Alitalia (Merged)
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Alitalia is one of the world's larger airlines, so I'm not at all sure about the logic of moving this out of Rumours etc so quickly. This will impact an a large chunk of the European travel market and I would have thought made a major impact on the biz plans of the LoCo and others.
Not to mention the career plans of many of those in the European airline industry.
But I did see that Zoom went the same way so I presume that there is a rule here.
Not to mention the career plans of many of those in the European airline industry.
But I did see that Zoom went the same way so I presume that there is a rule here.
Join Date: May 2008
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Just heard that it seems that Aer Lingus seem to be in a bad way as well. I can honestly say if your going to survive in the present climate you need to merge with another airline. Its a big world out there and safety in numbers seems to work. I know Virgin posted profits however maybe its time to find a brother.. Good luck everyone...and good luck to the guys at Zoom...
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Aer Lingus - hmmm. MO'L's one weak spot is his love for all things Irish over business logic. Wil he now try to take over Air Lingus with its utterly different business model and mixed fleet? Never made sense, even less now.
Join Date: Jul 2000
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Alitalia have been close to bankruptcy since 1951. The Italian taxpayer has bailed it out to the tune of many billions of lira and not quite so many euros.
The company is a basket case and always will be until it is allowed to go under, as it should have in 1952!
The company is a basket case and always will be until it is allowed to go under, as it should have in 1952!
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Alitalia is in Berlusconi's pocket. It was used as part of his re-election campaign that he would not allow the Italian National Carrier to go down.
Berlusconi will just ignore Brussels as he has ignored them so many times before. He has, personally and through the government, bailed Alitalia out.
All we are seeing here is the same as happened to Parmalat, but with aircraft.
Best of luck to them, at least we won't see the Italians bleating about fuel surcharge fixing whilst their airlines are in bankruptcy protection, that's reserved for the 'level playing field' Americans.
Berlusconi will just ignore Brussels as he has ignored them so many times before. He has, personally and through the government, bailed Alitalia out.
All we are seeing here is the same as happened to Parmalat, but with aircraft.
Best of luck to them, at least we won't see the Italians bleating about fuel surcharge fixing whilst their airlines are in bankruptcy protection, that's reserved for the 'level playing field' Americans.
It´s true that the Berlusconi government changed the so-called Marzano bankruptcy law so it can be used to save Alitalia, by getting rid of the unprofitable parts and debts, but there are also some 16 private Italian investors plus some banks about to make an investment into "new Alitalia" of some 1 billion € which can´t be touched for 5 years, and that´s private money, so: as long as it´s not another government bailout I don´t think the EU can do anything about it. What remains to be seen is how the unions will react to the necessary redundancies. 5000 or more are expected to get the axe according to this plan prepared by Bank Intesa Sanpaolo.
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Whats this aer lingus stuff thrown into this pot for? yeap they are hurtin like a cut cat but so is every one. They have resources to pull through unlike others. They need to attack their cost base again but they are by no means on their last legs or near it.
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Signore Colaninno was quite correct in pointing out that there's not much left, but clearly Berlusconi thinks different. But, if the Italian sentiment by my Italian colleagues is anything to go by, he'll do anything to stay in power and in the news, even if it costs the Italian taxpayer billions in Euros.
As for Aer Lingus, they survived 9/11, they will survive the fuel crisis too. They're already charging for anything and everything extra that they can...
S.
As for Aer Lingus, they survived 9/11, they will survive the fuel crisis too. They're already charging for anything and everything extra that they can...
S.
This article by Airwise news describes nicely where Alitalia is at present:
Alitalia Seeks Bankruptcy Protection, Rescuers Ready
Alitalia Seeks Bankruptcy Protection, Rescuers Ready
Join Date: Nov 2007
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The scheme is, when you look at it, a subsidy of one billion Euros to Alitalia. A sort of new company is set up, with the State paying the current Alitalia debt of 1.1 or 1.2 billions Euro. That comes after the 300 millions injected in Alitalia in May of this year. I can't figure out how the European commission could led this go through without incurring penalties.
