Chaos at Terminal 5
Chaos in CDG this afternoon as BA cancelled 3 of its LHR flights.
Big queues at what looks like a temporary BA desk and then even bigger queues at the EZY desk as people try and get flights back to UK.
BA announce that such and such a number of flights have been cancelled today and to many its just a number but to see the actual people who are caught up in this mess, struggling to get home, really brings the point home.
Big queues at what looks like a temporary BA desk and then even bigger queues at the EZY desk as people try and get flights back to UK.
BA announce that such and such a number of flights have been cancelled today and to many its just a number but to see the actual people who are caught up in this mess, struggling to get home, really brings the point home.
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Can I just ask, how many here have actually been in T5?
Anyone can sit at home and rattle a keyboard ...
Is there anyone there who actually knows anything, as opposed to just consuming bandwidth?
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I have, as a passenger. Had a fairly good experience, actually. Was only a UK domestic flight, and I had no hold baggage, so can see potential for more problems. Only slight delay was boarding because (as the pilot told us when we were boarded) they couldn't find enough ground staff 
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I have spent some time working there and am interested in peoples REAL opinion.
There is an awful lot of drivel being written here just for the sake of BA bashing.
Many pax told me that they had a very pleasant experience
Nigel the Normal????? which excuse do you work for?. You're a very rude and pointless poster..
Just for the record, BA cancelled 17 flights at Gatwick this morning. I wonder why that was?
BAA shut the runway for 2 hours..... but no doubt you'll tell me that BA was the only airline that had to divert (silly BA don't carry 2 hours holding fuel).
Back to the thread....
Every other airline in the world is spitting feathers that BA have sole use of T5...
It's own motorway spur, tube station etc, etc..... Lord Branston must be particularly peeved
There is an awful lot of drivel being written here just for the sake of BA bashing.
Many pax told me that they had a very pleasant experience
Nigel the Normal????? which excuse do you work for?. You're a very rude and pointless poster..
Just for the record, BA cancelled 17 flights at Gatwick this morning. I wonder why that was?
BAA shut the runway for 2 hours..... but no doubt you'll tell me that BA was the only airline that had to divert (silly BA don't carry 2 hours holding fuel).
Back to the thread....
Every other airline in the world is spitting feathers that BA have sole use of T5...
It's own motorway spur, tube station etc, etc..... Lord Branston must be particularly peeved
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Have you been to T5?
In reply to Speedpig's question, Yes I have been a number of times. Indeed I have been there this afternoon. It's scary in there, too much glass and too many angry people. I feel sorry for the BA staff, there were a number of incidents today as tempers are starting to flare. Good move by BA to ban the media from the terminal, the scenes of people rowing and being ushered out by the police would make good TV. Customer service, path that's a joke.
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Runway shut at LHR
The runway at LHR was only shut 'briefly' today, not the 2hrs that speedpig seems to suggest. I think speedpig is trying to be a little misleading on this thread. Reference my earlier post, for the pilots here, would 1" of snow, the 'kind' we had this morning cause you any difficulty landing. Indeed I have experianced landing in a variety of aircraft in very inclement weather, lots of snow on the runway. It only seems to be a problem at LHR. You know the press releases from BA & BAA is just more spin when the snow which settled had melted, all on it's own by 10am this morning.
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Why Bother????????
I have been reading the multitude of posts here since the beginning of the T5 debacle and as a new reader have kept my head below the parapet. I`m just having a quick look over ,so keep the bullets flying high!
One thing that I cannot get my head round is that although passengers unfortunate to be "flying" ( I use that word advisedly) from T5 on it`s opening day had no choice but put up with all the crap that BA & BAA threw at them, why every day since ,are people still booking to fly with this awful airline from some of the the worst facilities in Europe.
Are these passengers either completely insane or the most optimistic beings on the Planet? Why anyone, including practising masocists want to put themselves through all that misery is a complete mystery to me.
I for one will never fly with BA again or use that dump of an airport however many new terminal Terminals it opens. There are other options, or do perhaps foreigners think we only have one "airport" in the UK?
I would however like to make it quite clear that my rant is in no way directed at the thousands of hard working employees of BA & BAA ,but at the morons who are paid considerable amounts to run them but couldn`t direct traffic let alone Corporate Businesses. Rant over ----I feel better already.
