Aer Lingus - 5
Join Date: Jul 2007
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EI-BUD - It was still a ridiculous and expensive way of cutting costs at SNN. The anchor route thing is nonsense to be honest and as many others (more qualified than me) have said time and time again many poor decisions were made setting up Belfast and route selection was one...LHR was also already well served from BFS.
Aside from anything else, it is well documented that EI never approached the SAA think regarding costs previous to cutting the route...that should have been their first move..then pull the routes if discounts are not forthcoming. There are very few people that would consider the BFS/LHR/SNN episode good business practice in any situation.
Its pointless getting into this again, personally i just think its indicative of very poor management and planning across the board at EI
Aside from anything else, it is well documented that EI never approached the SAA think regarding costs previous to cutting the route...that should have been their first move..then pull the routes if discounts are not forthcoming. There are very few people that would consider the BFS/LHR/SNN episode good business practice in any situation.
Its pointless getting into this again, personally i just think its indicative of very poor management and planning across the board at EI
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LHR was also already well served from BFS.
EZY do BFS to Gatwick, Luton and Stansted. No Heathrow.
Its only bmi from Belfast City to LHR, so for those in the North West of NI and the ROI, Heathrow from Aldergrove could be much more convenient, and now those passengers in the rest of Northern Ireland have a choice of carrier.
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Could a A321 be reconfigured for a SNN-ORD?
Join Date: Nov 2006
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The anchor route thing is nonsense to be honest and as many others (more qualified than me) have said time and time again many poor decisions were made setting up Belfast and route selection was one...LHR was also already well served from BFS.
All that said, Aer Lingus has a fundamental challenge in that they need new markets to grow and diversify there risk, ie being over reliant on the home market ie ROI. That said I believe that any market they go to wont be any different. The big rush for Ireland and UK bases has happened over the last decade so no matter where Aer Lingus turn to they will be met with fierce opposition. Easyjet will keep the heat on and the experience for Aer Lingus is not going to get any easier. So if we balance this thinking with any decisions that managements take we could easily say that it was bad management.
Yes you are correct, Aer Lingus didnt negotiate with SAA prior to exiting SNN LHR but my point was that at the heels of the hunt as it were they restarted the route with what many say is on a much more cost effective footing.
What Aer Lingus need now is a firm plan and this has to be around being lower cost, but they also need a point of difference and in my opinion while i like them they dont have one.
They could take alot of learnings from Flybe in terms of some smaller aircraft and being clever about being able to compete.
What do you think?
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Nonsense may not have been the right word but i was at work so...
Without dwelling too much on the Shannon Belfast thing(its been done to death), I do agree that Belfast offered a larger potential market to EI than Shannon. No brainer BUT the way the whole episode was handled from start to finish was very poor. They could have done it a lot more intelligently and probably made more money if they were a bit smarter, and avoided the whole debacle that followed. Realistically the slots could have been kept in Shannon and Belfast also served. If it can be done now you wonder why it wasn't then.
To me from a general business point of view it was indicative of poor management at the time, badly planned, badly co-ordinated and badly executed.
I agree they do need a plan and fast, and they need to be a lot smarter and innovative and thats something they havent done very well to date in my own opinion. I also think they really need to decide what they want to be...Lo Cost, Long Haul, Lo Cost long haul..they seem aimless really for the last while. Jack of all trades master of none is a phrase that springs to mind
Without dwelling too much on the Shannon Belfast thing(its been done to death), I do agree that Belfast offered a larger potential market to EI than Shannon. No brainer BUT the way the whole episode was handled from start to finish was very poor. They could have done it a lot more intelligently and probably made more money if they were a bit smarter, and avoided the whole debacle that followed. Realistically the slots could have been kept in Shannon and Belfast also served. If it can be done now you wonder why it wasn't then.
To me from a general business point of view it was indicative of poor management at the time, badly planned, badly co-ordinated and badly executed.
I agree they do need a plan and fast, and they need to be a lot smarter and innovative and thats something they havent done very well to date in my own opinion. I also think they really need to decide what they want to be...Lo Cost, Long Haul, Lo Cost long haul..they seem aimless really for the last while. Jack of all trades master of none is a phrase that springs to mind
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A friend of mine who works for them, says the current routes out of Lgw are really struggling at the moment, Never had over 100 pax on her flights and they seat 174, even went as low as 17 on the Fao the other day! How much longer are they going to keep trying these routes, before they give up?
