CARDIFF
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Birdscarer
The words "be careful what you wish for" springs to mind, MNE have never recovered their lost volume after baby walked. How long do you think you will enjoy low fares for if baby walk from CWL? and you are left with Flybe on domestic routes.
Flybe empire? i think is passing through as in not based at CWL, so you could end up paying more and having less routes and jobs at CWL, now thats what i call proactive management, Doha, Still BRS is not far away and the English have paid for another bridge over the Severn, must the Kinnock school of management.
Still no sign of the new (Welsh) start up, of whom we dare not speak their name.
Flybe empire? i think is passing through as in not based at CWL, so you could end up paying more and having less routes and jobs at CWL, now thats what i call proactive management, Doha, Still BRS is not far away and the English have paid for another bridge over the Severn, must the Kinnock school of management.
Still no sign of the new (Welsh) start up, of whom we dare not speak their name.
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Yes it is my opinion. However It is an educated one as have worked at both EXT and BRS and know how Flybe operate. I will be watching the next 18 months with interest.
Check out Southampton and Norwich. Hardly a variety of carriers is there? Allegedly also blocked Easyjet from operating out of EXT last summer.
Check out Southampton and Norwich. Hardly a variety of carriers is there? Allegedly also blocked Easyjet from operating out of EXT last summer.
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have to agree to differ - SOU and EXT are not compable to CWL for a number or reasons.
EZY looked at EXT - can't see that - why dilute their ex BRS traffic - if they did surely CWL would have been a much more attractive option for them
WW make money out of CWL and they need to protect the base - I would expect expansion rather than withdrawl...time will tell
EZY looked at EXT - can't see that - why dilute their ex BRS traffic - if they did surely CWL would have been a much more attractive option for them
WW make money out of CWL and they need to protect the base - I would expect expansion rather than withdrawl...time will tell
Thread Starter
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It all depends on what route structure BE are planning for CWL. If they want o base here then i won't be suprised if in a few years you see some of WW's sunshine routes on the cards. At the moment Flybe are just operating out of their other bases, but we have allready seen that can give us 10 flights a day. BmiBaby can always just pull off the EDI, GLA and BFS and just operate another sunshine route, at the moment there is no ther competition.
On the other hand if BMI is up for sale etc. then how long are WW going to be around for anyway? If it gets sold as a seperate entity who exactly would want to buy Baby? And if they did buy Baby then would they keep the same bases etc with the same amount of a/c?
Having Flybe is a decent back-up plan even thought no based a/c and less capacity.
On the other hand if BMI is up for sale etc. then how long are WW going to be around for anyway? If it gets sold as a seperate entity who exactly would want to buy Baby? And if they did buy Baby then would they keep the same bases etc with the same amount of a/c?
Having Flybe is a decent back-up plan even thought no based a/c and less capacity.
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If Baby went, there would be lots of people without jobs at CWL, it'll be a big backwards step in my opinion if another carrier such as Ryan Air or Easy doesn't take their place (which would be hard to see happening).
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Airport like BRS,BHX,EMA,MAN and so on can work with two or more LoCo because of the pax volume, I am unsure that would apply at somewhere like CWL or EXT there isn't the critical volume? Then again Flybe are not really low cost(to the pax at least) where they have a monopoly they tend to be very expensive. I doubt that they can compete on the sun runs, but for the likes of baby its the sun plus domestic that make the numbers add up,remove either and you might loose both?
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The Easy at EXT was a 'W' from BRS to Geneva-I have it from a reliable source. CWL would not be a wise move for EZY as its just taking a diluted part of the business market that it will already receiving through BRS. EXT would be new customers that it would steal from BE
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Hi all, new boy on the block
Having read through all the pages I fell I need to ask this question on the subject of catchment areas. If Belfast Int and Belfast City handled 5.25 and 2.2 million passengers last year and NI only having a population of 1.7 million why is Cardiff only handling 2.1 million when Wales has a population of 3 million.?i
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It's not just down to cathment area, you cant base your opinions on how good/bad an airport is, just by counting passengers numbers in relation to population. There pax are made up from completely areas than cardiffs, over 1m travel to/from london yearly, there wont be the same demand for cardiff to london for instance, sorry to say it's probably much more of an tourist attraction than cardiff and also has a number of heavy industries still in place etc, just look at the clues
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Belfast
Hi new boy on the block from another new boy to pprune.