One thing that I cannot get my head round is that although passengers unfortunate to be "flying" ( I use that word advisedly) from T5 on it`s opening day had no choice but put up with all the crap that BA & BAA threw at them, why every day since ,are people still booking to fly with this awful airline from some of the the worst facilities in Europe.
Are these passengers either completely insane or the most optimistic beings on the Planet? Why anyone, including practising masocists want to put themselves through all that misery is a complete mystery to me.
I for one will never fly with BA again or use that dump of an airport however many new terminal Terminals it opens. There are other options, or do perhaps foreigners think we only have one "airport" in the UK?
I would however like to make it quite clear that my rant is in no way directed at the thousands of hard working employees of BA & BAA ,but at the morons who are paid considerable amounts to run them but couldn`t direct traffic let alone Corporate Businesses. Rant over ----I feel better already.
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I would have thought the media would have, ahem, sidestepped the media ban or had people ready to grab annoyed passengers and then whistle them off to a nearby hotel for a quick interview.
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A good point, luoto ...
What we are getting on the mainstream Media [ie BBC etc.] are simple figures on cancelled flights that could be generated by an 18-yo researcher with a PC. There is no "in-depth" reporting at all, or any attempt to intelligently filter out weather and normal operating issues from those specifically related to T5.
Here we are getting very little of substance, which is VERY disappointing given the size and spread of the PPRuNe knowledge-base.
Which really makes me wonder .... is this actually one big non-story now?
BTW, jolini, some people have virtually no choice but to use LHR and/or BA by virtue of destinations, schedules and other factors.
And, dysag ... I don't want to have to fly from LHR via EHAM or CDG to get where I'm going, and I can't get direct to EHAM anyway.
What we are getting on the mainstream Media [ie BBC etc.] are simple figures on cancelled flights that could be generated by an 18-yo researcher with a PC. There is no "in-depth" reporting at all, or any attempt to intelligently filter out weather and normal operating issues from those specifically related to T5.
Here we are getting very little of substance, which is VERY disappointing given the size and spread of the PPRuNe knowledge-base.
Which really makes me wonder .... is this actually one big non-story now?
BTW, jolini, some people have virtually no choice but to use LHR and/or BA by virtue of destinations, schedules and other factors.
And, dysag ... I don't want to have to fly from LHR via EHAM or CDG to get where I'm going, and I can't get direct to EHAM anyway.
Last edited by Two-Tone-Blue; 6th Apr 2008 at 18:45. Reason: Addition
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Airline web site shows about 80 Heathrow departures are canx today.
Many other Departures and arrivals are late.
80 plus 80 = 160 = lots of unhappy passengers and bags.
Heathrow is not a very happy place today, my thoughts are with all the passengers and staff caught up in it.
Many other Departures and arrivals are late.
80 plus 80 = 160 = lots of unhappy passengers and bags.
Heathrow is not a very happy place today, my thoughts are with all the passengers and staff caught up in it.
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I've done T5 (on Day 5)
Here's my experience/views.
Last Monday (March 31st) I took the BA0724 to GVA with a scheduled departure time of 06.30 and hold bags. Returning later in the evening, with hold bags.
It certainly is an impressive building.
Arrived at 05:00 to check my bags in for an 06:30.
I was almost the first person there. A group of check in girls were trying to log on, but no one knew the password. There was a lot of discussion between the girls and they shuffled through the paperwork they had. One of them said "I just picked up everything there was... but I can't seem to find the password". After five minutes (it seemed longer) someone (a supervisor ?) came along and helped my girl log in. She told her the password so that she could type it in. "How will I remember that?" she said. "Its obvious" I said, "Its **********", a word which is closely associated with the airline (no, not "crap"). Anyway, logged in we were, but she couldn't make the sign above her head change to "Desk Open" so she gave up on that. First bag tagged.... next problem, in what sequence does one press the buttons on the desk to make the bag disappear? After randomly pressing buttons for a couple of minutes, a techy chap came along and showed her what to do and my bags were duly swallowed by the T5 baggage machine.
