Alitalia (Merged)
Join Date: May 2004
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-Salary reduction around 40%
-Days off down to 30 in a three month period, a minimum of 8 per month of which 7 "movable" (usable). Only 1 day non movable
-Holidays down to 30 from 42
-company contribution to the Pension Fund down to 2% from 7.28%.
Just to list a few of the new conditions that would have brought our contract back to Middle Age, with very little or none Union representation.
-Days off down to 30 in a three month period, a minimum of 8 per month of which 7 "movable" (usable). Only 1 day non movable
-Holidays down to 30 from 42
-company contribution to the Pension Fund down to 2% from 7.28%.
Just to list a few of the new conditions that would have brought our contract back to Middle Age, with very little or none Union representation.
This is the kind of contract in AirOne, Volare, MyAir, Eurofly etc......all poor midevel pilots.
Good luck, if you find someone who gives you the same condition as you have...let me know.
So Air One is rolled into AZ, debt is written off to the "bad company" spin-off and presto
Join Date: Jun 2006
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oh come on. lets cut through a lot of the bull on here! does anyone really expect Alitalia to go down? no ways in my opinion (as cabin crew so sorry to those who will say I don't belong here) the government will bail them out, always have, always will. company will probably shut down, restructure and open up the next day. it's been done before and will happen always I suppose. It's business folks. and now I will retreat with a fixed smile and wish you well
Join Date: Mar 2005
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it always amazes me when a "midlevel pilot" instead of trying to improve his working conditions seems to be happy when somebody elses, better, conditions go down the drain.
I think you should stay where you are and stuck with your conditions.
It's now time for a national contract, for the totality of the italian pilots, if and when we get one, I hope it will be closer to my idea of a contract for an airline Pilot, than to yours. And if you don't like it you can always reject it.
ciao midlevel pilot
I think you should stay where you are and stuck with your conditions.
It's now time for a national contract, for the totality of the italian pilots, if and when we get one, I hope it will be closer to my idea of a contract for an airline Pilot, than to yours. And if you don't like it you can always reject it.
ciao midlevel pilot
Join Date: Aug 2008
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EZY SFO on a Italian contract makes about €5000-6000
EZY CAPT on a Italian contract makes about €8000-9000
Excluding Loyalty bonuses.
Load factors are pretty high in MXP, with more expansion to come (FCU anyone?). So it appears that it is doable to run an efficient airline in Italy and not totally shaft your employees in the process, with the notable exception of pensions of course...
EZY CAPT on a Italian contract makes about €8000-9000
Excluding Loyalty bonuses.
Load factors are pretty high in MXP, with more expansion to come (FCU anyone?). So it appears that it is doable to run an efficient airline in Italy and not totally shaft your employees in the process, with the notable exception of pensions of course...
Join Date: May 2004
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It's now time for a national contract, for the totality of the italian pilots, if and when we get one, I hope it will be closer to my idea of a contract for an airline Pilot, than to yours.
BTW, about 4 years ago your company got about 400 Mios from the gov. while my company gone bust. Make this experiance and then we can talk again and see what you prefer, working for midevel money or just sit at home with the "cassa integrazione".
Join Date: Feb 2008
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What is the deal now? Because from my hotel window I've just seen an Alitalia MD-80 just land at Genoa airport.....will staff be reporting for work in the morning or what?
Join Date: Feb 2008
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....Guys you should be thankful of what we are doing...you,all of you, do not know anything about the wheeling and dealing that has been done at all levels for and against
this deal inside and outside the company...for the time being it seems that Cai is out of the picture...it would have been the kiss of death for all of us and I mean not only flight crews...the proposal was the worst possible simply unacceptable...also it was not legally managed (that is a fact not an opinion)...so today they tried this on us tomorrow who knows...we will not work for peanuts neither should you...we are taking a chance here if we succeed maybe the same will not happen elsewhere...
Az Cpt (redundant)
this deal inside and outside the company...for the time being it seems that Cai is out of the picture...it would have been the kiss of death for all of us and I mean not only flight crews...the proposal was the worst possible simply unacceptable...also it was not legally managed (that is a fact not an opinion)...so today they tried this on us tomorrow who knows...we will not work for peanuts neither should you...we are taking a chance here if we succeed maybe the same will not happen elsewhere...
Az Cpt (redundant)
The investors could have pulled the deal because their financing has been switched off with the crash.
Having said that, buying any airline at the present time would be incredibly stupid. Buying a bankrupt, Italian one, well it takes all sorts.
Barcalys bank bought $20billion of business from Lehmans for $250million. AIG are going have an fire sale of assets (possibly including city airport). There are bargains to be had if you have access to cash.
Having said that, buying any airline at the present time would be incredibly stupid. Buying a bankrupt, Italian one, well it takes all sorts.
Barcalys bank bought $20billion of business from Lehmans for $250million. AIG are going have an fire sale of assets (possibly including city airport). There are bargains to be had if you have access to cash.
Guys you should be thankful of what we are doing
Alitalia staff are not exactly giving themselves a glowing review to prospective employers.
Join Date: Jan 2008
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md4490
I respect your opinion but any company which is unable to sustain itself and needs billions year after year from their government has no right of existence.
It could have been nepotism at the top, it could have been nepotism at the middle management level, but unions fighting against the economic truths and not accepting they are working in a global market where all companies need to be competitive (not only the Italian unions suffer from this) are at least also to blame alongside the middle and upper management.
Are you saying the offer of Air France/KLM was also a disgrace where the employees were being taken to the slaughter house unjustly?
It could have been nepotism at the top, it could have been nepotism at the middle management level, but unions fighting against the economic truths and not accepting they are working in a global market where all companies need to be competitive (not only the Italian unions suffer from this) are at least also to blame alongside the middle and upper management.
