally Posted by easyflyer83
Does Yorkshire need a 'large airport' when you have MAN? Indeed, if we didn't have the Pennines as a divide and named counties either side, would we be having this argument in the first place?

I say this as a Yorkshireman.
A simple question with a very simple answer.

It is NOT about having a 'large airport' - it is about having an airport that can operate fully and efficiently and is in the best location to be used by the most amount of people with the least amount of hassle. That is - that it makes best use of its potential catchment population dependent on where it is located and how it is connected.

Leeds and Yorkshire need this 'type' of airport [which we do not currently have] in exactly the same way as we need a hospital or a train station or even an arena. Every city and region and country is the same - they aim to maximise the benefit of what they have.

Would a large city have a hospital that would only treat you if you were born in an even year? No of course not! So why does a massive populated region like Leeds have an airport that cannot handle modern large aircraft?

The former joint owner of LBA and leader of Leeds City Council stated "we want to be ambitious like other regions". It is not about any other region or airport - it is about doing the best for this region. No true Yorkshireman or woman would advocate Yorkshire not trying to do its best. Can we do better in Leeds and Yorkshire in terms of efficient civil aviation- Yes. It is not even an argument.
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Old 9th Jul 2016, 11:42
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Who doesn't want Leeds and Yorkshire to fully realise its potential in terms of efficient and least restrictive civil aviation strategy?

Competing airports, neighbouring regions but most of all Yeadon plane spotters!
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Old 9th Jul 2016, 11:51
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Not every large city needs a large airport especially when there is one just down the road, but even accepting that there is a business case for Yorkshire needing it's own globally capable airport, what is never explained is how it will be done - who pays for it, how do you overcome the objections, etc, etc
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Old 9th Jul 2016, 11:53
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But does it need to handle large aircraft?

Regardless of where exactly a Leeds airport is, there will always be parts of Yorkshire where MAN will be easier to reach.
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Old 9th Jul 2016, 12:07
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Originally Posted by easyflyer83
But does it need to handle large aircraft?

Regardless of where exactly a Leeds airport is, there will always be parts of Yorkshire where MAN will be easier to reach.
Agreed. But. What we have at present is much much much worse than what we can potentially have (without mentioning any other potential airport location) in terms of encouraging Yorkshire inhabiting people to fly from Yorkshire. In other words the potential change is for the better.

Does it need to handle large aircraft? Regardless let's eventually and potentially make it ABLE to? Is there demand for certain widebodied aircraft flights - 100% yes. In other words the potential change is for the better.
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Old 9th Jul 2016, 12:16
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
Not every large city needs a large airport especially when there is one just down the road, but even accepting that there is a business case for Yorkshire needing it's own globally capable airport, what is never explained is how it will be done - who pays for it, how do you overcome the objections, etc, etc
I will alas not be talking about any potential new airport now and certainly not on this thread. This thread is for LBA.
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Old 9th Jul 2016, 13:04
  #2696 (permalink)  
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I have countless times reached LBA from East Yorkshire in under an hour at all times of day or night. I can also get to DSA in 45 minutes (from Leeds and from East Yorkshire). Given that most studies of catchment area dynamics use an hour travelling time as the benchmark, both airports are already well placed in that respect. What they're not well placed to do is compete on the same level as MAN, and that is purely down to size of catchment areas, economic factors and propensity to fly. Yorkshire is not as densely populated as the North West, and not as many air passengers have O&D's in Yorkshire as they do in the North Weat, hence MAN being the place most airlines choose to operate from. Therefore it is important to improve connectivity to MAN so that Yorkshires cities can capitalise on that growth.
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Old 9th Jul 2016, 13:42
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Originally Posted by pug
I have countless times reached LBA from East Yorkshire in under an hour at all times of day or night. I can also get to DSA in 45 minutes (from Leeds and from East Yorkshire). Given that most studies of catchment area dynamics use an hour travelling time as the benchmark, both airports are already well placed in that respect. What they're not well placed to do is compete on the same level as MAN, and that is purely down to size of catchment areas, economic factors and propensity to fly. Yorkshire is not as densely populated as the North West, and not as many air passengers have O&D's in Yorkshire as they do in the North Weat, hence MAN being the place most airlines choose to operate from. Therefore it is important to improve connectivity to MAN so that Yorkshires cities can capitalise on that growth.
pug I've explained it very clearly to you again and again and again with many many facts and figures. If you have too many airports within a potential catchment when that catchment is heavily under attack from neighbouring airports then nobody wins - both airports suffer. having 2 poorly equipped florists on the high street means they both suffer. Much better to have 1 efficient florist in the best location on the high street.

Yes there is not as many people live in Yorkshire than live in the North West but the ratio is NOT 7 : 1.

There are more people live in the North East and Yorkshire than live in the North West and Cumbria and so a well located and accessible functioning airport within this region will without doubt ensure that people remain in the region to fly - hugely more than is happening at present (where passenger leakage is gigantic exactly because of the clear reasoning I've explained).
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Old 9th Jul 2016, 13:55
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Who will pay for 6 million people in Yorkshire the additional cost to get to MAN to take a flight that is 100% viable and profitable from a fully functioning and well located and accessible airport within Yorkshire?

I want to fly to Florida. Many hundreds of thousands of Yorkshire and Humberside people do. Will you pug pay the difference in travelling fare for doing so from MAN to fly (even on lovely HS3) as opposed to a functioning and well located airport within Yorkshire?
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Old 9th Jul 2016, 13:57
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LA-I don't accept your analogy, in that LBA and DSA are not in that same 'high street', they both have their own. Had proper provision been made for two airports, one to serve Leeds and one to serve Sheffield many years ago, we would not now see the dominance that MAN has over the north of the country. But we are as we are, and we must now make the best of it (and one airport at Church Fenton is most certainly not that-it would be an attempt at compromise doomed to failure).


Manchester has most certainly aided many people from east of the Pennines over the years in that it has sent them on their holidays. It was this comparative ease that was used as an excuse to oppose both applications to extend the runway at Leeds. Whether MAN has helped Leeds obtain international inward investment in meaningful amounts is a very different question, and I personally have seen little evidence to suggest that it has.
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Old 9th Jul 2016, 14:00
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I will alas not be talking about any potential new airport now and certainly not on this thread. This thread is for LBA.
Nice try - but you talk about nothing else

i.e. the post before (2696)..

What we have at present is much much much worse than what we can potentially have (without mentioning any other potential airport location) in terms of encouraging Yorkshire inhabiting people to fly from Yorkshire. In other words the potential change is for the better
and you then go on to say (2699)...

so a well located and accessible functioning airport within this region will without doubt ensure that people remain in the region to fly
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