CARDIFF

[pipertommy]

I cant see the big thing with Ryanair? Far East and Trans-atlantic is where Cardiff could come into there own. Big runway use it!!

[planenut321]

Big runway use it!!

Precisely!

[Welsh Bobby]

TOM at CWL

Having just returned from my hols (from CWL,of course!),felt I had to add my views/comments about TOMs up and down ops at CWL.
What on earth is going on with them? Can someone within TOM give any sense? Are the management at CWL,yet again, to blame with little/no incentives?

Egs-Long haul to POP/CUN/SFB come and gone!
Increase to two 752 and a 733 there this summer,only to lose the recently acquired second 752 next year!
There was talk on here some time ago about CWL becoming one of their major bases with even some sort of maintenance facilities!

I appreciate the present climate and general cutbacks but every time I fly with them always full planes and passengers pleased and hungry for more options with them.I did the CUN direct in premier last year-fab! Full at £225 extra per passenger!

Yet BRS thrives and, as an insult to CWL,gets the long haul with TOM/FCA this year/next with that short bloody runway requiring nearly always a tech stop elsewhere to refuel! Wheres the sense in that?!

Loyal people like me and many others want to fly from CWL but as operations diminish and the long haul disappear we will have no option but to go elsewhere!

[cyfarthfa]

Tom at CWL

I agree with you totally. Am I right in thinking that the top man at TOM/FCA is ex FCA? FCA and their predecessor Air 2000 were always very much pro BRS and it looks if the old habits are continuing.

[merchant sailors]

TOM at CWL

I think you hit the nail on the head.

Ex FCA staff making the moves within their capacity planning. This is not a bad thing as they are coming away from competing with LCC airlines in seat only markets and concentrating on their highest yielding markets.
ie: packages which they control from start to finish.
Shops, airlines and hotels / cruise ships.

If they did not merge you would have seen their CWL base stay at 3.

Merger resulted in major reductions to up yields as they took out competition. Same with My Travel and Thomas Cook.

They also always claimed they could not make long haul pay at CWL. This was their reason for stopping Dom Rep, Cancun and Florida.
The reason for this is the Welsh Holiday makers don't want to pay much more to fly from Wales than if they got it from Gatwick. Take into account aircraft positioning and crew costs alone and you are looking at a higher cost base. Only way long haul would work at Gatwick yields is to have a long haul based aircraft. No tour operator will do that in a hurry at the moment.

I agree BRS ops to Florida stop in MAN seems crazy but they TOM seem to be locked into something that it making this continue even with cost cuts.

Don't blame the airport for the changes in strategy at TOM. It is purely TOM focussing on their margins.

[planenut321]

At least the merger of Mytravel and Thomas Cook did the airport some good, with an increase in routes, more winter routes, a large based aircarft. Roll on Summer 09/ Summer 10 cause Thomas Cook will keep expanding at CWL cause they know its a good base.
Why can't anther holiday airline such as Monarch or Flyglobespan make up from the missed oppertunities at CWL!

Is it me or does Cardiff not get on with its airlines. Some are really dedicated and some just get in a mood and cut routes.

Deticated
Thomas Cook
Highland
Flybe
Eastern
Zoom
Skybus

Not Dedicated
Bmibaby (too slow to expand)
First Choice
Thomsonfly
XL
Ryanair

[AirLCY]

BA haven't flown out of CWL for years, but I wouldnt say they're not dedicated - the huge maint base provides a massive amount of jobs for the region.

[caaardiff]

Just my opinion:-

Its all well and good saying Baby are too slow to expand, but that is from an outsiders point of view. We can all speculate, but only the people that run baby know the real reason why there isn't a 4th aircraft yet. The press releases that they constantly issue state their dedication to CWL and its future prospects. Dedication means standing by something. Baby have stood by CWL as it is a profitable base. They have released new routes, BCN/WAW/GDK/MJV. They are testing the market with the resources that they currently have - 3 a/c.

The TCX A321 was based at CWL by MYT last year, before the final plans of the merger were released.

Highland are hardly dedicated to CWL. They are going along with the funding they receive from the Assembly. If highland were dedicated they would utilise their aircraft better, rather than having it parked up for 19 hours a day.

XL and Ryanair had their deals, then run, mainly to do with the fees CWL charge. Ask yourself, how dedicated is CWL to the airlines?
The above also has a link as to why TOM are pulling a 757.

There is still no confirmation as to who will operate SFB next year, as Thomas Cook Holidays still do not have it on sale. However i would love to see an airline like Monarch base an A320/321 at CWL, they seem to be going from strength to strength, but again concentrating on their main bases at the moment.
GSM on the other hand have a lot of work to do up in Scotland to rebuild their reputation before starting down south. Adding to that they now have a route from BRS, in competition with Zoom.
Zoom however seem to be making a success of YYZ with a twice weekly service and now year round.

