MANSTON -3
Politicians can't make airlines fly there or pay the bills - more likely there will be years of argument while the airfield lies empty and nobody wins* (least of all those living locally)
*except the legal profession, which is a given...
*except the legal profession, which is a given...
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"without costing you ratepayers any money" - still telling lies about the airport costing Thanet money ? :
RiverOak : “To be clear, what is proposed involves a transfer of ALL the risk surrounding the CPO from Thanet District Council to RiverOak. If the CPO fails for some unforeseen reason we will have to meet all the legal costs. Similarly if the eventual price of the land is higher than expected, we will have to pay it.
We are not asking for any public funds to support this process; not from Thanet, not from KCC and not from the British Government.”
RiverOak : “To be clear, what is proposed involves a transfer of ALL the risk surrounding the CPO from Thanet District Council to RiverOak. If the CPO fails for some unforeseen reason we will have to meet all the legal costs. Similarly if the eventual price of the land is higher than expected, we will have to pay it.
We are not asking for any public funds to support this process; not from Thanet, not from KCC and not from the British Government.”
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Ref post 1726: that is just a recipe for throwing good money after bad. As has beeb said before, Manston has had many chances to stay open but the problems of poor surface links and lack of adequate local population are insuperable.
Last edited by kenparry; 12th May 2015 at 09:22.
Ken Parry
Riveroak want to make Manston a CARGO hub and do aircraft dismantling etc..later maybe pax flights..MANSTON had a great record of turning around cargo flights of perishable food etc and this is what RiverOak are after..not loss making pax flights as have been the case in the past
Riveroak want to make Manston a CARGO hub and do aircraft dismantling etc..later maybe pax flights..MANSTON had a great record of turning around cargo flights of perishable food etc and this is what RiverOak are after..not loss making pax flights as have been the case in the past
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Manston accounted for an average of 1.5% of UK freight volumes. The vast majority of freight is carried through the two big London airports and Manchester in non-freight dedicated a/c. The Manston situation was always precarious due to it's remote location. Freight revenues were insufficient to make the site profitable and a number of operators (MK for example) were only willing to use the site at a collossal discount. The loss of Manston has had very little impact on UK commercial aviation. Three experienced airport owners tried and failed to stem the losses. Will this real-estate company do any better?
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The irrational attempt at a CPO to please voters, will take years to wind through the courts. Meanwhile there are plentiful airports present already that are established in those areas where the proponents of Manston want to be active. For example Ostend, Belgium who also want to get into aircraft recycling, Kemble which has the salvage market already, and a plethora of cargo ports (mostly not doing well) such as Maastricht, Ostend, Liege, Frankfurt Hahn, East Midlands and others. I think the truth is, is that the Manston supporters see the airport not as a goal but as a means to resist the influx from people from London, housing, etc.
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Manston CPO
UKIP'S leader-elect for Thanet District Council, Chris Wells, has said work will start on gaining a compulsory purchase order for Manston airport in "the next seven days."
The former county councillor, who was elected to represent Cliftonville East during Ukip's landslide victory at the district election last week, said: "We have to go back through the paperwork but our election pledge was that we would start work on it in the first seven days of office and we will do that. We will be moving the CPO forward.
"There are now 51 of 56 councillors, 33 Ukip and 18 Conservatives, dedicated to getting Manston reopened."
But the majority shareholders of the Manston airport site have said the CPO is doomed to fail.
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Trevor Cartner and Chris Musgrave, who also run Discovery Park in Sandwich, issued a statement saying: "We are of the opinion that the advancement of a CPO process by the district council will fail.
"There is no foundation on which a CPO process can be progressed and this has more to do with politics than the interests of the public. If Thanet District Council continue they will have wasted taxpayers money on a venture they could not win.
"We will be announcing details of our full masterplan for the old Manston airport in the summer, when we will consult the public in detail. The new business park alone will bring world class buildings to the site and 4,000 jobs, which will ensure the economy grows in East Kent. In turn, this will secure the future of the next generation of employees."
