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Old 7th May 2009, 16:36
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Didn't check that myself when put in random dates, though from 28 Jan 10 through to the end of the winter timetable, it would seem thursday is 3 flights per day; up to the 21 Jan 10, its 2.
ah that explains it, i took all mine from halfway through Nov 09 (quietest period), oh well, the more the better i say
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Old 7th May 2009, 20:11
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ei always operated the a330 as it got cleaned in bfs. The odd time they sent up a 146 or 737 but only because flight was mega delayed in2 snn.

they also operated a dc10 in 2000 but it wasn`t owned by them, leased from delta for summer schedule
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Old 7th May 2009, 21:20
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...and a World Airways MD11 in full EI livery...very impressive too...
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Old 7th May 2009, 21:40
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ei always operated the a330 as it got cleaned in bfs.
Awww, thanks for clarification. A few times when flying out of BFS, aircraft was a B737 rather than the Airbus, and search on airliners.net pictures also showed the B737 at BFS at the time of the US flights. Guess added two and two and got eleven!!!
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Old 8th May 2009, 07:08
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MD-11's & BFS-SNN-JFK

Stand16 EI never EVER operated/used/leased DC-10's. EI had an MD-11 under wet lease agreement from World Airways (reg N-272WA) from March to Oct every year from 1998 til end of Oct 2001. It operated BFS-SNN-JFK. During the two summer seasons of '96 and '97 EI wet leased an L10-11 from British Caledonian (reg G-BBAF) but it was used for DUB-SNN-EWR in an all economy configuration. There was also an L10-11 lease from ATA in the early 90's.

As for operating a BFS-SNN-JFK operation again??? I'm not so sure it would ever happen. However, it certainly would be a better option than flying through LHR or anywhere else. The US Customs and Border Protection - aka US Immigration - in SNN is a great advantage. Very small queues in comparison to the immigration queues you see in JFK. Believe me I've used both and SNN wins hands down.

EI already have some transatlantic flights flying from DUB that do not use US immigration so I don't see why they don't have a direct flight ex BFS doing the same but is there a market is the question to fill an A330?? CO have done ok filling a 757 but in the years of the A330 and MD-11 flying BFS-SNN-JFK there were usually only 20/30 pax flying all the way to JFK and approx 100-150 were flying to SNN.

Last edited by EISNN; 8th May 2009 at 07:22.
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Old 8th May 2009, 07:57
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CO have done ok filling a 757 but in the years of the A330 and MD-11 flying BFS-SNN-JFK there were usually only 20/30 pax flying all the way to JFK and approx 100-150 were flying to SNN.
Of course you are correct. HOWEVER the dynamics in this part of the world have changed. We are(as a general rule)at peace. We have had more visits from Presidents than enough and our executive is pushing here as a good place to invest(despite downturns and euro/pound rates).The feeling I get from American relatives is that ALL of Ireland is no fair game for visiting.

There are a lot more people travelling INBOUND than there were in the late 80's 90's.

The island as a whole needs competition and Aer Lingus would seem to be ideally placed to offer it.
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Old 8th May 2009, 15:56
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there defo is the market for travel to the US, but i dont see EI taking a risk with their current financial issues... but if launched id be confident they'd do well on the route
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Old 8th May 2009, 16:01
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Would an A320 have the legs to make SNN or BFS - JFK?

On a side note to the crew of the ATP which arrived around 0130 "fair play to ya" looked pretty hairy from where I was trying to stand
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Old 8th May 2009, 19:36
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Belfast International Airport :: News
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Old 10th May 2009, 15:36
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Belhold, I'm afraid an A320 with a full capacity of 174 pax wouldn't make it to USA with out refuelling in Iceland or Gander or somewhere along the route. I'm led to believe that an A321 with a smaller capacity than what Aer Lingus has now, which is 212 seats, would make it. 150 pax would work or so I'm told. someone correct me on this please.
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Old 10th May 2009, 22:37
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well an EZY flight inbound from EDI today had to abort landing 2 times, before asking for the fire service to be on stand-by due to one of the gears not going down.. landed the 3rd time without incident

also a small prop plane landed on runway 25, while an EZY 737 was landing on 07, the EZY then had to abort.. not sure who was at fault
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Old 10th May 2009, 23:17
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Red face Confirmed. Aer Lingus to reduce to 2 Aircraft at BFS

A good source at EI has confirmed to me that Aer Lingus will be reducing to 2 units at BFS for Winter 09. The plan is to resume to 3 units for Summer 2010. Possible Job loss and or relocation of crew.
Just what I feared !
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Old 11th May 2009, 00:16
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yep, was confirmed last week

unless the crews at BFS accept reduced hours over winter then there will definately be redundancies / relocations, as i think theres 2 crews per a/c a day (swap over in the afternoon if i remember right..)
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Old 11th May 2009, 19:35
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Ryanair have their winter 09/10 routes from sale ex BHD.

Bristol X2 day
East Mids X2 day
Prestwick X1 day
Liverpool X2 day
Stansted X4 day

I know that FR often have sales / offers, but they mouth on about having the lowest fares ex Northern Ireland. A very quick scan seems to show however that base fares, with tax / charges included to Liverpool:
EZY £21.99, (£12.99 fare and £9.00 tax / charges)
FR £40.37, (£11.99 fare and £28.38 tax / charges).

Other UK domestic destinations follow the same pricing roughly for both carriers.

Now I don't know how many seats are available at these prices, but with FR substancially higher charges for most credit and debit cards (per passenger sector, rather than transaction), check-in and baggage, FR could be working out much more expensive.

