MANSTON -3
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You may want to read this too for background information.
House of Commons - 9th Report - Smaller airports - Transport
House of Commons - 9th Report - Smaller airports - Transport
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Can someone tell me what is going to happen at Manston , can it be saved as an airport or is it going to housing ?.
I just keep reading news report after news report about Govt committee reports, reviews, more reports and more reviews and on it goes.
Trying to wade my way through all the woffle ans spin and everyone blaming everyone else...
can anyone say whats going to happen next please !
Nigel
I just keep reading news report after news report about Govt committee reports, reviews, more reports and more reviews and on it goes.
Trying to wade my way through all the woffle ans spin and everyone blaming everyone else...
can anyone say whats going to happen next please !
Nigel
Basically the site has been sold to a firm of developers (see post 1579) with a history in industrial parks and most of the aviation related infrastructure has been sold. The rest is just noise.
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Incorrect SWBKCB by guite a way. The new "owners" have been discredited and a massive scam and developers cover up exposed, involving local and county councils, false accounting and representation, lack of democratic process and that's just for starters. Pro airport groups numbering over 30,000 people in total have pursued this to westminster and have gained the support of ministers, mp's and the transport select committee. The fight for Manston has only just begun and will be very, very interesting. Watch this space or the Save Manston Airport.org.uk website.
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Location: EGMH..a down, not yet out, formerly awesome airfield
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PwC to report back to DfT and Thanet Council on the future of Manston Airport.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/c...view-announced
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/c...view-announced
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There is no economic case to re open Manston as an operational airport again, the airlines that were using the airport and there wasn't many of them have long gone elsewhere with no likeyhood of them returning so we should all face up to the fact that the end has come for Manston to be a viable airfield and to just allow the site to be redeveloped into housing and an industrial site which in the long term will hugely benefit the area more than one or two flights a day if the airport was to reopen.
History and nostalgia is one thing but the reality is real, there is absolutely no need what so ever for Manston to re open and the sooner people realise that the better it will be for any significant development of the site.
History and nostalgia is one thing but the reality is real, there is absolutely no need what so ever for Manston to re open and the sooner people realise that the better it will be for any significant development of the site.
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The discussion regarding this has gone full circle quiet a few times I think. From the perspective of an outsider, what I find astonishing is how much government in the UK is allowed to exert influence over, and interfere in what is essentially the sale of a private enterprise, from parliament to local council. To each country its own and I respect that but personally I much prefer the more business culture in North America, as harsh as that free market culture may seem to others.
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Update on Manston Airport, Kent.
Well, now and over the last few months, a huge amount has happened regarding Manston Airport. Here are a few updates about where we are, in getting our Manston Airport back.
All of us – Sir Roger Gale MP, the Transport Select Committee, The Department for Transport, Thanet District Council leader Iris Johnston, USA company RiverOak (still totally committed to reopening Manston despite the hurdles placed in their path by TDC), the pro-Manston groups Save Manston Airport, Supporters of Manston Airport, Think Support Manston, Why Not Manston, Manston Works and others – all are working together to Save Manston Airport, and will continue to do so. We are not going away.
The total membership of the pro-Manston Airport supporters has increased to around 30,000. The Save Manston Airport Association now has over 9,100 members.
We all gave extensive written evidence to the House of Commons Select Committee on Transport (Smaller Airports) over the Autumn and Winter, and then took a 49 seater coach-load of members up to the Select Committee at the Houses of Parliament, on 2nd February, when we the public, the “owners” and the councils gave oral evidence, on the special Smaller Airport case of Manston.
We took a further coach-load up on the 23rd February, when Robert Goodwill MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport, and Ben Smith (Deputy Director Aviation Policy and Delivery, Department for Transport) gave evidence. Others travelled by train as well on both occasions, and overflow rooms were needed at the HoP.
We do have to say we cannot be more pleased with the way the Select Committee, under Madam Chairman Louise Ellman, listened to all, considered the evidence carefully, and then reported. None of the major players escaped unscathed. Questions like “Who actually owns the Airport” and “Where did this £7m come from” and “What support has KCC given TDC” remain, as we understand, not yet fully answered to the Select Committee.
