Bmibaby
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Dark Side Of The Moon
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I think baby know this, hence the shifting of a disproportionately large volume of their available resources. I think it is true to say that the same applies over the winter and ema is their best performing base. Whether this has been helped by the big 2's regression or not is another matter.
Ittbf
Ittbf
JPT
JPT yr not entirely correct re the MAN-BER.
BA & then BA connect operated the route quite successfully to TXL twice a day with E145s.
Unfortunatley, Air Berlin moved in with a B738 (downgraded to a FK100) to TXL & also at the same time Jet2 launched a B733 to SXF.
So we ended up with 4 flights a day on some days. This killed it for everyone.
That was totaly unsustainable, so it ended up with all of them pulling out.
EZY have the North West market now on LPL-SXF, I don't see any change to that situation.
MAN had the route & lost it, but thats what happens in the free market.
BA & then BA connect operated the route quite successfully to TXL twice a day with E145s.
Unfortunatley, Air Berlin moved in with a B738 (downgraded to a FK100) to TXL & also at the same time Jet2 launched a B733 to SXF.
So we ended up with 4 flights a day on some days. This killed it for everyone.
That was totaly unsustainable, so it ended up with all of them pulling out.
EZY have the North West market now on LPL-SXF, I don't see any change to that situation.
MAN had the route & lost it, but thats what happens in the free market.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: manchester
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bmi baby have applied for slots at SXF again, 5 weekly evening flights. Whilst it doesnt mean the route will happen, it shows that there is still interest in the route again.
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Righthandrule
Look lets get it clear about Jet2 at EMA they have thus far been an IT operation and have yet to go head to head with babay or Ryanair at EMA on ticket only sales, plus all of their flights have been to places covered by the more established IT operators who have upped their offerings for 2011
They may have lower flight crew cost, baby Captains get between 12k-20k a year more and the F/o rates are near double, but Jet2 have a mixed fleet and have to cover night mail which may well go when the P/O is part privatised later this year.
baby have lived with Ryanair for more than a few years now and Jet2 know only to well what that has done to yields on the Leeds routes that go head to head.
They may have lower flight crew cost, baby Captains get between 12k-20k a year more and the F/o rates are near double, but Jet2 have a mixed fleet and have to cover night mail which may well go when the P/O is part privatised later this year.
baby have lived with Ryanair for more than a few years now and Jet2 know only to well what that has done to yields on the Leeds routes that go head to head.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Bradford
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An IT operation? I hardly call 40 seats sold to Co-Op Travel out of 229 on each 757 an IT operation. That is no more of an IT operation than bmibaby operate on some routes. Jet2 have been in direct competition with Ryanair on the Arrecife and Tenerife routes.
Yes, Jet2 have seen what Ryanair have done at LBA, quite frankly nothing. Hence more growth and the highest load factors seen since operations commenced. Jet2 have also walked over bmi baby at Manchester and will continue to grow at EMA. As I have said, and you agree, Jet2's cost base is much lower and is doing DOWN. I know some will not like it, but Jet2 are a dark horse and are going all guns blazing to make EMA a substantial station for the company.
Yes, Jet2 have seen what Ryanair have done at LBA, quite frankly nothing. Hence more growth and the highest load factors seen since operations commenced. Jet2 have also walked over bmi baby at Manchester and will continue to grow at EMA. As I have said, and you agree, Jet2's cost base is much lower and is doing DOWN. I know some will not like it, but Jet2 are a dark horse and are going all guns blazing to make EMA a substantial station for the company.
Join Date: Feb 2000
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The only reason BMI Baby have survived anywhere is by reducing the fleet by almost a 3rd of the last two years. They have always tried to serve business and holiday travelers, and fallen short on both counts by having flights at odd and inconvenient times. Quite how they managed to keep going is a mystery to me. each of the 3 companies in the group claimed to be the one that was making all the money that kept the other two afloat, but as soon as Sir Michael announced he was cashing in his shares and retiring BMI Baby laid off a load of crew, cancelled routes and handed back several aeroplanes. The company is unfocussed, has low standards of customer care and service, both on the ground and in the air, and if any other airline wanted to push it off any of it's routes could do so overnight.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Firestorm my dear fellow, you appear to have a serious issue with bmibaby. I suspect the recession may have had a small effect. Should baby retract and survive or continue as they headed into bankrupcy.
Could it be you worked there and "couldn't cut the mustard"?
good luck at Jet2.
Could it be you worked there and "couldn't cut the mustard"?
good luck at Jet2.
Join Date: Dec 2008
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If what you say is true Firestorm, do you think they would be ideal candidates to base a couple of aircaft at Bournemouth, where there isn't much competition ?
Or should they just give up ?
Or should they just give up ?
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: southwestUK
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BHX and MAN
Heard on the grapevine that bmi mainline are to base one aircraft each at BHX and MAN from summer 2011 for 18mths - 2 years.
I don't think its for charter work so anyone know if this is for baby or Lufthansa?
I don't think its for charter work so anyone know if this is for baby or Lufthansa?
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Bmi A320
wings11
Some of the details were out before Christmas and discussed on the BHX and MAN threads. Believed to be one A320 at BHX and one at MAN for Lufthansa Frankfurt services.
The last time I checked it was not in LH timetable as yet.
Pete
Some of the details were out before Christmas and discussed on the BHX and MAN threads. Believed to be one A320 at BHX and one at MAN for Lufthansa Frankfurt services.
The last time I checked it was not in LH timetable as yet.