Cllr Wells said there were other priorities for the new council, including cleaning up the towns' grot spots and making sure revisions are made to the Local Plan.
He said: "There is a public consultation due to take place in September and during that process we are required to respond to residents' views. It is pretty clear that people do not want 12,000 homes on greenfield sites and we want a reduction in those housing numbers. The infrastructure is not there to support those houses."
The father of 12 has urged residents to keep 'trust and faith' in the new councillors as they start the job in hand.
He said: "They have voted for us in very large numbers and they have trusted we will deliver on our manifesto and campaign pledges. To deliver we need that trust and faith to continue. Give us time to move forward and you will have changes in how the council is run and how it works with its residents."
Cllr Wells said the ambition was to 'have the most boring council on earth' that would concentrate on delivering services to isle residents.
Read more: Ukip leader-elect vows Manston CPO work will begin in days | Thanet Gazette
The former county councillor, who was elected to represent Cliftonville East during Ukip's landslide victory at the district election last week, said: "We have to go back through the paperwork but our election pledge was that we would start work on it in the first seven days of office and we will do that. We will be moving the CPO forward.
"There are now 51 of 56 councillors, 33 Ukip and 18 Conservatives, dedicated to getting Manston reopened."
But the majority shareholders of the Manston airport site have said the CPO is doomed to fail.
.text-links-grid .videoCube { height: 4.7em; } .text-links-grid .trc_rbox_header_span, .trc_spotlight_widget .trc_rbox_header_span { font-family: 'verb_regularbold',Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 18px; margin-left: 10px; } .text-links-grid { margin-top: 20px; width: 100%; }
Trevor Cartner and Chris Musgrave, who also run Discovery Park in Sandwich, issued a statement saying: "We are of the opinion that the advancement of a CPO process by the district council will fail.
"There is no foundation on which a CPO process can be progressed and this has more to do with politics than the interests of the public. If Thanet District Council continue they will have wasted taxpayers money on a venture they could not win.
"We will be announcing details of our full masterplan for the old Manston airport in the summer, when we will consult the public in detail. The new business park alone will bring world class buildings to the site and 4,000 jobs, which will ensure the economy grows in East Kent. In turn, this will secure the future of the next generation of employees."
Cllr Wells said there were other priorities for the new council, including cleaning up the towns' grot spots and making sure revisions are made to the Local Plan.
He said: "There is a public consultation due to take place in September and during that process we are required to respond to residents' views. It is pretty clear that people do not want 12,000 homes on greenfield sites and we want a reduction in those housing numbers. The infrastructure is not there to support those houses."
The father of 12 has urged residents to keep 'trust and faith' in the new councillors as they start the job in hand.
He said: "They have voted for us in very large numbers and they have trusted we will deliver on our manifesto and campaign pledges. To deliver we need that trust and faith to continue. Give us time to move forward and you will have changes in how the council is run and how it works with its residents."
Cllr Wells said the ambition was to 'have the most boring council on earth' that would concentrate on delivering services to isle residents.
Read more: Ukip leader-elect vows Manston CPO work will begin in days | Thanet Gazette
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I think this is going to end up very ugly for the council, possibly bankruptcy.
I'm not one for pessimism but Manston has been tried before by three companies, Wiggins, Infratil and Stagecoach (tenuous), and all three companies got their hands burnt.
It they make it work, well done, pats on the back to all around but I just can't see it working. There's not much wealth in Planet Thanet to justify an airport on their doorstep.
It's a shame but the reality is what it is.
I'm not one for pessimism but Manston has been tried before by three companies, Wiggins, Infratil and Stagecoach (tenuous), and all three companies got their hands burnt.
It they make it work, well done, pats on the back to all around but I just can't see it working. There's not much wealth in Planet Thanet to justify an airport on their doorstep.
It's a shame but the reality is what it is.
