Aer Lingus - 5
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Bad times indeed. BBC is reporting now: BBC NEWS | Northern Ireland | Aer Lingus axes up to 1,500 jobs
I would not want to be on the firing line of union action there...
I would not want to be on the firing line of union action there...
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pulling off the SNN - LHR was just to stick to the Govt becasue they wouldn't agree to the 330s bypassing SNN completely.
I used that route regularly and it was always busy.
I used that route regularly and it was always busy.
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I have to disagree with that, Slim Shady; that decision was taken after Open Skies came in, which allowed EI to bypass SNN on t/a flights as much as it wanted.
That said, its handling of the whole SNN issue was a PR disaster, made worse by comments by various govt ministers that it would be willing to use its shareholding to protect ORK and DUB slots (but not SNN's)... boy, will they pay for that next time in any election or by-election.
That said, its handling of the whole SNN issue was a PR disaster, made worse by comments by various govt ministers that it would be willing to use its shareholding to protect ORK and DUB slots (but not SNN's)... boy, will they pay for that next time in any election or by-election.
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Where Oh where is Capt Kremin ?
He is very good at posturing and pontificating on RYR business, but is strangely silent on this threat to his cosy
" world model", which is rather closer to home.
He is very good at posturing and pontificating on RYR business, but is strangely silent on this threat to his cosy
" world model", which is rather closer to home.
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The more they " slash & burn " the cheaper our beloved MOL will pick it up for, we will hear from Capt K then I guess (or not
)
In the same vein as politicians, these bean-counter types only look as far as the end of their contract/term in office and how many acorns they can stash away for themselves in the meantime.
Twas ever thus, the long term future is of total irrelevance in comparison to trousering as much as possible as quickly as possible.
No honour among thieves, and as you say "unity" is only within selected groups, not some common goal.
As in all socialist/ communist societies some are "more equal" than others.
)In the same vein as politicians, these bean-counter types only look as far as the end of their contract/term in office and how many acorns they can stash away for themselves in the meantime.
Twas ever thus, the long term future is of total irrelevance in comparison to trousering as much as possible as quickly as possible.
No honour among thieves, and as you say "unity" is only within selected groups, not some common goal.
As in all socialist/ communist societies some are "more equal" than others.
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Well, the future is that there is no future for a professional level of remuneration as an airline pilot. It's not me saying that but the Chairman of Aer Lingus, who I think I am right in saying also runs a bank or finance house that funds aircraft leases and purchasing.
At a London dinner I heard him tell a questioner that: "just because a job has been well paid in the past there is absolutely no reason for it to go on being so".
He went on to say that there were: "thousand of Indians and Chinese with the qualifications to fly an airliner and they would do the job for way, way less than is paid in North Western economies".
This drew an audible intake of breath from the audience both for the, (AND I EMHASISE THIS POINT), potentially racist nature of what he had said and the shock to a largely professional pilot audience that their professional lives were a waste of time in financial terms as far as he was concerned.
I emphasise that the speaker went on to say that he had not meant what he said to sound racist, and I genuinely believe that he had not meant to give that meaning to what he said. That said, it could be interpreted that way by some.
His views seem to be that the business model under which airlines work is designed to create, ultimately, a last-man-standing scenario, where the terms to customers and employees alike are dictatable in a given market sector by the last airline that survives. His assumption going forward is that a) the airline will massacre terms and conditions for pilots as a matter of business expediency in the long run and, b), of necessity in the short run.
Meanwhile, as entrants to the market for airline pilots dry up, he believes that either the job will be off-shored or immigrants will come in and take the jobs on the drastically lower terms he forsees being offered.
I must say he seemed to evince a disdain for the job that so many airline managers have that run very deep indeed. His questioner was visibly shocked by his replies and what he was told by him after the formal part of the evening was over - I know as I went over and spoke to the questioner after the dinner was over.
In my view these people, financiers and airline managers, see the job as no more than driving a lorry or a bus and in fact some people earning in those fields get more than certain turboprop FO's get now.
I think they have zero understanding of the subtleties of the job that have made it the safest form of transportation in human history, and I do not believe that immigrants will come to live in the high cost North West of Europe in order to be paid peanuts and live like paupers. There is enough demand back home, if expansion in India and China are anything to go by.