With BHD taxes / charges over three times that of BFS apparently, surely that is putting much more pressure on yields, and with MOL not operating out of rip-off airports whats the score there?? Surely these figures have to accurately display the correct amounts passengers are paying, ie, can't show standard prices if FR are getting discounted rates. And if these are accurate prices, all the £1 or £10 flights from BHD must be loss making. Surely even extortionate baggage and payment charges would not make up for the charges still to be paid to BHD??
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Old 11th May 2009, 20:04
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EZY £21.99, (£12.99 fare and £9.00 tax / charges)
FR £40.37, (£11.99 fare and £28.38 tax / charges).

With BHD taxes / charges over three times that of BFS apparently, surely that is putting much more pressure on yields, and with MOL not operating out of rip-off airports whats the score there?? Surely these figures have to accurately display the correct amounts passengers are paying, ie, can't show standard prices if FR are getting discounted rates. And if these are accurate prices, all the £1 or £10 flights from BHD must be loss making. Surely even extortionate baggage and payment charges would not make up for the charges still to be paid to BHD??
BHD's charges are not 3 times BFS's. EZY's fare is obviously a loss leader (just like FR's £1 or £10 fares). Don't forget that the Air Passenger Duty is £10, so theres no way that the total charges from BFS could be £9! The fare you have quoted for FR is obviously not a promotional fare and thus attracts full charges. The APD is £10 and the fee BHD charge is £18.38.
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Old 11th May 2009, 20:23
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FR could be working out much more expensive
FR's winter seats have all been loaded with relatively HIGH fares. This is because you get people waiting for winter seats, anxious to book, and paying high fares when the seats become available. Over the next months these fares will drop significantly before again increasing in the weeks before departure.
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Old 11th May 2009, 20:37
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en2r,
The fare you have quoted for FR is obviously not a promotional fare and thus attracts full charges.
When Fr offer the £1 or £10 flights inc tax, they obviously still have to pay the APD for each flying passenger. But do the charges FR have to pay the airport vary on whether its a promotional fare or standard fare offered by the carrier, or do they remain at a constant £18.38. Would the contract drawn up usually allow for payment to the airport to be reduced, if the airline is offering heavily discounted fares??

Don't forget that the Air Passenger Duty is £10, so theres no way that the total charges from BFS could be £9!
With EZY, surely its inaccurate to display £9 tax / charges, if £10 of the money I pay will be going to the Government, plus whatever BFS get. With the airlines showing the amount charged as fare, fuel supplement, taxes etc, all broken down, surely these figures need to be accurate to have some level of credibility, otherwise they could just pluck figures from the sky, so long as the total remains the same.

MOL in a mass of publicity stated that FR guaranteed the lowest fares from Northern Ireland some time ago (or get some level of money back). Well without EZY or FR having a sale or promotion as such at the minute for winter flights, surely EZY are working out cheaper overall, or does MOL now want to retract that statement??
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Old 11th May 2009, 21:57
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When Fr offer the £1 or £10 flights inc tax, they obviously still have to pay the APD for each flying passenger. But do the charges FR have to pay the airport vary on whether its a promotional fare or standard fare offered by the carrier, or do they remain at a constant £18.38. Would the contract drawn up usually allow for payment to the airport to be reduced, if the airline is offering heavily discounted fares??
No, FR pay the airport the exact same regardless of what the customer pays. The thing is the fares are never as cheap as they look at first. The basic flight may be £/€1 but the credit card charge is €10 (I don't know what it is in sterling), if you want to check in a bag at the airport its €40. Very few people actually pay £/€1 for their flight. Added to this, as far as I know FR have the highest no show rate in the industry. When the flights are so cheap, people book a number of dates/times well in advance and choose whichever suits best closer to the time. Ryanair don't give refunds so they get to keep the airfare of the no shows. The £/€1 fare is often a loss leader, just like a Supermarket selling something for half price to entice customers into the supermarket. Ryanair advertise their £/€1 fares to entice customers onto the website. The fare often won't be available for the date/routes that suit but the customers end up buying other flights while they're on the website. This isn't only in Belfast that they do this, its across the entire Ryanair network. They were running their free flights promotions long before they ever started operating from Belfast.
MOL in a mass of publicity stated that FR guaranteed the lowest fares from Northern Ireland some time ago (or get some level of money back). Well without EZY or FR having a sale or promotion as such at the minute for winter flights, surely EZY are working out cheaper overall, or does MOL now want to retract that statement??
I wouldn't take anything that MOL says too seriously. He's notorious for exagerating the truth (or at times telling blatent lies!!).
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Old 11th May 2009, 22:04
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Careful what you say, en2r, accusing MOL of telling lies could land you in hot water!
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Old 11th May 2009, 22:19
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Careful what you say, en2r, accusing MOL of telling lies could land you in hot water!
Well then to back that up, FR pulled the Cork to East Midlands and Prestwick routes in late 2008 because MOL said the Cork Airport Authority were increasing airport charges by 20%. What really happened was that the 2 routes were launched under the airport Route support scheme (as well as the Cork-Carcassonne route) which meant that they got a 100% discount in the first year, and an 80% discount in the second year and so on. Ryanair had contractually agreed to this when they launched the route (and they have continued the Cork-Carcassonne route under this arrangement), yet MOL swore blind in the media that the Cork Airport Authority were increasing charges by 20%. In my eyes anyway, thats a blatent lie!
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