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I've heard of similar low loads, sometimes less than 20 passengers however I do not believe that they've never seen over 100, actually Aer Lingus found themselves sold out on Malaga and Nice over the May bank holiday and half term break, Vienna and Zurich have also seen reasonably healthy loads and in April Knock had a near 70% load factor so that goes against a lot of what has been said by certain people.
I'm honestly quite surprised at how much negativity people on here have towards Aer Lingus at Gatwick, mainly from Gatwick locals. Aer Lingus have created jobs, invested money and opened new routes to offer people but all I seem to hear is people basically telling Aer Lingus to go away. Sad.
That is no way directed at you c.r.m what is it just an observation I've had since the base was announced.
I'm honestly quite surprised at how much negativity people on here have towards Aer Lingus at Gatwick, mainly from Gatwick locals. Aer Lingus have created jobs, invested money and opened new routes to offer people but all I seem to hear is people basically telling Aer Lingus to go away. Sad.
That is no way directed at you c.r.m what is it just an observation I've had since the base was announced.
Join Date: Oct 1999
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Loads ex LGW have been very good recently - last Sunday, both the ZRH and MUC had over 150, with the late MUC arriving back to LGW with almost 170 pax.
Bank holiday weekends, and half term kids holidays have pushed up the pax figures.
Bank holiday weekends, and half term kids holidays have pushed up the pax figures.
Join Date: Apr 1999
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It can be done on the A321 but only with the extra tanks. Any further than BOS would be a push depending on the winds.
Throw business seats in and you'd end up with about a capacity of only about 160.
Throw business seats in and you'd end up with about a capacity of only about 160.
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envious crowd at easy?
Allow yourself to catch a grip of reality. If easy can box BA into a corner they are unlikely to be concerned about a relative minnow such as EI. They will however make it incredibly difficult for them to make any money
Allow yourself to catch a grip of reality. If easy can box BA into a corner they are unlikely to be concerned about a relative minnow such as EI. They will however make it incredibly difficult for them to make any money
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Envious crowd at Easy, you having a laugh..
Bank holidays and kids holidays, think you might need to fill them at other times apart from that.
Easy have nearly as many A/C at LGW as EI do in there whole fleet,
Dont think Easy will start worrying yet..
Bank holidays and kids holidays, think you might need to fill them at other times apart from that.
Easy have nearly as many A/C at LGW as EI do in there whole fleet,
Dont think Easy will start worrying yet..
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Envious crowds at LGW? I doubt EZY is envious, I would say they are more annoyed. They boxed BA in at LGW, which wasnt very hard, but EI are going to be a thorn in there side. LGW is a big market, and there is room for both carriers. EZY has just had LGW to themselves for to long!
.
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So when the EI crowd on here start bashing FR, It's because they are envious, right I get it now.
Aer Lingus on the other hand is very much the underdog, they've started a few routes, based a few aircraft, invested money and created jobs in the area but still people on here, many of them Gatwick locals seem to be very negative about them. Surely most people would be happy to see a new airline creating jobs, offering routes and lowering fares at their local airport? That's made me come to conclusion that they work for easyJet or possibly other airlines who would like nothing more than to see Aer Lingus fail.
Ezy are interesting they dont seem to react when they are not provoked.
I call you back
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EI-RB does not represent any 'Aer Lingus crowd'.
He has made wild accusations about nepotism and secret hirings at Aer Lingus in the past that were way off the mark.
He recently suggested that posters who were attacking Mannion would all be proved wrong by the great man. So much for that.
I would be certain he is not and never was an EI pilot (a chip?) and I believe he doesn't even work for EI (any more).
He has made wild accusations about nepotism and secret hirings at Aer Lingus in the past that were way off the mark.
He recently suggested that posters who were attacking Mannion would all be proved wrong by the great man. So much for that.
I would be certain he is not and never was an EI pilot (a chip?) and I believe he doesn't even work for EI (any more).
Aer Lingus have managed to successfully carve a space in Dublin against Ryanair.
Reality is Aer Lingus could have done what Ryanair sone with the right management and strategic thought. There were too many vested interests getting what they could get out of it rather than thinking of its long term future.