Are you saying the offer of Air France/KLM was also a disgrace where the employees were being taken to the slaughter house unjustly?
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Well said vanHorck!
What a pity that business and unions in Italy make such a mess of their affairs. Don't play games just tell the truth and face up to the actual situation.
What a pity that business and unions in Italy make such a mess of their affairs. Don't play games just tell the truth and face up to the actual situation.
Would you care to elaborate the "Italian one" bit please.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Thanks Peter,
Knowing that BA is private and all that (probably 20% still with goverment not really sure), what do you reckon it would happen in the UK if BA was in the same situation.. Gordon would just let it go down? (please don`t take XL as an example)
Knowing that BA is private and all that (probably 20% still with goverment not really sure), what do you reckon it would happen in the UK if BA was in the same situation.. Gordon would just let it go down? (please don`t take XL as an example)
Paxing All Over The World
Pax speaking
Yes, I think he would. At the moment, the govt needs money to support banks that hold up thousands upon thousands of people not an airline where the jobs and equipment and routes would be picked up by others.
Whilst it is true that the Banks have got everybody into trouble, if they go down - then we could see the next global Depression. An airline or two? No, they are cannon fodder and will go.
Gordon would just let it go down?
Whilst it is true that the Banks have got everybody into trouble, if they go down - then we could see the next global Depression. An airline or two? No, they are cannon fodder and will go.
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BA would go down. They would NOT get a rescue package. When they got cut loose, they got cut loose. No government apron strings there.
Hell, just look at how HBOS staff are getting the shaft after Darling and Brown persuaded LloydsTSB to buy HBOS. Now they have 20,000 odd staff that will either go or have to go because they are duplicating positions. And the government? Suddenly Darling and Brown play the concerned MP card to check if their constituents will be safeguarded. Shouldn't that have been part of the deal that they made LTSB strike with HBOS? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
Besides, Brown and Darling would get an earful from ALL their counterparts in the Union, loudest probably Berlusconi with an innocent expression on his face.
S.
Hell, just look at how HBOS staff are getting the shaft after Darling and Brown persuaded LloydsTSB to buy HBOS. Now they have 20,000 odd staff that will either go or have to go because they are duplicating positions. And the government? Suddenly Darling and Brown play the concerned MP card to check if their constituents will be safeguarded. Shouldn't that have been part of the deal that they made LTSB strike with HBOS? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
Besides, Brown and Darling would get an earful from ALL their counterparts in the Union, loudest probably Berlusconi with an innocent expression on his face.
S.
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Exactly Pax Boy,
Because in the Uk credit crisis is always in the headlines, and media making a big thing about it, in Italy this crisis is not so bad YET or at least the TV it tells them like that. But Alitalia was always in the spot light for the last month or so (even the day Lehman went down).
So is just a matter of expectation i guess.. If Gordon promise you won`t have problems with loans than you`d expect him to do everything he can on that(so f..k BA) But if Silvio promise them to save AZ, and all the media are saying without AZ nobody will fly Milan-Rome, then Union feels very powerfull in their negotiations, because they know he feels the pressure on that; it is obvious they went too far. So I don`t think is a matter of Industrial relations in a particular country, is matter of what THEY tells us is important or not
Because in the Uk credit crisis is always in the headlines, and media making a big thing about it, in Italy this crisis is not so bad YET or at least the TV it tells them like that. But Alitalia was always in the spot light for the last month or so (even the day Lehman went down).
So is just a matter of expectation i guess.. If Gordon promise you won`t have problems with loans than you`d expect him to do everything he can on that(so f..k BA) But if Silvio promise them to save AZ, and all the media are saying without AZ nobody will fly Milan-Rome, then Union feels very powerfull in their negotiations, because they know he feels the pressure on that; it is obvious they went too far. So I don`t think is a matter of Industrial relations in a particular country, is matter of what THEY tells us is important or not
Last edited by Lazy skip; 18th Sep 2008 at 23:44.
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What a host of misguided comments from some posters.
First of all, since this is a pilot's form, I would have imagined that Italian pilots would receive much sypathy in this difficult hour.
Their company has been brought down by cancer and not an abrupt heart attack. It's been a long time coming and hence people should be much better informed of the build up to the situation, and not just the result.
One poster commented that the pilots were earning too much (but still less than most other flag carriers). So what if other pilots make better money than you? One should strive to reach the better salary and not rejoice that they have been brought down to your level.
Some other bright spark critisized the fact that AZ employees dress too smart? Is this for real? Why should anyone belittle AZ employees for being well groomed? Jealosy knows no bounds in some people.
That AZ has long been badly managed is true. That AZ employees are far too militant and strike much too often is obvious. That they have been bailed out once too often is also true, but for heaven's sake let's not shoot them down because of conditions of work we all hope to have, and just because we don't have them.
First of all, since this is a pilot's form, I would have imagined that Italian pilots would receive much sypathy in this difficult hour.
Their company has been brought down by cancer and not an abrupt heart attack. It's been a long time coming and hence people should be much better informed of the build up to the situation, and not just the result.
One poster commented that the pilots were earning too much (but still less than most other flag carriers). So what if other pilots make better money than you? One should strive to reach the better salary and not rejoice that they have been brought down to your level.
Some other bright spark critisized the fact that AZ employees dress too smart? Is this for real? Why should anyone belittle AZ employees for being well groomed? Jealosy knows no bounds in some people.
That AZ has long been badly managed is true. That AZ employees are far too militant and strike much too often is obvious. That they have been bailed out once too often is also true, but for heaven's sake let's not shoot them down because of conditions of work we all hope to have, and just because we don't have them.