The nice girl apologised profusely.... explaining that it was her first day and that she had had no training. I explained that I knew and that it was ok, it wasn't her fault. Its now around 5.15am. As I turned around the queue behind me must have been twenty deep.
Through security, that was ok, but it was early and I've got used to the whole routine of just "going quietly" and undressing - shoes, belt, jacket etc.
Next the lounge. Right by Security was the Concorde Room, but we couldn't get in that way as we were mere Club Europe pax. So we followed signs for the lounge (or whatever its called). The signs took us all round the shops (of course) and then down some stairs, back through some more shops before ending up near to where we had started. Then it was up several escalators to the First lounge, round and round a bit more, before getting up to the Club lounge.
The whole point of going to the lounge at 5.30 am is for a quick cuppa and a couple of bacon rolls. The bacon rolls were not quite ready when it flashed up on the screen "Go To Gate 10B". Not knowing how far that was, and not wanting to miss it, we set off towards the gate. As we approached the lifts in the central bit, which presumably take you down to get the train to the satellite terminals "B & C" we double checked the information. It was now saying "A10" .. not "10B". We didn't have much faith in the people with clipboards, but a lady said that shorthauls were going from the A gates, so we plumped for A10.
When we got down there, A10 was a whole host of gates... A10a, A10b. A10c etc etc etc. I have not been back to check, but is it a software error that the screens in the lounge only show three characters and so A10b was displayed as 10b? The people who didn't double check and went to B10 not A10 had their bags offloaded and were left behind.
Anyway, there were a lot of flustered gate staff around all bashing away at computers... one girl commented that this was the thrid job she had been given that morning (and it was still only about 05.50).
To be fair, the buses were all lined up outside and off we went. Arriving at the a/c we could see that the steps were too low to reach the a/c door. After a lot of faffing about, more steps were brought to the rear door and we all got on there. You could say not a T5 problem though. The big problem is that we were kept on the bus for 15 minutes whilst they sorted it out, packed in like sardines with the heaters on full (for the driver) was very unpleasant. (I hate being bused to the plane although I hear that 40% of T5 flights will need a bus).
We departed 30 mins late, due to the steps and the offloading of the bags for the people at the wrong gate.... so not too bad really.
Arrived at GVA and my bags were there too! Hurrah!
Return trip uneventful.
Got a pier at T5. Walked a million miles to baggage reclaim, although the bags turned up with in a couple of minutes. So can't really grumble.
CONCLUSION
I was surprised at just how much of it was unfinished. The signage is dreadful.... do people not go round and check what they drew out on paper?
T5 is just TOO BIG.
I'm sure if you use T5 once a year and are happy to turn up four hours before your two hour flight, you'll be fine. But for regular business travellers, I think the sheer size of the whole place will be a pain in the
I am sure that one reason the baggage system fails is because you could basically check in anywhere for any flight. Would it not have been simpler to split it in two - Long Haul and Short Haul, but all within the same building? That would surely have simplified the baggage system?
I don't think that its all the fault of the baggage system. How for example could BA have staff turning up on day 5 still not knowing how to log in? I think that clearly backs up everything that has been said on here about the BA and BAA management and their MBAs.
I am staggered at the incompetance of the BA and BAA management and if they thought that T5 was going to work with the minimal investment in training and staff that they have made, then clearly they are the most deluded people I have come across and are not fit to run a bath, let alone BA and BAA. Please can someone reassure me that WW has not cut safety and engineering to the bone too?
Today's annoying news is that the snow has been blamed for the majority of cancellations. Why? It was one inch at LHR, it wasn't that cold and melted almost as fast as it arrived. On top of that it had been widely forecast for the last week, so how could BA and BAA not have been ready?
WW and his chums are a disgrace. I'm just glad that I wasn't in T5 on Day 1, 'cos I'd probably have head-butted the snivelling lepricorn.
3Y
Last Monday (March 31st) I took the BA0724 to GVA with a scheduled departure time of 06.30 and hold bags. Returning later in the evening, with hold bags.
It certainly is an impressive building.
Arrived at 05:00 to check my bags in for an 06:30.
