British Airways - 2
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Before everyone gets excited - is this just a replacement of existing aging aircraft, or an expansion ?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: cornwall, uk
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It's a replacement for the existing fleet of ageing B744s.
And by the time that these start getting delivered they are also going to be wanting to replace the oldest 772 models
cs
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Manila
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I sincerely hope the B787 / A350 is an expansion with a return on a direct basis to the lost cities of Manila, Taipei and Jakarta. 800m people in SE Asia and some of the fastest growing economies. Direct access to London would give BA and the UK huge competitive advantage over our Middle East friends.
How would BA expand at LHR? The only option they have would be to downgrade domestic flights in order to extend their long haul route expansion. Of course the other option would be to operate out of the regions, but as there is no interest then it aint going to happen.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: EDI, LHR, NQY
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Think you've answered your own question there.
Not just domestic - I expect you'll see the odd short-haul market trimmed in due course.
3x daily to Leeds Bradford versus the sole direct operator to an emerging long-haul destination? Hmmm....
Not just domestic - I expect you'll see the odd short-haul market trimmed in due course.
3x daily to Leeds Bradford versus the sole direct operator to an emerging long-haul destination? Hmmm....
Manila, Taipei and Jakarta are all examples of destinations now becoming more difficult for BA, with the rise of the Gulf carriers and Turkish, who will all offer one-stop services from multiple UK points at less than whatever BA choose to charge, the local national carrier, who will be an initial choice for many of the passengers originating in those countries, OneWorld carriers Cathay (especially) and Malaysian, who will suck up the OneWorld FF cardholders, low-yield markets (especially the first and third), and the fact that London is too far west to offer connections onward to Europe, and these points are too far east for BA to offer connections from them to the USA, because it is shorter the other way round.
Jakarta/CGK was mentioned - Garuda are (re-) starting from Gatwick for the W13 season, with new 777ER's. These will be non-stops, unlike the "bus-stop" services (en-route to Bali/DPS) that I remember from the 90's.
Their previous reputation might disuade Europeans, but as WHBM said they may be first choice for pax from the originating Country.
No doubt they will in time pick-up lots of a UK leisure pax looking for another 1 stop option to DPS aswell.
Their previous reputation might disuade Europeans, but as WHBM said they may be first choice for pax from the originating Country.
No doubt they will in time pick-up lots of a UK leisure pax looking for another 1 stop option to DPS aswell.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Manila
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For lost cities we can also add KL to the list and its somewhat outdated to think about Manila and Jakarta as low yield. For the Middle East carriers that maybe so because they are carrying hoards of overseas workers to work in the Gulf. For example the UK is the largest foreign investor in the Philippines, hence the Presidents visit to the UK last year. SE Asia is a market nearly the size of China in terms of population and attractiveness.
There is strong one world competition from CX and MH also Garuda and PR have both stated they want to open up to London.
BA still have the same agent in Manila and their own check in desk with the first leg on CX via HKG. This is about routes that have been served in the recent past
However the game changer could be what the B787 and A350 was designed for, long thin direct routes bypassing the need to stops at hubs.
Could it be the antidote to Middle East Carriers for premium passengers who prefer a nights rest rather than a wake up call in the middle of the night to change aircraft in the gulf! It gets my vote
There is strong one world competition from CX and MH also Garuda and PR have both stated they want to open up to London.
BA still have the same agent in Manila and their own check in desk with the first leg on CX via HKG. This is about routes that have been served in the recent past
However the game changer could be what the B787 and A350 was designed for, long thin direct routes bypassing the need to stops at hubs.
Could it be the antidote to Middle East Carriers for premium passengers who prefer a nights rest rather than a wake up call in the middle of the night to change aircraft in the gulf! It gets my vote
Last edited by mybrico; 23rd Apr 2013 at 10:30.
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long thin direct routes bypassing the need to stops at hubs.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Manila
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Agree slots are the issue and dare i say move leisure routes to LGW as in the past. Its LHR and world class T5 that passengers would prefer and new routes with direct connections to SEAsia would be attractive i hope to the UK regions and near Europe connections. Rolling back the the love affair the regions seem to have with Middle East Carriers and maybe restoring aviation jobs to the UK.
Unlikely that GA or PR would get into LHR giving BA the advantage for Premium traffic
Unlikely that GA or PR would get into LHR giving BA the advantage for Premium traffic
Last edited by mybrico; 23rd Apr 2013 at 13:51.
Paxing All Over The World
mybrico
... would be nice but it's way too late for that.
Irrespective of what any individual European legacy carrier might do - the swing of power to the Middle and Far East is far too strong to stop. One simple example, Qantas moved their European partnerships.