I forsee a massive cull of T's and C's, to the point where no-one who is sane and needs a proper career will enter the market and, in the end, when that lack of new entrants manifests itself in grounded hulls and a massive dilution of the overall experience base, the worm will turn again and salaries once again reflect the nature of the job - a deadly serious business with the lives of passengers and the financial future of the company at stake every time a license holder gets airborne.
Meanwhile, fat-cat bankers will go on sneering at professional pilots and enjoying lifestyles that make everyone not in a SUCCESFUL area of the finance business look a fool.
At a London dinner I heard him tell a questioner that: "just because a job has been well paid in the past there is absolutely no reason for it to go on being so".
He went on to say that there were: "thousand of Indians and Chinese with the qualifications to fly an airliner and they would do the job for way, way less than is paid in North Western economies".
This drew an audible intake of breath from the audience both for the, (AND I EMHASISE THIS POINT), potentially racist nature of what he had said and the shock to a largely professional pilot audience that their professional lives were a waste of time in financial terms as far as he was concerned.
I emphasise that the speaker went on to say that he had not meant what he said to sound racist, and I genuinely believe that he had not meant to give that meaning to what he said. That said, it could be interpreted that way by some.
His views seem to be that the business model under which airlines work is designed to create, ultimately, a last-man-standing scenario, where the terms to customers and employees alike are dictatable in a given market sector by the last airline that survives. His assumption going forward is that a) the airline will massacre terms and conditions for pilots as a matter of business expediency in the long run and, b), of necessity in the short run.
Meanwhile, as entrants to the market for airline pilots dry up, he believes that either the job will be off-shored or immigrants will come in and take the jobs on the drastically lower terms he forsees being offered.
I must say he seemed to evince a disdain for the job that so many airline managers have that run very deep indeed. His questioner was visibly shocked by his replies and what he was told by him after the formal part of the evening was over - I know as I went over and spoke to the questioner after the dinner was over.
In my view these people, financiers and airline managers, see the job as no more than driving a lorry or a bus and in fact some people earning in those fields get more than certain turboprop FO's get now.
I think they have zero understanding of the subtleties of the job that have made it the safest form of transportation in human history, and I do not believe that immigrants will come to live in the high cost North West of Europe in order to be paid peanuts and live like paupers. There is enough demand back home, if expansion in India and China are anything to go by.
I forsee a massive cull of T's and C's, to the point where no-one who is sane and needs a proper career will enter the market and, in the end, when that lack of new entrants manifests itself in grounded hulls and a massive dilution of the overall experience base, the worm will turn again and salaries once again reflect the nature of the job - a deadly serious business with the lives of passengers and the financial future of the company at stake every time a license holder gets airborne.
Meanwhile, fat-cat bankers will go on sneering at professional pilots and enjoying lifestyles that make everyone not in a SUCCESFUL area of the finance business look a fool.
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these are the managers that uriniate in their suits and have follow throughs when landing in stormy weather. I'd love to see how an immigrant of eastern origin handles a jet/turbo prop in our foul winter storms. I think there will be the mother of all strikes in AL and thats want these managers want...it's a plan and now is their opportunity. Never would they have got this shaft of light to bludgeon the work force if the economic climate was not on its hands and knees. .....very sad days indeed and worse pain is to come.
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9/11 was an excuse for many unscrupulous companies/managers to do what they couldn't previously justify doing , i.e. to trample over everyone's conditions and reduce the workforce to the minimum, and then a little more besides.
This is no different really. Yes many companies have, and more will, go to the wall. It isn't just about losing money though, it's a god given opportunity for some sharp shooters to impose a " new order".
This is no different really. Yes many companies have, and more will, go to the wall. It isn't just about losing money though, it's a god given opportunity for some sharp shooters to impose a " new order".
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Aer Lingus
I think in Dublin a lot of passengers will look to book their flights on different airlines to Aer Lingus until the whole saga is over.People can't afford to wait until a day or two before a strike is due to take affect for an agreement to be in place.With Xmas coming up fast I feel Ryanair will pick up a lot of Aer Lingus booking !!!!
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Well said shortfinalfred
I have massive respect for pilots
But the public opinion is well watered down as far as pilots go and i believe the low cost model is to blame i can fly to europe from dublin almost as cheap as the bus donegal so its not like it used to be... a big deal to fly when i started travelling the crew always got a round of applause after landing i cant remember the last time heard that !!
i believe if you are getting a service provided by someone who spent time putting that skill between there ears the u should show respect ...
