Bmibaby
Join Date: Mar 2011
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bmibaby London Stansted
Well it's just a few days away now untill the first flights between Belfast City BHD and London Stansted start! If the performance of EMA, BHX and even MAN and CWL have anything to go by in terms of increase in load factors since the move from BFS then STN should be on to a winner too!
I do have to agree with Facelookbovvered, in that most likely the BHD to STN market will be greater than the opposite STN to BHD market, mainly due to the fact that baby is better known in NI, though I guess time will tell on this...
Just out of interest, has anyone living in the Stansted/London area seen or heard much of any adverts regarding the new service?
Cheers!
I do have to agree with Facelookbovvered, in that most likely the BHD to STN market will be greater than the opposite STN to BHD market, mainly due to the fact that baby is better known in NI, though I guess time will tell on this...
Just out of interest, has anyone living in the Stansted/London area seen or heard much of any adverts regarding the new service?
Cheers!
Join Date: Mar 2011
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Man Bhx and Cwl still underperforming with no great increase in pax numbers.Man will take a very bit hit very very soon....
Join Date: Mar 2011
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Man Bhx and Cwl still underperforming with no great increase in pax numbers.Man will take a very bit hit very very soon....
bmibaby are clearly comitted to their Northern Ireland operation, regardless of which airport they fly to. They've always stook it out even when head to head with ryanair and its 1p flights! So low pax number with WW on its Belfast routes can't have huge impact on takings?
Join Date: Jun 2005
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I live 15 minutes from STN and have not seen any local TV, or heard any local radio, ads. That doesn't mean however there haven't been any!
I am booked to go STN-BFS-STN in May so will sample a WWW service for the first time. So far not over impressed, as the "add-ons" to the advertsied flight price were considerably higher than I expected and the flight times have been changed.
I hope WWW are sucessful from STN because there further potental routes from STN which WWW may wish to try e.g. Frankfurt,
I am booked to go STN-BFS-STN in May so will sample a WWW service for the first time. So far not over impressed, as the "add-ons" to the advertsied flight price were considerably higher than I expected and the flight times have been changed.
I hope WWW are sucessful from STN because there further potental routes from STN which WWW may wish to try e.g. Frankfurt,
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Is time running out for WW at MAN?
Last year, Julian Carr said it would like to expand MAN with more niche city routes, but as seen as its taking WW so long to do something with MAN, they are loosing ground, and fast.
Where could WW go at MAN now?
MAN-Belfast is about to be subject to the orange invasion, they were priced off MAN-AGP and MAN-ALC.
LIS could be jepordised too, as TP are now going to go 6 weekly, with some faily competative prices.
City route wise, they have lost a chance to serve MAN-SXF and MAN-MAD. Both routes were unserved for 2+ years, screaming out for someone to serve it, but now, there are 2 carriers on MAN-MAD, and easyjet ones on MAN-SXF.
So, whats left?
Mid Europe:
-BTS (Or VIE),
-maybe the smaller german cities like Bremen, Nuremburg or Leipzig?
Spain:
-Have a good chance to jump on BCN before easyjet eventually go for it. Only a daily ZB, so WW could compliment with an AM flight.
-Valencia/seville, but, a risk of RYR jumping in, as they have stated Med cities will be expanded from MAN, and both are RYR bases.
Portugal:
-maybe move their 2xweekly LIS to OPO?
Eastern Europe:
-WAW/KTW/KRK crying out for a MAN service
-VNO/RIX/TLL also unserved at MAN
Northern africa:
-TUN/CAS/ALG (ok, now im just talking crazy talk!)
But, back to the origional question, with just 2 based aircraft, and with red/orange/blue building up on MAN, is there room for a baby?
Last year, Julian Carr said it would like to expand MAN with more niche city routes, but as seen as its taking WW so long to do something with MAN, they are loosing ground, and fast.
Where could WW go at MAN now?
MAN-Belfast is about to be subject to the orange invasion, they were priced off MAN-AGP and MAN-ALC.
LIS could be jepordised too, as TP are now going to go 6 weekly, with some faily competative prices.
City route wise, they have lost a chance to serve MAN-SXF and MAN-MAD. Both routes were unserved for 2+ years, screaming out for someone to serve it, but now, there are 2 carriers on MAN-MAD, and easyjet ones on MAN-SXF.
So, whats left?
