BELFAST (BHD) - 3

[EI-BUD]

New carrier for BHD

Anyway Telegraph tonight mentions another airline being interested in City airport - subject to runway extension - any ideas?

Hi Rinty
Welcome to pprune, if you are a keen follower of aviation you will enjoy the content.

I read this information in the paper and to be honest, I really think that it is a red herring. Firstly, to reinforce the business case to the relevant audience, and to in a small way take the focus off Ryanair, as they seem to be the one that is most aggressive and most in favour of the extention.

However, if there were to be a major 'flag carrier' interested, it could only be an airline like KLM who might be interested in a daily Amsterdam, or BA?
I couldnt see KLM coming in given the story of BFS AMS and EI withdrawing and why would BA return to the market? However, if bmi was aquired by BA in some weird twist well then we may have a major flag carrier in (albeit only the same planes in a different guise). I cant see many airlines interested in an already over served market. Certainly not in the current times.

What do you think?

EI-BUD

[gate 22]

Anyway Telegraph tonight mentions another airline being interested in City airport - subject to runway extension - any ideas?

It was mentioned in passing by Ambrose about other carriers being put off by runway length last night on spotlight. I thought long and hard about it, and could only think of a carrier at BFS relocating. What other players are there. KLM could do AMS with an aircraft as it stands at the moment. BA base - they are in GLA and EDI and don't really do Europe from there, so it probably is an attempt to fuel his case. Who knows maybe a bit of MOL is starting to rub off on to himself.

[Take up the Hold]

Might be Continental moving down the road.
TUTH

[tigger2k8]

hmm i dont think its Continental.... they seem perfectly happy with BFS... they wont move so they can offer the whole "direct to the city" thing, as discussed earlier in this topic.. as they havnt done so in other airports

has any1 wondered what Ryanair will do if BHD doesnt get the extension? Surely they wont hang around BHD if they cant fly at max capacity.. They've already planned an ALC route from Derry... maybe they will fly european routes from Derry and domestic from BHD?

this year will be very interesting ...

Dubrovnik Airline is due to return to BFS with i think 2 weekly flights instead of the 1 they had last year?

EI is dropping their MXP and AMS routes from BFS... dropping the frequency on BCN, BUT they are keeping the BFS-ACE route 3x weekly with rumors of an BFS-FUE route and possibly a transatlantic (2 stop..)

[Shamrock350]

Aer Lingus announced that they were dropping AMS a while ago, I suppose it simply couldn't carry on with such poor loads. It will end before the start of the summer schedule. I'm surprised CDG is still around, it was reporting similar loads to AMS but maybe they've improved since then?

Where has it been announced that MXP is being dropped? Will be a shame to see it go as made it made a change from the typical sun destinations that are already well served from Northern Ireland. It added some variety at least, any idea on MUC?

BCN was doing well at the start then the schedule changed to a late evening arrival which didn't seem to go down too well. Now the schedule has been changed again with it going back to a morning arrival and departure, apparently this is in line with cruise ship departures and arrivals from the area so maybe that's the thinking behind it.

ACE looks like it's doing well and TFS has been added for winter. Don't think there will be any transatlantic routes just yet.

[Charlie Roy]

Bristol

Easyjet's monopoly on the Belfast to Bristol market is about to be challenge by Ryanair's new route:

Belfast City - Bristol


It was only a matter of time...

[ALLMCC]

Good to see further expansion at BHD although with only one return a day to BRS will rule out there and back same day. Will hardly worry Easyjet either.

There were rumours about BOH - BHD, presumably this is unlikely now.

[tigger2k8]

ignore my last post about MXP being dropped, seems its going to stay which im surprised about, considering low loads

AGP and FAO are going out 5-6x a week

CDG will be daily

nearly seems like EI has increased their flights compared to last summer... and with the frequency of their flights there must be a 4th aircraft that will visit BFS (not a base one..)

i dont think EZY will be worried about Ryanairs BHD-BRS route... sure it will be handy for people in belfast city, but Aldergrove/BFS has a bigger catchment area than BHD..