The report is published in full at the following link, but you can also read a 1 page summary as far as it affects Manston Airport :
• http://www.publications.parliament.u...an/713/713.pdf
• Smaller Airports – Manston – SMA 1 page summary
http://www.savemanstonairport.org.uk...ge-summary.pdf
Are we getting support from central Government? Certainly. Cabinet Minister Grant Shapps came down to talk with Thanet District Council, and speak with us at the Airport, in the Autumn, the Prime Minister has said he “wants it sorted”. Transport Minister John Hayes has been down numerous times to speak with TDC, and us – here he is at a surprise meeting at the Airport, talking with a few of our members.
We again went up to London on the 3rd March, with RiverOak, with MPs Sir Roger Gale and Laura Sandys, to deliver a letter to No 10 Downing St., outlining Manston Airport’s outstanding suitability as a reliever airport for the London Airports System. :
RiverOak Investments, Save Manston Airport and Why Not Manston? deliver Reliever Airport case to the Prime Minister - RiverOak Investments Corp
Now the Transport Minister has just come down to Kent again on Thursday 17th March, in bitter weather, especially to tell us that the Department for Transport have now appointed PwC to look into the matter of the Compulsory Purchase Order, and examine both RiverOak and TDC's documentation.
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1069685093057960
We expect that PwC, with revenues of £25 billion per year, and with 200,000 employees, should be able to do the job quickly.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/c...view-announced
In Sir Roger's speech he makes the crucial point that not all PwC's findings have to wait to be announced until the end :
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=961505070547292
As Sir Roger said, the urgent need is for a statement from PwC on RiverOak's suitability to be an Indemnity Partner for TDC - a company like PwC will already have extensive documentation on the Brookfield/RiverOak consortia (Brookfield have just purchased the rest of Canary Wharf for £2.6b).
Sir Roger, and John Hayes, expect a statement from PwC on this "within days". Then TDC can again meet and discuss the CPO, hopefully with the assurance that RiverOak’s statement that they will cover all the costs of the CPO stands, and that there is no way that they can be left out of pocket.
Other points I want to draw your attention to :
The Labour Shadow government appear to have woken up to what the TDC Labour group are up to : On Thursday, as well the Government Transport coming down to talk to us at Manston, the Shadow Transport minister Mr Dugher came down to visit the campaign office of South Thanet Labour candidate Will Scobie.
http://m.thanetgazette.co.uk/Shadow-...ail/story.html
But what he ended with is a lulu :
"it is really important that local residents have a big say, after all it is their area and it will be their airport."
So Manston Airport is being noticed nationally – As well as the Conservatives and Labour, UKIP also have made it their main plank down here in Thanet, and no one doubts Russ Timpson's and the Lib Dem's commitment to Manston Airport. We are indeed forging true cross-party support for Manston Airport.
Now we need Thanet District Council to listen to them all and go for the Compulsory Purchase Order.
Kind Regards, Dr. Beau Webber
Chairman, Save Manston Airport Association
All of us – Sir Roger Gale MP, the Transport Select Committee, The Department for Transport, Thanet District Council leader Iris Johnston, USA company RiverOak (still totally committed to reopening Manston despite the hurdles placed in their path by TDC), the pro-Manston groups Save Manston Airport, Supporters of Manston Airport, Think Support Manston, Why Not Manston, Manston Works and others – all are working together to Save Manston Airport, and will continue to do so. We are not going away.
The total membership of the pro-Manston Airport supporters has increased to around 30,000. The Save Manston Airport Association now has over 9,100 members.
We all gave extensive written evidence to the House of Commons Select Committee on Transport (Smaller Airports) over the Autumn and Winter, and then took a 49 seater coach-load of members up to the Select Committee at the Houses of Parliament, on 2nd February, when we the public, the “owners” and the councils gave oral evidence, on the special Smaller Airport case of Manston.
We took a further coach-load up on the 23rd February, when Robert Goodwill MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport, and Ben Smith (Deputy Director Aviation Policy and Delivery, Department for Transport) gave evidence. Others travelled by train as well on both occasions, and overflow rooms were needed at the HoP.
We do have to say we cannot be more pleased with the way the Select Committee, under Madam Chairman Louise Ellman, listened to all, considered the evidence carefully, and then reported. None of the major players escaped unscathed. Questions like “Who actually owns the Airport” and “Where did this £7m come from” and “What support has KCC given TDC” remain, as we understand, not yet fully answered to the Select Committee.