I think the answer to your question is called the Irish Sea. If all the people from south Wales who use other airports other than CWL ie. Heathrow, Gatwick, Bristol and Birmingham, were added together you would probably find that the total was was not far short of the Belfast total. Plus if you are travelling to London from south Wales, most people use the half hourly train service. From N.Ireland to travel to London, most people fly.
Regards
I think the answer to your question is called the Irish Sea. If all the people from south Wales who use other airports other than CWL ie. Heathrow, Gatwick, Bristol and Birmingham, were added together you would probably find that the total was was not far short of the Belfast total. Plus if you are travelling to London from south Wales, most people use the half hourly train service. From N.Ireland to travel to London, most people fly.
Regards
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There are endless reasons why people travel from elsewhere.
It is funny though to see that Belfasts second airport is on par with Wales' main airport(some would say only real airport) in terms of pax figures
Whilst it would be nice to see a direct train service right into the airport, its not gonna happen for a long time, if at all. Similar with the link road from the motorway. At best CWL will probably get an improved indirect road network improvement, rather than a direct link rd to the vale.
However, its probably just as cheap to go from other airports for a little extra travelling. National expres charge between £40-60 for return ticket to LHR or LGW, direct and very frequent from most South Wales points. You can also get to BHX and MAN with changes. With flight from regional airports normally being more expensive, or having less frequencies it can be just as easy to fly from elsewhere by sitting on a train or a coach for a few hours extra.
BRS has a very good bus link from its city centre which has designated airport coaches that drive through the city to get to BRS... advertising in itself for locals.
Cardiff bus has reduced its bus links into Cardiff since the rail network has been introduced, which is apparently quite popular. Does anyone know any solid stats for the vale rail line?
I think a direct coach service from the west (Carmarthen or Swansea) would suit CWL and im surprised has not been tried. The rail line from the west to CWL would involve at least one train change in Bridgend or Cardiff, then the bus change at Rhoose into the airport. Your average domestic or light luggage business traveller would probably put up with this, but your average holiday traveller lugging cases around may like a direct town - airport link on a coach. Any opinions?
It is funny though to see that Belfasts second airport is on par with Wales' main airport(some would say only real airport) in terms of pax figures
Whilst it would be nice to see a direct train service right into the airport, its not gonna happen for a long time, if at all. Similar with the link road from the motorway. At best CWL will probably get an improved indirect road network improvement, rather than a direct link rd to the vale.
However, its probably just as cheap to go from other airports for a little extra travelling. National expres charge between £40-60 for return ticket to LHR or LGW, direct and very frequent from most South Wales points. You can also get to BHX and MAN with changes. With flight from regional airports normally being more expensive, or having less frequencies it can be just as easy to fly from elsewhere by sitting on a train or a coach for a few hours extra.
BRS has a very good bus link from its city centre which has designated airport coaches that drive through the city to get to BRS... advertising in itself for locals.
Cardiff bus has reduced its bus links into Cardiff since the rail network has been introduced, which is apparently quite popular. Does anyone know any solid stats for the vale rail line?
I think a direct coach service from the west (Carmarthen or Swansea) would suit CWL and im surprised has not been tried. The rail line from the west to CWL would involve at least one train change in Bridgend or Cardiff, then the bus change at Rhoose into the airport. Your average domestic or light luggage business traveller would probably put up with this, but your average holiday traveller lugging cases around may like a direct town - airport link on a coach. Any opinions?
Brunel to Concorde
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caardiff.
I think you make some good points.