Pete
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Believed to be one A320 at BHX and one at MAN for Lufthansa Frankfurt services.
The last time I checked it was not in LH timetable as yet
The last time I checked it was not in LH timetable as yet
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Jet2 at EMA is IT ie the majority of booking are with Jet2holidays.com, not the same as Jet2.com
Lets see what the next few years bring!!
bmi group losses have meant that baby have had to shrink, but do you think they have held on to MAN/BHX to fly two aircraft? out of each base?
With another 300 due shortly and dozens of Jet2 pilots applications on the CP desk i have little doubt that they will be still in the flight come 2012!!
Watch this space
Lets see what the next few years bring!!
bmi group losses have meant that baby have had to shrink, but do you think they have held on to MAN/BHX to fly two aircraft? out of each base?
With another 300 due shortly and dozens of Jet2 pilots applications on the CP desk i have little doubt that they will be still in the flight come 2012!!
Watch this space
Join Date: May 2009
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Jet2 at EMA is IT ie the majority of booking are with Jet2holidays.com, not the same as Jet2.com
The increased load factors at LBA are due to a reduction in flight frequency, nothing against that in it self but less seats for sale means shrinkage
I am not one for conflict and want ever airline to prosper, but bmi baby really needs to change their business model or find some kind of niche as they will not win when there is increased competition. bmi baby has always been a flawed business model from the start, it has branched away from its bmi routes but still has the overheads that other low cost carriers do not have.
Like Firestorm has said, if any airline wants to push baby off it's routes it will. Jet2 has done at Manchester, and i'm afraid they have got their sights on EMA. I hope bmi baby do something to differentiate themselves, first step would be to get some sort of decent website. I apologise for coming across as anti bmi baby, i'm not. I have have had 5 good experiences (and only one poor one, I fell victim to the hand luggage gauge scam) and I do hope they prosper.
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Jet2 have wiped baby out of MAN?? You mean the same way they wiped out Ryanair from MAN
Come on guys smell the coffee, Jet2 are a good little airline but they have not wiped out anybody FFS
If i recall from the bmibaby debacle surrounding SMB and LH, LH refused to extend or renew any leases until the bmi groups losses were under control, that meant that when bmibaby's leases were up the aircraft were returned and the crews sent down the road, bmi baby went from 21? aircraft to 12-14 in the space of two years so some routes and bases were always for the cull and EMA would be protected above other bases
History lesson over
What fascinates me is what they do next year 2012, surely it's grow or die? they don't seem to have been to troubled by Ryanair at EMA and one could argue that they have seen them off Paris & BHD,but i doubt Ryanair would see it that way.
I'm sure there is plenty of room at EMA for Jet2 along side both Ryanair & baby, but if Jet2 have read their sucsess at MAN as a victory over baby and think they can do the same again at EMA i suspect they will catch a cold
Lets see who has got deep pockets?
Come on guys smell the coffee, Jet2 are a good little airline but they have not wiped out anybody FFS
If i recall from the bmibaby debacle surrounding SMB and LH, LH refused to extend or renew any leases until the bmi groups losses were under control, that meant that when bmibaby's leases were up the aircraft were returned and the crews sent down the road, bmi baby went from 21? aircraft to 12-14 in the space of two years so some routes and bases were always for the cull and EMA would be protected above other bases
History lesson over
What fascinates me is what they do next year 2012, surely it's grow or die? they don't seem to have been to troubled by Ryanair at EMA and one could argue that they have seen them off Paris & BHD,but i doubt Ryanair would see it that way.
I'm sure there is plenty of room at EMA for Jet2 along side both Ryanair & baby, but if Jet2 have read their sucsess at MAN as a victory over baby and think they can do the same again at EMA i suspect they will catch a cold
Lets see who has got deep pockets?
Join Date: Nov 2004
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What fascinates me is what they do next year 2012, surely it's grow or die?
Having said that, WW does continually seem to be on a bit of a knife edge, with routes and strategy being changed quicker than most can keep up with. From the snapshot of the business that I've seen, loads are good on the majority of routes, and prices are hardly the cheapest around so there must be a fair bit of cash flow. However, I'm fully aware that this is no way to judge profit/loss over the entire airline.
My prediction for 2012; cautious expansion with maybe 2 or 3 aircraft joining the fleet (based MAN/BHX??). A few new routes tried, a few routes dropped. I.e. Just another unexceptional year for bmibaby. And lets just watch the same question being asked about 2013.
Join Date: Jun 2006
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I think i'm right in remembering that it was MAN itself that was reason FR left, because they wouldn't play ball with FR's tactics, and so FR spat its dummy out and up and left to leeds, and an increase at liverpool....
Join Date: May 2009
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How can you say bmi baby have not been wiped out at MAN? They had a good concept when the low cost model first came out but they never differetiates themselves. They have pretty poor service levels, and could have gone down the Ryanair route or alternately down the high service level Jet2/Monarch route. They charge Monarch fares yet give a Ryanair style service, not a winning combination. Baby could have gone big style at MAN, they have had more than enough chances, there is clearly a Market with Jet2, Monarch and easyJet all having large operations. Perhaps if they had done they would have developed a business model that works.
If leases was really the problem, why not source aircraft from a different lessor. 733 lease rates have been at an all time low for the last two years, why not pick up some more aircraft?
If leases was really the problem, why not source aircraft from a different lessor. 733 lease rates have been at an all time low for the last two years, why not pick up some more aircraft?