The report is published in full at the following link, but you can also read a 1 page summary as far as it affects Manston Airport :
• http://www.publications.parliament.u...an/713/713.pdf
• Smaller Airports – Manston – SMA 1 page summary
http://www.savemanstonairport.org.uk...ge-summary.pdf
Are we getting support from central Government? Certainly. Cabinet Minister Grant Shapps came down to talk with Thanet District Council, and speak with us at the Airport, in the Autumn, the Prime Minister has said he “wants it sorted”. Transport Minister John Hayes has been down numerous times to speak with TDC, and us – here he is at a surprise meeting at the Airport, talking with a few of our members.
We again went up to London on the 3rd March, with RiverOak, with MPs Sir Roger Gale and Laura Sandys, to deliver a letter to No 10 Downing St., outlining Manston Airport’s outstanding suitability as a reliever airport for the London Airports System. :
RiverOak Investments, Save Manston Airport and Why Not Manston? deliver Reliever Airport case to the Prime Minister - RiverOak Investments Corp
Now the Transport Minister has just come down to Kent again on Thursday 17th March, in bitter weather, especially to tell us that the Department for Transport have now appointed PwC to look into the matter of the Compulsory Purchase Order, and examine both RiverOak and TDC's documentation.
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1069685093057960
We expect that PwC, with revenues of £25 billion per year, and with 200,000 employees, should be able to do the job quickly.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/c...view-announced
In Sir Roger's speech he makes the crucial point that not all PwC's findings have to wait to be announced until the end :
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=961505070547292
As Sir Roger said, the urgent need is for a statement from PwC on RiverOak's suitability to be an Indemnity Partner for TDC - a company like PwC will already have extensive documentation on the Brookfield/RiverOak consortia (Brookfield have just purchased the rest of Canary Wharf for £2.6b).
Sir Roger, and John Hayes, expect a statement from PwC on this "within days". Then TDC can again meet and discuss the CPO, hopefully with the assurance that RiverOak’s statement that they will cover all the costs of the CPO stands, and that there is no way that they can be left out of pocket.
Other points I want to draw your attention to :
The Labour Shadow government appear to have woken up to what the TDC Labour group are up to : On Thursday, as well the Government Transport coming down to talk to us at Manston, the Shadow Transport minister Mr Dugher came down to visit the campaign office of South Thanet Labour candidate Will Scobie.
http://m.thanetgazette.co.uk/Shadow-...ail/story.html
But what he ended with is a lulu :
"it is really important that local residents have a big say, after all it is their area and it will be their airport."
So Manston Airport is being noticed nationally – As well as the Conservatives and Labour, UKIP also have made it their main plank down here in Thanet, and no one doubts Russ Timpson's and the Lib Dem's commitment to Manston Airport. We are indeed forging true cross-party support for Manston Airport.
Now we need Thanet District Council to listen to them all and go for the Compulsory Purchase Order.
Kind Regards, Dr. Beau Webber
Chairman, Save Manston Airport Association
Last edited by DrBeauWebber; 21st Mar 2015 at 23:47.
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you'd think there was an election coming.......
"t is really important that local residents have a big say, after all it is their area and it will be their airport."
fine as long as they pay all the costs now and in the future
"t is really important that local residents have a big say, after all it is their area and it will be their airport."
fine as long as they pay all the costs now and in the future
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Two points re the excellent summary on support for Manston.
1. PWC as agents for Infratil sold the airport to Ann Gloag. Good to see they still have their noses stuck firmly in the trough despite being at the heart of the botched original sale. Go PWC, Go! Ra-Ra-Ra!
2. Other bidders for the airport enjoyed explicit support for their business plan from KCC. Why won't RiverOak talk to these other bidders to strengthen their own business plan?
Another, unrelated, but interesting point: Charles Buchannan, ex MD at Manston and now firmly ensconced at Manston's rival Lydd (aka London Ashford International) submitted a proposal to the Davies enquiry stating that Manston was linked to London via a rail link that went via the Medway towns. One can only assume Mr Buchannan doesn't know much about railways (despite a previous role with Eurotunnel) as if you go in the opposite direction (via Canterbury and Ashford), you get to London a whole lot quicker. And with network rail committed to line improvements the journey will be sub 60 minutes by
2017. No one can be sure but misstating the rail connection time cannot have helped Manston's cause as a relief airport in front of the Davies Commission.