When the rail halt at Rhoose was opened it was hoped that trains might call there regularly directly from such places as Swindon, Bath, Bristol and even possibly down to Taunton, as well as from other parts of Wales of course.
CWL needs pax in greater numbers from these sort of English areas to make any significant expansion of services viable.
It would mean extending the Paddington, Portsmouth and Taunton services, all now operated by First Great Western, to Rhoose. This company is having a terrible time with timekeeping, overcrowding on commuter services and reliability generally, not least because it is so short of rolling stock.
Operational and commercial considerations would also weigh on any decision to operate long distance trains through to Rhoose. An alternative might be some form of rail shuttle between Cardiff Central and Rhoose which would mean a change of train at the former, not a huge obstacle, but someone would have to subsidise such a service because it certainly would not pay for itself.
The coach shuttle you mentioned to and from BRS is operated on behalf of the airport by First Coaches in a special airport livery. The contract would be commercially confidential I am sure but I suspect the airport contributes towards the cost significantly.
The 50-seater coaches operate every fifteen minutes to and from the main railway station from around 5am to after midnight (although the frequency drops slightly in the evening), with additional services every 30 mins from the bus station and from Clifton (for central and Clifton hotels) - these two routes both operate via Temple Meads station thus providing the 15-minute frequency from there - a 25-minute journey to/from the airport - traffic conditions permitting.
The coaches are advertised on the FGW booking system and on Temple Meads Station monitors, and it is possible to buy through rail tickets to/from the airport (which is advertised in FGW's system as a station), with the last or first bit on the Flyer Coach.
There is usually a steady stream of people waiting for the next coach at the railway station, although numbers will vary according to time of day.
In hindsight I wonder whether this would not have been a better solution for CWL than the halt at Rhoose.
I think you make some good points.
When the rail halt at Rhoose was opened it was hoped that trains might call there regularly directly from such places as Swindon, Bath, Bristol and even possibly down to Taunton, as well as from other parts of Wales of course.
CWL needs pax in greater numbers from these sort of English areas to make any significant expansion of services viable.
It would mean extending the Paddington, Portsmouth and Taunton services, all now operated by First Great Western, to Rhoose. This company is having a terrible time with timekeeping, overcrowding on commuter services and reliability generally, not least because it is so short of rolling stock.
Operational and commercial considerations would also weigh on any decision to operate long distance trains through to Rhoose. An alternative might be some form of rail shuttle between Cardiff Central and Rhoose which would mean a change of train at the former, not a huge obstacle, but someone would have to subsidise such a service because it certainly would not pay for itself.
The coach shuttle you mentioned to and from BRS is operated on behalf of the airport by First Coaches in a special airport livery. The contract would be commercially confidential I am sure but I suspect the airport contributes towards the cost significantly.
The 50-seater coaches operate every fifteen minutes to and from the main railway station from around 5am to after midnight (although the frequency drops slightly in the evening), with additional services every 30 mins from the bus station and from Clifton (for central and Clifton hotels) - these two routes both operate via Temple Meads station thus providing the 15-minute frequency from there - a 25-minute journey to/from the airport - traffic conditions permitting.
The coaches are advertised on the FGW booking system and on Temple Meads Station monitors, and it is possible to buy through rail tickets to/from the airport (which is advertised in FGW's system as a station), with the last or first bit on the Flyer Coach.
There is usually a steady stream of people waiting for the next coach at the railway station, although numbers will vary according to time of day.
In hindsight I wonder whether this would not have been a better solution for CWL than the halt at Rhoose.
Last edited by MerchantVenturer; 15th Feb 2008 at 22:19. Reason: typos - there still might be others I missed
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Trains & Planes (aeroplanes)
Would you really take the risk of missing your flight by using the train to get to the airport. For somewhere like Manchester airport or the link to LGW where there are lots trains (at least every 30min) then just maybe, for most other airports in the UK.no way!!!!!!!!!!!!
When you have a tube service that doesn't operate past midnight you can't even cross London using public transport.
Low cost flights are often flown at very early or very late times of the day when there are no trains, so for most it will be self drive or a minbu hire.