I was almost the first person there. A group of check in girls were trying to log on, but no one knew the password. There was a lot of discussion between the girls and they shuffled through the paperwork they had. One of them said "I just picked up everything there was... but I can't seem to find the password". After five minutes (it seemed longer) someone (a supervisor ?) came along and helped my girl log in. She told her the password so that she could type it in. "How will I remember that?" she said. "Its obvious" I said, "Its **********", a word which is closely associated with the airline (no, not "crap"). Anyway, logged in we were, but she couldn't make the sign above her head change to "Desk Open" so she gave up on that. First bag tagged.... next problem, in what sequence does one press the buttons on the desk to make the bag disappear? After randomly pressing buttons for a couple of minutes, a techy chap came along and showed her what to do and my bags were duly swallowed by the T5 baggage machine.
The nice girl apologised profusely.... explaining that it was her first day and that she had had no training. I explained that I knew and that it was ok, it wasn't her fault. Its now around 5.15am. As I turned around the queue behind me must have been twenty deep.
Through security, that was ok, but it was early and I've got used to the whole routine of just "going quietly" and undressing - shoes, belt, jacket etc.
Next the lounge. Right by Security was the Concorde Room, but we couldn't get in that way as we were mere Club Europe pax. So we followed signs for the lounge (or whatever its called). The signs took us all round the shops (of course) and then down some stairs, back through some more shops before ending up near to where we had started. Then it was up several escalators to the First lounge, round and round a bit more, before getting up to the Club lounge.
The whole point of going to the lounge at 5.30 am is for a quick cuppa and a couple of bacon rolls. The bacon rolls were not quite ready when it flashed up on the screen "Go To Gate 10B". Not knowing how far that was, and not wanting to miss it, we set off towards the gate. As we approached the lifts in the central bit, which presumably take you down to get the train to the satellite terminals "B & C" we double checked the information. It was now saying "A10" .. not "10B". We didn't have much faith in the people with clipboards, but a lady said that shorthauls were going from the A gates, so we plumped for A10.
When we got down there, A10 was a whole host of gates... A10a, A10b. A10c etc etc etc. I have not been back to check, but is it a software error that the screens in the lounge only show three characters and so A10b was displayed as 10b? The people who didn't double check and went to B10 not A10 had their bags offloaded and were left behind.
Anyway, there were a lot of flustered gate staff around all bashing away at computers... one girl commented that this was the thrid job she had been given that morning (and it was still only about 05.50).
To be fair, the buses were all lined up outside and off we went. Arriving at the a/c we could see that the steps were too low to reach the a/c door. After a lot of faffing about, more steps were brought to the rear door and we all got on there. You could say not a T5 problem though. The big problem is that we were kept on the bus for 15 minutes whilst they sorted it out, packed in like sardines with the heaters on full (for the driver) was very unpleasant. (I hate being bused to the plane although I hear that 40% of T5 flights will need a bus).
We departed 30 mins late, due to the steps and the offloading of the bags for the people at the wrong gate.... so not too bad really.
Arrived at GVA and my bags were there too! Hurrah!
Return trip uneventful.
Got a pier at T5. Walked a million miles to baggage reclaim, although the bags turned up with in a couple of minutes. So can't really grumble.
CONCLUSION
I was surprised at just how much of it was unfinished. The signage is dreadful.... do people not go round and check what they drew out on paper?
T5 is just TOO BIG.
I'm sure if you use T5 once a year and are happy to turn up four hours before your two hour flight, you'll be fine. But for regular business travellers, I think the sheer size of the whole place will be a pain in the
I am sure that one reason the baggage system fails is because you could basically check in anywhere for any flight. Would it not have been simpler to split it in two - Long Haul and Short Haul, but all within the same building? That would surely have simplified the baggage system?
I don't think that its all the fault of the baggage system. How for example could BA have staff turning up on day 5 still not knowing how to log in? I think that clearly backs up everything that has been said on here about the BA and BAA management and their MBAs.
I am staggered at the incompetance of the BA and BAA management and if they thought that T5 was going to work with the minimal investment in training and staff that they have made, then clearly they are the most deluded people I have come across and are not fit to run a bath, let alone BA and BAA. Please can someone reassure me that WW has not cut safety and engineering to the bone too?
Today's annoying news is that the snow has been blamed for the majority of cancellations. Why? It was one inch at LHR, it wasn't that cold and melted almost as fast as it arrived. On top of that it had been widely forecast for the last week, so how could BA and BAA not have been ready?