Mid Europe:
-BTS (Or VIE),
-maybe the smaller german cities like Bremen, Nuremburg or Leipzig?
Spain:
-Have a good chance to jump on BCN before easyjet eventually go for it. Only a daily ZB, so WW could compliment with an AM flight.
-Valencia/seville, but, a risk of RYR jumping in, as they have stated Med cities will be expanded from MAN, and both are RYR bases.
Portugal:
-maybe move their 2xweekly LIS to OPO?
Eastern Europe:
-WAW/KTW/KRK crying out for a MAN service
-VNO/RIX/TLL also unserved at MAN
Northern africa:
-TUN/CAS/ALG (ok, now im just talking crazy talk!)
But, back to the origional question, with just 2 based aircraft, and with red/orange/blue building up on MAN, is there room for a baby?
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G-APDK
I hope WWW are sucessful from STN because there further potental routes from STN which WWW may wish to try e.g. Frankfurt
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Bmibaby at MAN
Wana be there,
Your post is interesting and I agree with much of the sentiments in it. While delighted by the Monpellier route from MAN, that to have missed Madrid and Berlin, while only providing Verona from East Midlands did appear to be a perculiar stragegy. I remember Julian Carr making his grand statement about expanding niche routes from Manchester however at the time I thought this never really seemed plausible given baby chopping and changing routes as they were.
I wish baby well as they were the first LCC at MAN and have stayed at MAN through thick and thin, as well as offering some interesting french routes and keeping LIS just about alive from MAN. They also have their fans and I really think with Lufthasa's backing and some prompt decision making that they could develop some interesting routes from MAN to e.g. Oporto, Asturias, Granada, Seville as well as Verona etc. and make some money. I would like to see some targeted further expansion at MAN along the lines of MON as I think that the niche route strategy if actullay implemented will provide a future.
Just my thoughts,
DomyDom
Your post is interesting and I agree with much of the sentiments in it. While delighted by the Monpellier route from MAN, that to have missed Madrid and Berlin, while only providing Verona from East Midlands did appear to be a perculiar stragegy. I remember Julian Carr making his grand statement about expanding niche routes from Manchester however at the time I thought this never really seemed plausible given baby chopping and changing routes as they were.
I wish baby well as they were the first LCC at MAN and have stayed at MAN through thick and thin, as well as offering some interesting french routes and keeping LIS just about alive from MAN. They also have their fans and I really think with Lufthasa's backing and some prompt decision making that they could develop some interesting routes from MAN to e.g. Oporto, Asturias, Granada, Seville as well as Verona etc. and make some money. I would like to see some targeted further expansion at MAN along the lines of MON as I think that the niche route strategy if actullay implemented will provide a future.
Just my thoughts,
DomyDom
Well it's good to see BMI back on its feet and having some kind of direction once again. However, this does not appear to have materialised at Baby yet.
There was the announcement that Baby was to return it's attention to MAN,but looks like it's changed again with the opening up of Stansted.
As SLF, my perception is it still appears that there remains no definitive strategy and I'd be concerened that it's still chop and change at Baby. Maybe there is a clear plan ahead, if there is, I don't think it's being communicated well to customers.
Many of the add on charges are OTT. What grinds my gears is that on top of the baggage charge is a compulsory check in fee, which can't be avoided if you pay for a bag.
There was the announcement that Baby was to return it's attention to MAN,but looks like it's changed again with the opening up of Stansted.
As SLF, my perception is it still appears that there remains no definitive strategy and I'd be concerened that it's still chop and change at Baby. Maybe there is a clear plan ahead, if there is, I don't think it's being communicated well to customers.
Many of the add on charges are OTT. What grinds my gears is that on top of the baggage charge is a compulsory check in fee, which can't be avoided if you pay for a bag.
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A quick read of the Lufthansa group annual report will show you exactly where Manchester fits into the Bmibaby plans:
Lufthansa Annual Report 2010 - British Midland
With 14 aircraft from the Boeing 737 family, bmibaby operates as a low-cost airline, primarily from East Midlands airport and Birmingham airport, where it has a strong market presence. In 2010 flights from East Midlands to Germany were also added to the route network.
No mention of Manchester at all.