[Belboy]

There has been very little comment about the performance of the various parties on the Spotlight programme, so lets start some. I dont feel that BHD did themselves alot of good on the show, BA appeared to be uncomfortable with what he was saying generally and finished the programme by saying that he wouldnt guarantee this would be the end of the changes to the operating constraints and that there may well be futher applications in the future. What I find most surprising about this is that many believe it to be the truth. This must be a first for the factory worker.
However the next day, an 'underling' released the statement about the new flag carrier moving in when the runway is extended. She finished her statement by saying there will be no further changes to the constraints.
Who do you think is telling the truth?

I wont go into detail yet but MOLs performance was terrible, one could easily think he wants a reason to leave BHD.
I also though that the airport providing stats to the BBC, that showed on a particular day flybe operated the loudest aircraft, this was later pointed out to have been a charterd aircraft, was very poor form. The relationship between the airport and flybe must be at an all time low, mind you its not great with Aer Arann or bmi either. At least you have one steady dependable friend and if I were the owner, I would be very relaxed about that.

[cuthere]

As a person who used to use the LDY-BRS route several times a month, I have to say the timings on the BRS-BHD aren't great. Getting back into BHD at 21.15 may be useful for people in the Belfast area, but for everyone else who has any kind of onward journey to make...........add to that the inevitable delays at the end of a day's flying for that airframe (and the weather factor at BRS!), and you'd be better usung EZY into BFS (and believe me, I'm no advocate of Lough Neagh International ;-)).

[BFS101]

FR to Bristol

Just what Northern Ireland needs (yes pure sarcasm)...

Easyjet have a route from a Belfast airport, operating reasonably well, twice a day. Good enough service, good enough prices, value for money for the consumer, and the airline not operating at a loss (all presumed). Then bring in another carrier that operates a daily flight. Price war in the short term with unrealistic prices, passenger numbers split between carriers.

So what happens if EZY then feel they need to pull one of their flights due to lower passenger numbers. It is a fairly small market. Left with two carriers operating once daily, so not possible to do a day return into the same Belfast airport. Is that good for Northern Ireland, good for the consumer, I think not!!!

And while Ryanair do offer some rediculously good offers, I was pricing flights to London over the last weekend in June, and require checked baggage (will be doing some shopping, lol), Ryanair came out as one of the most expensive. Best value for money was surprisingly bmi, and on the Piccadilly line so no £26 odd Stansted Express fare to fork out either. FlyBE was the most expensive, but both Easyjet and Aer Lingus cheaper than Ryanair with the extra charges added. So is it really such a benefit to have FR competing on the BRS (and other thinner) routes??

On the Spotlight programme, MO'L stated that with the runway extension at BHD, Ryanair would start flights to new European cities such as Paris (already served by 2 carriers), Barcelona (already served by 2 carriers, was 3) and Rome (already served, and would there be demand for a 2nd carrier). For the benefit FR will bring in terms of a potential small increase in tourist number, I think Northern Ireland, and BHD will pay a huge price.

[ALLMCC]

Perhaps we shouldn't forget that BHD had a BRS link courtesy of Flybe until they decided to ditch it a couple of years back. Once again passengers will have a choice which airport they want to travel from. What's wrong with that?

[Husky One]

Ryanair would drop BHD like a hot brick if BFS would give them the deal they want. Contrary to popular belief MOL went into BHD to annoy Aer Lingus intially not Easyjet. The fact he's clutching at straws now is no surprise. Easyjet are quietly pleased with performance on routes where the 2 compete. I can't see the Orange Hangar losing much sleep over BRS either.
Both airports have their place but it is unfortunate that BHD cannot see through the Ryanair BS about runway extensions. Ryanair chose the 737-800. I don't see why every airport should pander to their whims just because they can't get it in or out with a full load. BMI and Flybe both have equipment which is capable of serving the routes MOL speaks of without needing a runway extension. The only reason BHD needs an runway extension is Ryanair. History has already dictated that placing your trust in MOL is very much invoking 'repent at leisure'.