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So, Alitalia has been given its umpteenth reprieve from what should be its real faith (insolvency). As a European I am continually astounded by what Italy is allowed to get away with. This trick of splitting the company in two parts has been done before (at another treasure in our business, Olympic Airlines). One part taking all the losses with it, while the other part takes what are supposed to be the viable bits. All this means is that Alitalia will be back for more in a few years, taking Berlusconi (a perfect representative for Italy), at least into two more election (following its historical trend).
You might wonder why I am concerned about this development. Well it is simple, it skews the playing field in our business. My airline did the tough stuff, took the hits, right sized and took great leaps in its efficiency. Alitalia is like a small child who refuses to grow up. It is still operates as a government airline, bloated by too much staff, and is very inefficient. Any other airline would have been forced to shut its doors, but this outfit just gets injection after injection of cash through the government. This latest “rescue” is being fronted by some big Italian conglomerates who have been arm twisted into putting up one billion Euros. Following the cash will undoubtedly lead back to the Italian tax payer or worse. This is harming the legitimate airlines in Europe. I just don’t understand why the European commission isn’t able to crack down on these practices, and because of this undermines its own legitimacy to rule over us. I for one would like to see the commission getting off their rear ends and getting to the bottom of this whole deal, and show some backbone towards the Italian way of doing business!
You might wonder why I am concerned about this development. Well it is simple, it skews the playing field in our business. My airline did the tough stuff, took the hits, right sized and took great leaps in its efficiency. Alitalia is like a small child who refuses to grow up. It is still operates as a government airline, bloated by too much staff, and is very inefficient. Any other airline would have been forced to shut its doors, but this outfit just gets injection after injection of cash through the government. This latest “rescue” is being fronted by some big Italian conglomerates who have been arm twisted into putting up one billion Euros. Following the cash will undoubtedly lead back to the Italian tax payer or worse. This is harming the legitimate airlines in Europe. I just don’t understand why the European commission isn’t able to crack down on these practices, and because of this undermines its own legitimacy to rule over us. I for one would like to see the commission getting off their rear ends and getting to the bottom of this whole deal, and show some backbone towards the Italian way of doing business!
I for one would like to see the commission getting off their rear ends and getting to the bottom of this whole deal, and show some backbone towards the Italian way of doing business!
Both Alitalia and Olympic have been basket cases for years, but they are useful places to staff with the relatives and friends of those in power, which is good for votes. Within those countries there is still a certain amount of kudos (free trips, upgrades, good pensions etc.), in working for the national carrier, so not much will change.
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Most of your posts are just bull****, Alitalia did not file for bankrupcy protection, they filed for insolvency, which means that an administrator will try to find a solution for the company and see what will be possible to do (find investors, sell part of the company etc).
It is compleatly different from Chapter 11 in the US and it had to be done due to the present situation according to the law.
Alitalia will not be sold to LH, AF or BA, a new company will be created and take just the airline from Alitalia and will also buy AirOne, this new airline will be the new flag carrier of italy and of course they are looking to find a partner like AF or LH.
It is compleatly different from Chapter 11 in the US and it had to be done due to the present situation according to the law.
Alitalia will not be sold to LH, AF or BA, a new company will be created and take just the airline from Alitalia and will also buy AirOne, this new airline will be the new flag carrier of italy and of course they are looking to find a partner like AF or LH.
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You can give a turd any name you want to, in the end it is still a turd. Alitalia does not deserve another chance, they have had more than their share, and this turd mangling that the Italians are doing is a profound national shame!
Last edited by Otterman; 31st Aug 2008 at 04:59.
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Originally Posted by Otterman
This latest “rescue” is being fronted by some big Italian conglomerates who have been arm twisted into putting up one billion Euros. Following the cash will undoubtedly lead back to the Italian tax payer or worse. This is harming the legitimate airlines in Europe.