Also
Bmi Revenue = €896m
Bmi Operating loss - €145m
Lufthansa Annual Report 2010 - British Midland
With 14 aircraft from the Boeing 737 family, bmibaby operates as a low-cost airline, primarily from East Midlands airport and Birmingham airport, where it has a strong market presence. In 2010 flights from East Midlands to Germany were also added to the route network.
No mention of Manchester at all.
Also
Bmi Revenue = €896m
Bmi Operating loss - €145m
What grinds my gears is that on top of the baggage charge is a compulsory check in fee, which can't be avoided if you pay for a bag.
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bmi baby do seem rather vunerable at MAN. Belfast is seeing fierce competition, and it would only take Easyjet, Jet 2 and/or Flybe to start taking an interest in BOD, TLS or some other French flying and bmi baby would be under huge competitive pressure
What have bmi baby got at MAN that the competition hasn't? Flybe has connections, and smaller aircraft for frequency. EZY/BE/LS/ZB all have economies of scale from a larger base. LS/ZB and now EZY have package holiday options. EZY/LS/ZB have longer range aircraft opening up a wider range of possible destinations. And thats ignoring FR potentially adding more flights into MAN
What have bmi baby got at MAN that the competition hasn't? Flybe has connections, and smaller aircraft for frequency. EZY/BE/LS/ZB all have economies of scale from a larger base. LS/ZB and now EZY have package holiday options. EZY/LS/ZB have longer range aircraft opening up a wider range of possible destinations. And thats ignoring FR potentially adding more flights into MAN
Copenhagen
Yes, I couldn't agree more with you, the annual report does not mention Manchester. Yet it was the Baby boss who did mention Manchester = confusing strategy.
ETOPS
I kind of understand what you are saying, but I have to say Baby ain't cheap to start with. On the MAN-LIS nearly always much cheaper to fly TAP & you get bags etc included.
Yes, I couldn't agree more with you, the annual report does not mention Manchester. Yet it was the Baby boss who did mention Manchester = confusing strategy.
ETOPS
I kind of understand what you are saying, but I have to say Baby ain't cheap to start with. On the MAN-LIS nearly always much cheaper to fly TAP & you get bags etc included.
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I'm ex-baby staff, now working for easy, and it saddens me deeply to say that I believe we could help to nail the coffin for my ex-colleagues at MAN.
I really hope that I'm wrong, but I don't see where any expansion at MAN could come from.
Tinytown/Hastings House.....prove me wrong, please !
I really hope that I'm wrong, but I don't see where any expansion at MAN could come from.
Tinytown/Hastings House.....prove me wrong, please !
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Does everyone seem to forget the CWL isn't mentioned in the report? Obviously BHX and EMA are the way forward for WW. They have stated that CWL is an important base but yet with CWL being down to 1 based this summer this seems unlikely. Although JC mentioned the Canaries were a possibility for CWL especially with G-THOL/P entering the fleet.
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Have people overlooked the word that's being used in the report is "primarily"? If most aircraft are based out of BHX and EMA, then it shouldn't be of any concern that neither MAN nor CWL is mentioned but using "primarily" hints at airports away from the two that have been mentioned.
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Words in the Lufthansa report are very carefully chosen. The cities mentioned are where WW will have primary focus. Manchester and Cardiff will have a secondary focus.
Just like WW was born to protect BD fortress EMA from go! Flybe have a similar protect at all costs attitude to belfast city - go back and look at other contenders there - such as AB airlines. They should have stayed at INTL - two low cost carriers competing on the same airport pairs ensure that neither will make money - flybe is stronger and has historic reasons to ensure they dont lose out at BHD, just like WW at EMA.
Also interesting is that the only part of the bmi group to be mentioned as having a positive financial contribution to the company was BMIr charter.
Just like WW was born to protect BD fortress EMA from go! Flybe have a similar protect at all costs attitude to belfast city - go back and look at other contenders there - such as AB airlines. They should have stayed at INTL - two low cost carriers competing on the same airport pairs ensure that neither will make money - flybe is stronger and has historic reasons to ensure they dont lose out at BHD, just like WW at EMA.
Also interesting is that the only part of the bmi group to be mentioned as having a positive financial contribution to the company was BMIr charter.
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As the big brother is being slowly intergrated into the Lufthansa group im afraid its gonna be Bye Bye Baby...just a thought but charging for bags and then charging to check the said bags in,well slf are gonna wise up to that and in no way can they compete with Ezy on Stanstead and Manchester to Belfast.