[gate 22]

So BHD has 4000 slots left per anum (if my memory serves me well from Spotlight), BRS = 365x2=730, IOM 2x2x365=1460. That's 4000-730-1460=1810, therefore 1810/365 = 5 5/2=2.5 say 3 more return flights left, is that Rome, Paris and Girona. So BHD are going to spend £5million (or what ever it is) to give FR 3 destinations. Okay maybe they will push out BE, small aircraft high frequency is that the plan.

[Standard Noise]

Ah well, at least I won't have to land in the middle of nowhere when I want to come home for a few days.
Coming into City means I can save a packet on not hiring a car cos the only BRS-NI route lands at some hillbilly sh1thole.

[eastern wiseguy]

some hillbilly sh1thole.

No way to talk about Bristol on the hill!!

[EI-BUD]

Easyjet are quietly pleased with performance on routes where the 2 compete. I can't see the Orange Hangar losing much sleep over BRS either.

Husky One
I think you will find that easyjet is not happy with the performance at Belfast at the moment,ok they are getting a good share of the market but they are not achieving the yield (nor are any other airlines), Belfast has been described on a few occassions as being most challenging and Ryanairs arrival onto any route/market that they serve is not good news. The announcement earlier this year or late last year of new routes from LGW sent shockwaves through the system.

For me I am still to see Ryanair go head to head with Flybe, something that MOL seems to be avoiding. Ryanair are happy to challenge EI, BA, BD, EZY, LS etc but they in my memory have avoided Flybe.. When they do, for me the whole thing will become interesting...!

[tigger2k8]

is there a press release about how EZY isnt happy with BFS? Over the summer all flights were close to full capacitity or full, infact i dont think there was 1 flight with under 120 passengers

if EZY isnt happy about October and November then i cant blame them.. as passenger numbers dropped big time, but then again, it was the same throughout most airports.. its just a time when less people travel

even now when i thought it would be quiet, numbers are still over 100 (apart from on the later turnarounds after 6pm when numbers usually hit around 70, unless theres a football match on..) some are even full (BRS is very popular)

if EZY wants to pull in the passengers then they need a new route, not a Spanish one as that country is seriously over-served... theres far too many passengers travelling to LGW for connecting flights..

problem with all airports in N.I is the fact the population is small (i think its 1.6 million in N.I?) so the catchment area for the airports isnt great.... most mainland airports will have catchment areas that could be 5 or 6 million... so if u figure it out, ofcourse BFS wont perform as well as other EZY bases

anyone heard anything about a starting date for the "master plan" from what i read, it was supposed to start 2 years ago

[BFS101]

at least I won't have to land in the middle of nowhere

Hardly in the middle of nowhere. There is no doubting at all that BHD is extremely convenient for the centre of Belfast and North Down, but I think its an exagerattion to say that BFS is in the middle of nowhere. From a distance, and a journey time point of view, I would feel that BFS is just as convenient to Belfast as many major airports are to their urban centres. Fair enough, no direct rail link which is a disappointment.

they are getting a good share of the market but they are not achieving the yield (nor are any other airlines)

I know its business, and FR have planes to put somewhere, but when its already a very competitive market and yields are poor, why on earth come in to compete. Back to my point weeks ago, that too much competition can be bad especially on thinner routes, and that Northern Ireland on the whole is already very competitive and well connected to the rest of the UK.

Some diversification on European services would be good, but that's the unimaginative nature of the Northern Ireland traveller (Bally Ponsa brigade). Aer Lingus, credit where credit's due, has tried to introduce new destinations, but unfortunately relatively poor uptake. Personally I think the last thing Belfast needs is more bloomin services to Paris (esp when you have to land "in the middle of nowhere"), Barcelona (Girona and Reus convenient to Barcelona???) and Rome.

[en2r]

is there a press release about how EZY isnt happy with BFS? Over the summer all flights were close to full capacitity or full, infact i dont think there was 1 flight with under 120 passengers

I think they mentioned in their annual report that Belfast was their most challenging base across their entire network. To be honest I don't think anyone (EI, FR or EZY) is making money at Belfast at the moment.