[WATABENCH]

Just to add insult to injury for you CWL guys, the FCA BRS-SFB operated direct last week, it was running 8 hrs late and they sent it off direct insted of via MAN, showing that believe it or not BRS to East Coast USA can be done and on one of the hottest days of the year and a wide body jet, also took off on the shorter 09 runway.....full pax load, full baggage load and full fuel load, I wander now that it's been done if it would of raised a few eyebrows.
The director of the new merged TUI airline is Chris Brown (ex FCA), however if you were to talk currently to any FCA cabin crew or pilots I think you would find that things are increasingly turning from Pink to Blue, and the Pink brigade are really not happy.
It's a funny time for aviation generally, and I cant see much new expansion from any regional airport for a little while, airlines need to consolodate at the moment, and this is what TUI are doing, yes CWL is losing an a/c next year, but on the flip side theres no more going in to BRS with TUI next year.
Its a strange thing the still on going BRS v CWL banter, the thing is that BRS landed the GO contract years ago, they got brought by EZY and expanded more than any body (inc CWL managemnt) could of expected, it's just been compounded by the fact that CWL 2 years ago was on FR's website as a future base, then CWL fell out with MOL, he was wooed by BRS management and hence an FR base over the bridge as well, Just unlucky CWL, but it's done now and in the past, look to the future CWL, go out and get a DXB route before BRS and see what happens from there.

[OliWW]

I doubt flyglobespan would start shorter haul routes from Cardiff, they have had difficulties with aircraft and things over the past few years. I agree that Flybe have made a good expansion at Cardiff, as well as Eastern and Zoom recentally... Skybus and Highland is a service that will always be there. I still think that Thomson are still good for Cardiff, just wish yourself they arent leaving, they are reducing flights at many UK airports with the merge with FCA... we will just have to wait and see.

[4 engines 4 longhaul]

I wander now that it's been done if it would of raised a few eyebrows

Doubt it very much, bet what did though was the extra tonne or so fuel it burnt.

It’s all very good saying dedicated and not etc but that a load of rubbish, no airline is really dedicated to any airport, it's a business for good sake and if they don't like it they won’t do it. This TOM reduction is being made far worse than it is, there aren’t that many destinations dropped, and who knows with 10 months or so until the next summer season they might change things by then. There’s clearly some reason why they aren’t sending big jets to cwl (possibly the extortionate landing fees for a regional airport are one thing) that we don’t know about and probably never will, it's not all down to dedication and favouritism.

Ask yourself, how dedicated is CWL to the airlines?

Just about knock the nail on the head, although with XL they did have difficulties at the time and was part of the reason they pulled cwl, they'd only been there a year and hardly had an establishment there, hence they didn’t have much to lose.

[merchant sailors]

published charges vs deals

I work in tour ops and know that I would not walk up to a 5 star hotel one night, ask for a room and expect to get it at a discount or anywhere near what I might pay if I booked hundreds of rooms at that hotel a year.

I bet that the majority of airlines flying regularly to regional UK airports are not paying anywhere near the rack rates you see in their published charges.

If you operate ad-hoc's or "one-off" flights, expect to pay for it. IF you operate with a base or high frequency, expect to get a deal.

I can't believe all of you are so naive to think airlines like TOM and bmi pay anywhere near the rack rates for their operations at Cardiff.

TOM trimming capacity is part of a much larger group reduction. It is simply part of their merger with First Choice and the resulting changes in management direction to focus on higher margins. Other tour operators can all see this from miles away...

[cyfarthfa]

Summer 2009

Just read a report on GlobalWales.com that the only operator to Orlando Sandford from CWL next year will be Swansea based City Travel Direct using
XL A330's. Only seven flights will be operated with three being operated during August. No TCX or TUI ?

[Em0866]

Yes I read a similar report on another website a couple of weeks ago. Shame really as there have been flights to SFB/MCO from CWL for many years during the summer which started with Air Europe with IntaSun many years ago. Only stopping during the winter months. I think it's a real shame and I hope that another operator will take it throughout the whole of S09 season

[crackling jet]

Why can't people understand, that if it was profitable to operate various routes, they would. The fact is there just is not enough bums to put on seats to make them viable, just look at the map, it's nearly all green Fields and mountains, beautiful as it is nobody lives there.

Bristol used to be the same, but the difference was that the bristol team went out at every opportunity and pushed themselves all over, they did not sit down and wait for airlines to show interest, they did the sums prepared reports and went to the airlines with all the information to back up their cases, not saying deals and enticements were given or negotiated, but their strategies paid off.