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The reason all the above failed was they didn't diversify enough. Wiggins went down because of EUJET. Infratil didn't invest anything as they went after a lot of airports, bought then on the cheap and then couldn't afford to run them properly. Stagecoach had their own agenda!If someone ran the airport properly,invested in people and infrastructure and focussed solely on the airport with diversity, then, they could probably make it work. Airports alone do not make money. The money is made from other businesses on or connected to the airport. Forget passenger services. Get a 24 hr licence, offer freight, training, dismantling, diversion facilities etc and use the unused land for industrial and housing or whatever. Market the place properly too. It's never had good marketing. Whoever buys it will have to throw £££££££££ at it to make it work, but, if it's done well no reason why it can't work. Don't expect to make shed loads of cash, be prepared and financed for a long run and be prepared for a long term investment. Good luck!
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Get a 24 hr licence
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Ever heard of Return of investment?
Who is prepared to sink say £50/100 million in buying the airport, the equipment and employing the required personnel, their training, clothing etc, only to find that there's no commercial or general aviation customers willing to fly from the new airport.
But if they do come, how much are you going to make after depreciation, amortisation and taxes?(EBITDA) £500k? £1m?
Wouldn't you, as a banker, put your money somewhere else, which will get a better return? A business that is already established something with a PROVEN track record?
We're not out of the financial crisis woods yet, and the banker's mood isn't bullish at the moment and they would want to see a fully costed business plan that would include what appetite there is for aviation companies to move to Manston.
Maybe before the Council carry out a CPO, they first look around at the rest of the airport industry and see what a tenuous state it is in .
Who is prepared to sink say £50/100 million in buying the airport, the equipment and employing the required personnel, their training, clothing etc, only to find that there's no commercial or general aviation customers willing to fly from the new airport.
But if they do come, how much are you going to make after depreciation, amortisation and taxes?(EBITDA) £500k? £1m?
Wouldn't you, as a banker, put your money somewhere else, which will get a better return? A business that is already established something with a PROVEN track record?
We're not out of the financial crisis woods yet, and the banker's mood isn't bullish at the moment and they would want to see a fully costed business plan that would include what appetite there is for aviation companies to move to Manston.
Maybe before the Council carry out a CPO, they first look around at the rest of the airport industry and see what a tenuous state it is in .
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Pottwiddler...
Stagecoach, in whatever form they were in when they bought it, never gave it a go at being a success. They planned to shut it the day they 'bought' it.
Secondly, the council stumps up no money, the Americans fund the whole thing.
Stagecoach, in whatever form they were in when they bought it, never gave it a go at being a success. They planned to shut it the day they 'bought' it.
Secondly, the council stumps up no money, the Americans fund the whole thing.
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Thanet Council recently commissioned Falcon consultancy to investigate the future viability of Manston. The report concluded 100's of millions of pounds would be needed over at least 20 years and there was no guarantee of success. The council commissioned their own officers to investigate Riveroak who found them to be an unsuitable indemnity partner for a CPO. The airport has been market tested by some extremely competent owner/operators for 15 years and has failed. The only reason this saga continues is because of the political rhetoric of ambitious local politicians. The problem is that these politicians are delaying the economic regeneration of this site by the new owners- probably by several years, and they will be called to account for this in future. The loss of Manston has had zero impact on commercial aviation and Kent's future aviation needs will be met by the London airports and by Lydd. Manston was a great location for tactical short range military operations during two European wars but is a proven failure as a 21st century commercial facility. Time to move on.
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Thanet Council recently commissioned Falcon consultancy to investigate the future viability of Manston. The report concluded 100's of millions of pounds would be needed over at least 20 years and there was no guarantee of success. The council commissioned their own officers to investigate Riveroak who found them to be an unsuitable indemnity partner for a CPO.
The landscape has now changed. Anything that has the previous ruling council's monica on it regarding Manston Airport will probably be in the skip, heading there for landfill or in deep storage, if rejected by the new Ukip administration..
Times have changed.
Last edited by IB4138; 16th May 2015 at 09:33.
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You seem to be suggesting corruption in the council's commissioning of the Falcon report. This is a serious accusation and could have legal implications for anybody involved in this accusation. What facts do you have to back this up?