For those that used to change at LHR before the long haul, to now have a break closer to mid-way in the flight is appealing. The 45/60 minutes at the UK end is very tiring, particularly after an 11 hour sector. I have done those trips in the past and didn't like it.
There is no doubt that IAG clearly understands how things are going to be, both the non-expansion of LHR and the the M.E. situation.
Rolling back the the love affair the regions seem to have with Middle Carriers ...
Irrespective of what any individual European legacy carrier might do - the swing of power to the Middle and Far East is far too strong to stop. One simple example, Qantas moved their European partnerships.
For those that used to change at LHR before the long haul, to now have a break closer to mid-way in the flight is appealing. The 45/60 minutes at the UK end is very tiring, particularly after an 11 hour sector. I have done those trips in the past and didn't like it.
There is no doubt that IAG clearly understands how things are going to be, both the non-expansion of LHR and the the M.E. situation.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Manila
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I respect your view but i prefer a nights sleep than 7 hours and then another 6 hour flight from MNL to LHR, its down to the individual
Its about choice and I would like BA to bring it back with A350's and B787's. Although I accept that at least one flight may have to be a daylight sector.
Whilst traffic has / may move to the middle east hubs i don't think its game over.
London and the UK are world class destinations and direct links are desirable and necessary to growing parts of the world. Its good for UK plc as well as BA.
Its not unfortunately about expanding LHR but making the best use of it
Its about choice and I would like BA to bring it back with A350's and B787's. Although I accept that at least one flight may have to be a daylight sector.
Whilst traffic has / may move to the middle east hubs i don't think its game over.
London and the UK are world class destinations and direct links are desirable and necessary to growing parts of the world. Its good for UK plc as well as BA.
Its not unfortunately about expanding LHR but making the best use of it
Last edited by mybrico; 23rd Apr 2013 at 13:50.
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Don't forget another threat in the region for BA....
BA is certainly concerned about the likes of EK, EY and QR. But they also much watch their back closer to home: Turkish Airlines could be an even more powerful adversary given:
- Significant access to 2nd and 3rd tier airports in the EU (8-9 cities in Germany alone vs. 3-4 for Emirates)
- Huge new fleet with a bigger longhaul order on the way soon - could be more 777s or some new A380s/748s
- A new airport planned including 5-6 runways to accomodate all of the potential growth
- Intent on ultimately using 300-400 new or relatively new aircraft to serve 300 destinations worldwide (many of them nonstop with multiple frequencies for destinations within a certain radius) - how can BA or any other Euro legacy compete with that connectivity?
- Fantastic geographic location - perfect gateway between East/West
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Yes Turkish is the same business model potentially as the Gulf airlines and may be a better location.
The question is the same - what is the response to super hubs
BA have a huge advantage - London and the UK - people want to fly there. Direct access to major world cities using the technology of the next generation aircraft to achieve that could make the best use of BA resources.
Adding back emerging world cities like Manila, Jakarta, Taipei, KL to the BA route map is a realistic alternative. Even direct flights to long reach cities like Sydney and Melbourne.
Its not an option to compete with subsidized Superhubs, i want to go direct
The question is the same - what is the response to super hubs
BA have a huge advantage - London and the UK - people want to fly there. Direct access to major world cities using the technology of the next generation aircraft to achieve that could make the best use of BA resources.
Adding back emerging world cities like Manila, Jakarta, Taipei, KL to the BA route map is a realistic alternative. Even direct flights to long reach cities like Sydney and Melbourne.
Its not an option to compete with subsidized Superhubs, i want to go direct
Last edited by mybrico; 24th Apr 2013 at 03:03.
Join Date: Jan 2008
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BA has a definite advantage for passengers wanting to fly to the UK and some nearby business cities in Europe. But what about the beyond traffic? Plenty of North and South Americans fly to India, ME and Eastern Africa. BA used to be a logical first or second choice, but now Emirates, Qatar, Etihad and Turkish have increased both the one-stop options to those regions (in many cases offering far more destination choices) and the level of quality service. It is difficult to compete with EK's A380 and it's business and first class options. Of course, having loyalty programs help BA retain some business passengers, but Turkish and Qatar have recently joined alliances as well and can offer bolstered loyalty points for those passengers who want them.
It will be interesting to see how BA adapts with the new 787s, A350s and Super A380s in the future and perhaps develops higher levels of service in the future.
It will be interesting to see how BA adapts with the new 787s, A350s and Super A380s in the future and perhaps develops higher levels of service in the future.
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British Airways 787 has been painted with blue engines:http://kpae.********.co.uk/2013/04/p...l#comment-form