I remember when the then new MD Les Wilson put the case for various routes and met with little response, he then went and and started seeking finance to setup the airports own airline, shortly after Brymon announced they were going to operate the very same routes that he had been pushing and preparing to operate himself, thats what is needed at Cardiff- management with the balls and the drive to get what is needed done by whatever means

[caaardiff]

Just wondering
MON312Orlando Sanford/Goose Bay02:30Delayed / 0645
Can anyone explain??

G-SMAN A330-200 operating route. Odd for an A330 to not make direct, even without ETOPS. May be passenger or technical issue.

As far as CWL-SFB goes, its always been a popular route. There was a slight struggle when TOM, MON and XLA(TCD 743) operated the route, but only a few empty seats per aircraft. But all 3 added up to 1000+ seats per week (in high season)
MON near enough fill their aircraft every week and the lower capacity of the FCA a/c from BRS must balance out the lack of TOM a/c.
I cant imagine TCX (the charterer) dropping this route again, not after its only just started using Monarch again.

[MerchantVenturer]

Florida route

I've trawled back through CAA stats for this century and the annual passenger figures on the Sanford route are as follows:

2007 17,774 2006 38,080 2005 22,120 2004 21,971 2003 18,055 2002 18,161

In 2001 and 2000 there were routes to both Sanford and Orlando:

2001 22,067 (S) 14014 (O) 2000 14,855 (S) 25,527 (O)

The best single month I can find is August 2006 when 9,981 travelled on the Sanford route.

It will be seen that in 2000 and 2001 there was a combined total of 40,000 and 36,000 respectively on the two routes. Orlando was then dropped and passenger numbers halved but began a very gradual build-up to 2006 when 38,000 travelled.

Last year numbers halved again and this coincided with a regular service from BRS on the route for the first time which carried 16,849 passengers in the year.

These are the raw passenger figures which may or may not make a profitable route - they certainly indicate there are large numbers of people willing to travel.

As for the FCA tech stops on the 767s from BRS, the story doing the rounds was that the route was to be built up to await the entry of the 787 which can reportedly (BRS master plan) operate these routes form BRS non-stop without load penalty. WATABENCH would know more about this than me. With the merger of TUI and First Choice whether this is still in the plans is anyone's guess, if it was true in the first place.

The BRS master plan seems to be relying on the 787 and future generations of aircraft for its long haul routes, especially transatlantic.

[caaardiff]

MV, Very useful figures. Lets hope the airlines are using these.
As a backup guide as to who was operating over the past few years
2004 - Monarch (A330-200) / XL (747-300)
2005 - Monarch (A330-200) / XL (747-300)
2006 - Monarch (A330-200) / XL (747-300) / TOM (767-300)
2007 - TOM (767-300) / XL (747-300)
2008 - Monarch (A330-200) / XL (A330-200)

2006 cleary the busiest year for the route, and as i stated further down, this was the year when some flights were only going 80-90% full, namely the TOM flight who were the newest carrier on the route. Airtours have a big following and so do Travel City. Also XLA have cut capacity in July/Aug by about 200 seats per week now they use the Airbus instead of the old 747's.
However they now operate one flight in may and one flight in october over the school holidays.
2007 improved for TOM as TCX/MYT no longer chartered Monarch to operate for them and used the Thomson aircraft instead.
Judging by these figures there is more than enough demand to support one weekly flight from both CWL and BRS.
There is a lot of leakage to London, Manchester and Birmingham from Wales for long haul routes, especially long haul charter.

[CheekyVisual]

CWL can fill a Florida charter on a weekly basis there is no doubt about that. It could also probably support a couple of other long haul charter routes. The problem as I understand it is now the additional costs involved in operating non based aircraft on occasional routes away from home bases is hitting profit hard. Remember to fill these aircraft the fares have to be competitive so although they can fill them with the extra costs involved turning a profit on them is becoming more difficult and the charters are all struggling in the current climate. As I've said before I think CWL is unfortunately more prone to the pain of a down turn than some other nearby airports.

As for the DEDICATED / NOT DEDICATED rubbish I can assure you the only thing airlines are dedicted to is their own survival. No one has any particular love for any one airport over another. It's a simple business decision. That hugely dedicated company that is Fly Be ignored CWL for 20 years. That's how dedicated they are ! Five years ago Baby would have been DEDICATED, Ten years ago BRAL would have been the boys. What about Cambrian Airways they must not be dedicated since they halted their Viscount operation. PLEASE !!!!

[Cloud1]

Oh dear I think someone has touched a nerve with the whole dedicated / not dedicated thing