When you have a tube service that doesn't operate past midnight you can't even cross London using public transport.
Low cost flights are often flown at very early or very late times of the day when there are no trains, so for most it will be self drive or a minbu hire.
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Mathers
You have been very quiet on here of late. On one of our old topics I told you that Eastern were going to 3 x daily NCL to CWL and have you seen the fares, I mean in particular the extra afternoon flight.
I compared going the 7th April (monday) and return on Tuesday 8th with baggage and guess what including taxes. I am not sure if Flybe charge for check-in.
Eastern £97
Flybe £117
Eastern you get FREE drinks and snacks plus champagne and fast track through security
Flybe SWEET FA
You have been blowing hot air long enough up Fly may be's arse, and yet you have mentioned nothing since Eastern put the extra flight on and especially now that they are cheaper than your prodigal son.
What have you got to say?
I am all ears
You have been very quiet on here of late. On one of our old topics I told you that Eastern were going to 3 x daily NCL to CWL and have you seen the fares, I mean in particular the extra afternoon flight.
I compared going the 7th April (monday) and return on Tuesday 8th with baggage and guess what including taxes. I am not sure if Flybe charge for check-in.
Eastern £97
Flybe £117
Eastern you get FREE drinks and snacks plus champagne and fast track through security
Flybe SWEET FA
You have been blowing hot air long enough up Fly may be's arse, and yet you have mentioned nothing since Eastern put the extra flight on and especially now that they are cheaper than your prodigal son.
What have you got to say?
I am all ears
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I haven't had a look at fairs for both flights at the moment but i will do, i did hear however Eastern reduced fares on a lot of routes in order to compete against flybe.
Considering the route is operated on the EM4, the operational cost is higher, than that of the J41 of Eastern. I wonder if the prices would fall when they change the equipment to a DH8? Are these high prices due to good sales for Flybe?
The only reason i go on about Flybe is that they are the only carrier at CWL that looks promising for further expansion.
Considering the route is operated on the EM4, the operational cost is higher, than that of the J41 of Eastern. I wonder if the prices would fall when they change the equipment to a DH8? Are these high prices due to good sales for Flybe?
The only reason i go on about Flybe is that they are the only carrier at CWL that looks promising for further expansion.
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Do any of you work in aviation or any of the mentioned airports, becuase there are some daft comments.
The main 'mis-understanding' I can see is that you all assume airports rely on 'catchment' area's and local populations etc.
I have worked extensively at both Cardiff and Bristol and I estimate that roughly 40% of the BRS passengers are Welsh!! This occurs because the Bristol management are much more pro-active, and correctly minded towards getting the right airlines in......and keeping them!!! If something isn't quite right they will offer 'financial deals' as an insentive for the airlines to make the necessary alterations.
I love flying from Cardiff but the first thing I do is check Bristol prices/destinations, there will always be more scope and cheaper prices....and that is the bottom line!!
This thread always come down to aviance staff versus servisair staff or one lot of CC v another lot of CC slating each others airlines..........
One airline doesn't have to leave Cardiff to make way for a new one....CWL management need to claw back their trade from Bristol by offering more flights!!!!
The main 'mis-understanding' I can see is that you all assume airports rely on 'catchment' area's and local populations etc.
I have worked extensively at both Cardiff and Bristol and I estimate that roughly 40% of the BRS passengers are Welsh!! This occurs because the Bristol management are much more pro-active, and correctly minded towards getting the right airlines in......and keeping them!!! If something isn't quite right they will offer 'financial deals' as an insentive for the airlines to make the necessary alterations.
I love flying from Cardiff but the first thing I do is check Bristol prices/destinations, there will always be more scope and cheaper prices....and that is the bottom line!!
This thread always come down to aviance staff versus servisair staff or one lot of CC v another lot of CC slating each others airlines..........
One airline doesn't have to leave Cardiff to make way for a new one....CWL management need to claw back their trade from Bristol by offering more flights!!!!