I have massive respect for pilots
But the public opinion is well watered down as far as pilots go and i believe the low cost model is to blame i can fly to europe from dublin almost as cheap as the bus donegal so its not like it used to be... a big deal to fly when i started travelling the crew always got a round of applause after landing i cant remember the last time heard that !!
i believe if you are getting a service provided by someone who spent time putting that skill between there ears the u should show respect ...
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You should fly Ryanair with Spanish / Italian pax down the back, frequent applause ( the harder the landing the louder the clapping 
) don't know if it is appreciation or relief mind you ? 
) don't know if it is appreciation or relief mind you ?
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Aer Lingus ups long-haul fuel surcharge again
Wednesday, 4 June 2008 15:06
Aer Lingus is to increase its long-haul fuel surcharge on routes to the US again. This latest increase comes less than a month after the airline upped the charges for the seventh time since May 2006.
The increase will be effective from Wednesday June 11. Aer Lingus says it is due to the continuing increases in the price of oil in recent weeks.
The fuel surcharge on flights to and from New York, Boston and Washington will increase from €65/$100 to €75/$115 each way. Flights to and from Chicago will increase from €65/$110 to €75/$125 per flight.
'With jet fuel prices reaching unprecedented levels, increasing by 13 % month on month May over April, we have been driven to increase our fuel surcharge on long haul flights once again', commented Aer Lingus Corporate Affairs Director, Enda Corneille.
'Today's fuel surcharge increases reflect the continuing pressure the high price of oil is having on our long haul operation,' he said.
He said the airline will keep the level of the surcharges under constant review and make adjustments where appropriate.
So even though Oil has gradually gone down over the past couple of months, and it now laying at its lowest level in almost a year, Aer Lingus still dont see fit to reduce the fuel surcharge! How does Aer Lingus justify having the surcharges at $145 a barrel oil when its sitting at $86 a barrell.
Wednesday, 4 June 2008 15:06
Aer Lingus is to increase its long-haul fuel surcharge on routes to the US again. This latest increase comes less than a month after the airline upped the charges for the seventh time since May 2006.
The increase will be effective from Wednesday June 11. Aer Lingus says it is due to the continuing increases in the price of oil in recent weeks.
The fuel surcharge on flights to and from New York, Boston and Washington will increase from €65/$100 to €75/$115 each way. Flights to and from Chicago will increase from €65/$110 to €75/$125 per flight.
'With jet fuel prices reaching unprecedented levels, increasing by 13 % month on month May over April, we have been driven to increase our fuel surcharge on long haul flights once again', commented Aer Lingus Corporate Affairs Director, Enda Corneille.
'Today's fuel surcharge increases reflect the continuing pressure the high price of oil is having on our long haul operation,' he said.
He said the airline will keep the level of the surcharges under constant review and make adjustments where appropriate.
So even though Oil has gradually gone down over the past couple of months, and it now laying at its lowest level in almost a year, Aer Lingus still dont see fit to reduce the fuel surcharge! How does Aer Lingus justify having the surcharges at $145 a barrel oil when its sitting at $86 a barrell.
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there was an interesting piece on the EI cost cutting on RTE on Tuesday. Can't find a link but the general thrust of what I heard was the timing of the cuts are crucial for EI. In December a new ruling comes into force(stemming from the Irish Ferries saga), that will ban contract workers crossing pickets. So if Aer Lingus can't get their cuts in place by then, they are completely snookered if the staff go on strike and is the reason they are pushing for this to be in place by November. Anyone know the full details of this or see this story? Didnt get the full report so sorry for half information but have I got this right?
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Aer Lingus probably hedged fuel at a higher price so at the moment the current drop in oil has very little positive impact for them. If oil continues to fall they will be able to get it cheaper and the surcharge will drop as it has done in the past with Aer Lingus.
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@VKID
This is link to story you are refering to on RTE News. It opens in Realplayer.
RTÉ.ie Media Player: Six One News 7 October 2008
RTÉ.ie Media Player: Six One News 7 October 2008
Last edited by CorkEICK; 9th Oct 2008 at 15:54. Reason: correction to link