1. PWC as agents for Infratil sold the airport to Ann Gloag. Good to see they still have their noses stuck firmly in the trough despite being at the heart of the botched original sale. Go PWC, Go! Ra-Ra-Ra!
2. Other bidders for the airport enjoyed explicit support for their business plan from KCC. Why won't RiverOak talk to these other bidders to strengthen their own business plan?
Another, unrelated, but interesting point: Charles Buchannan, ex MD at Manston and now firmly ensconced at Manston's rival Lydd (aka London Ashford International) submitted a proposal to the Davies enquiry stating that Manston was linked to London via a rail link that went via the Medway towns. One can only assume Mr Buchannan doesn't know much about railways (despite a previous role with Eurotunnel) as if you go in the opposite direction (via Canterbury and Ashford), you get to London a whole lot quicker. And with network rail committed to line improvements the journey will be sub 60 minutes by
2017. No one can be sure but misstating the rail connection time cannot have helped Manston's cause as a relief airport in front of the Davies Commission.
^^^ What HH says!
When did Manston last make a profit? Aviation seems to be full of people with great ideas about what to do with other people's money.
When did Manston last make a profit? Aviation seems to be full of people with great ideas about what to do with other people's money.
Last edited by SWBKCB; 22nd Mar 2015 at 07:05.
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"2. Other bidders for the airport enjoyed explicit support for their business plan from KCC. Why won't RiverOak talk to these other bidders to strengthen their own business plan?"
None of the bidders offered a 25 year fully costed business plan as specified by the relevant Thanet District Council Officer : "25 year cash flow of income against costs, under different potential scenarios - using best mid and worst assumptions".
"Aviation seems to be full of people with great ideas about what to do with other people's money."
RiverOak say :
“We are firm in our belief that Manston has a viable future across many lines of air freight, aviation
services including maintenance, recycling, private charter and commercial passenger services.”
“To be clear, what is proposed involves a transfer of ALL the risk surrounding the CPO from Thanet
District Council to RiverOak. If the CPO fails for some unforeseen reason we will have to meet all the
legal costs. Similarly if the eventual price of the land is higher than expected, we will have to pay it.
We are not asking for any public funds to support this process; not from Thanet, not from KCC and
not from the British Government.”
It is their money and they are prepared to risk it.
None of the bidders offered a 25 year fully costed business plan as specified by the relevant Thanet District Council Officer : "25 year cash flow of income against costs, under different potential scenarios - using best mid and worst assumptions".
"Aviation seems to be full of people with great ideas about what to do with other people's money."
RiverOak say :
“We are firm in our belief that Manston has a viable future across many lines of air freight, aviation
services including maintenance, recycling, private charter and commercial passenger services.”
“To be clear, what is proposed involves a transfer of ALL the risk surrounding the CPO from Thanet
District Council to RiverOak. If the CPO fails for some unforeseen reason we will have to meet all the
legal costs. Similarly if the eventual price of the land is higher than expected, we will have to pay it.
We are not asking for any public funds to support this process; not from Thanet, not from KCC and
not from the British Government.”
It is their money and they are prepared to risk it.
Playing with scenarios and assumptions over that time frame might as well be a work of fiction.
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But presumably not enough money that the owners would be willing to sell it to them? They want to buy it at the price they want to pay, not what it costs.
They have offered the full asking price of £7 million. Which is also the value listed on the relevant Companies House docucuments.
They have offered the full asking price of £7 million. Which is also the value listed on the relevant Companies House docucuments.
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Readers should take care when pro-Manston lobby groups make claims of support running into the tens of thousands. Most of this support appears to exist in cyberspace and is viewed with suspicion. The recent "biggest ever rally" to mark the anniversary of closure attracted some 200 people. The only scientifically accurate data taken by the council on local opinion was regarding night flights, where the vote was 2-1 against. Be careful.
They have offered the full asking price of £7 million. Which is also the value listed on the relevant Companies House documents