WW and his chums are a disgrace. I'm just glad that I wasn't in T5 on Day 1, 'cos I'd probably have head-butted the snivelling lepricorn.
3Y
Last edited by Three Yellows; 6th Apr 2008 at 19:26. Reason: Added the bit about regular travellers
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Media censorship
To all the posters who seemed suprised that there seems to be a media ban on information coming out of terminal 5, just think who is the head of PR at BA? Julia Simpson, x chief of PR during MR Blairs reign. Do you not think she has very good links in with the bosses at BA. We live in a police state, just look at the sham of the olympic torch parade today. Part of the control mechanism is to manipulate the press, this has certainly happened with Terminal 5 fiasco. THe fact that it was such an embarressment for New labour and the UK would just add to the pressure to stop showing the bad news. THe fact is, it is still going on and the media will have to stay away for months as it isn;t going to get any better soon. I think PPRUNER's should write into the BBC and complain
Last edited by Willie Wash; 6th Apr 2008 at 19:42.
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Damn fine post 3Y
Three yellows, damn fine post... the first comprehensive blow by blow passenger trip through T5. Clearly despite most things working the building has some serious glitches. With regard to the engineering and safety issues, maybe if PPRUNE has left those engineers posting through BAengineering we might have got an answer to your question. Certainly with the emergency landing of the SFN flight into SNN last night with hydraulic probs, who knows??? Though i do believe the whole airline went through a huge cut back in staff 2 years ago.
Three yellows
I went through on day one. All frontline staff were very friendly and were trying to be hepful, however, there was one major glitch at the fast bag drop termnal. After queueing for about 25 minutes we eventually got to the desk, only to find the teenager reading a text on what appeared to be her company mobile phone. She apologised (in a sorry for the inconvenience caused sort of way) and explained that the text said that had to go now and the desk was closing. No one to take over, not a supervisor in sight, we were just expected to go and queue somewhere else.
Might as well have not bothered though. Haven't seen my luggage since. Baggage Tracing insist that they know it is definitely in LHR. Great
I went through on day one. All frontline staff were very friendly and were trying to be hepful, however, there was one major glitch at the fast bag drop termnal. After queueing for about 25 minutes we eventually got to the desk, only to find the teenager reading a text on what appeared to be her company mobile phone. She apologised (in a sorry for the inconvenience caused sort of way) and explained that the text said that had to go now and the desk was closing. No one to take over, not a supervisor in sight, we were just expected to go and queue somewhere else.
Might as well have not bothered though. Haven't seen my luggage since. Baggage Tracing insist that they know it is definitely in LHR. Great
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From Three Yellows
Great post, have only seen the apron levels of T5 (airside) so good to hear a passengers eye view of the whole shambles.
It was extremely cold this morning and the snow did settle, doesn't excuse the BAA for being unprepared though especially as like you say it was all over the forecasts for the last week.
I fear this may take a long time to get sorted out - the building it seems was to be "finished on time,on budget" at any cost to those using it after handover. The construction contractors should also be apologising for the state they've left a supposedly complete building in.
Lastly from me, I'm very surprised that BA (my employer) hasn't put out full page adverts in all the papers apologising to our customers - it won't fix things but it would at least a little show that we actually care what's happened to them. A weak apology on the website and a few appaling interviews with WW just aren't enough.
Great post, have only seen the apron levels of T5 (airside) so good to hear a passengers eye view of the whole shambles.
Today's annoying news is that the snow has been blamed for the majority of cancellations. Why? It was one inch at LHR, it wasn't that cold and melted almost as fast as it arrived. On top of that it had been widely forecast for the last week, so how could BA and BAA not have been ready?
I fear this may take a long time to get sorted out - the building it seems was to be "finished on time,on budget" at any cost to those using it after handover. The construction contractors should also be apologising for the state they've left a supposedly complete building in.
Lastly from me, I'm very surprised that BA (my employer) hasn't put out full page adverts in all the papers apologising to our customers - it won't fix things but it would at least a little show that we actually care what's happened to them. A weak apology on the website and a few appaling interviews with WW just aren't enough.