Ryanair - 6
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ncleflights
You are right. The service sector not only follows consumer demand but seeks to influence and control it. Ryanair - like many other suppliers - knows what it can offer in order to make a profit, and therefore seeks to 'educate' the market to be able to 'benefit' from it.
I too fly out of Newcastle a lot, and am pleased to be able to make a choice between airlines like KLM, Lufthansa, Jet2.com, Ryanair, easyJet, Emirates and Eastern. I'm also looking forward to flying on manx2.com's new NCL-IOM service.
In my experience, you will find both "Mr and Mrs Responsible" and "Wayne and Waynetta", as you call them, sitting alonside each other on most of these. And the latter may well have ended up paying more for their tickets than the former.
So why do people fly Ryanair? Three reasons, in my view: Cost - Preference - Habit. Let me explain:
Cost
You are right. The service sector not only follows consumer demand but seeks to influence and control it. Ryanair - like many other suppliers - knows what it can offer in order to make a profit, and therefore seeks to 'educate' the market to be able to 'benefit' from it.
I too fly out of Newcastle a lot, and am pleased to be able to make a choice between airlines like KLM, Lufthansa, Jet2.com, Ryanair, easyJet, Emirates and Eastern. I'm also looking forward to flying on manx2.com's new NCL-IOM service.
In my experience, you will find both "Mr and Mrs Responsible" and "Wayne and Waynetta", as you call them, sitting alonside each other on most of these. And the latter may well have ended up paying more for their tickets than the former.
So why do people fly Ryanair? Three reasons, in my view: Cost - Preference - Habit. Let me explain:
Cost
- A forthcoming trip includes three sectors on Ryanair costing all-in £5-01, £4-70 and £6, and one sector on flybe costing £32-99, plus a £6-70 coach ride, £2 and £3 bus rides, two £10 taxi fares, one £2-20 and one £2-90 Metro fare and two rail sectors costing £11-70 and £8-50. Total £105-70.
- To do the same journey on the same dates avoiding Ryanair would cost one £2-20 and one £2-90 on the Metro, £56-50 by train, the £6-70 coach and £32-99 flybe sectors, two £10 taxi fares, the £11-70 rail fare and another flybe flight at £32-99. Total £166-28.
- If my maths is right, that's about a £60 difference, or just under 40% off the higher costing package.
- This is a hard one. How could anyone prefer to fly Ryanair? Or how much extra inconvenience might someone put up with to achieve the above cost saving? Some people are more discriminating or less bothered than others.
- It's got to be an individual thing.
- We get used to things very quickly. Timing getting up from the airport seat to be somewhere near the front of the non-priority boarding queue; bringing a packed lunch or dinner to eat on the plane; becoming familiar with booking and checking-in online.
- Once you get used to the Ryanair way of doing things you adjust your behaviour accordingly. Hey presto, it is now your 'normal' way of operating.
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Its not what Ryanair do its the way that they do it
It might not seem fashionable right now but basically they are f**ked, they have to drive the the luggage charges up crazy levels to make the numbers add up, that plus no checkin desks and extra's that hurt like hell deter many.
Take a ski holiday as a point in case, if you are doing a DIY trip you will have your own boots (a seperate bag around 6kg) maybe your own ski's or board plus luggage which will be more than 15 kg, bottom line for many an all in deal Inghams/crystall will be a better deal, plus if you get snowed in at resort or delayed or diverted on the way out its their problem and cost to resolve, can you guess what the response from the Ryanair desk would be if you told them that the road was closed and that's why you missed your flight, Fek off that'll be 230 euro's
people have had enough,a pound for a piss £100 for a CV, £450 for an interview, £5.5k for a command upgrade assement, this isn't a sustainable business model
I would rather boil my head than subject myself to Ryanair, the reason people don't want to go to Dublin is not the £7 for a pint or the over priced hotel's its the fact that to get there for many means Ryanair, well guess what 2010 is the year that the chickens come home to roost and Racedo its not about the crews, who are just trying to earn a living same as me n other's
Who wants to sweat it out in a que to see how much more your gonna have to pay
But hey i could be completly wrong..............
It might not seem fashionable right now but basically they are f**ked, they have to drive the the luggage charges up crazy levels to make the numbers add up, that plus no checkin desks and extra's that hurt like hell deter many.
Take a ski holiday as a point in case, if you are doing a DIY trip you will have your own boots (a seperate bag around 6kg) maybe your own ski's or board plus luggage which will be more than 15 kg, bottom line for many an all in deal Inghams/crystall will be a better deal, plus if you get snowed in at resort or delayed or diverted on the way out its their problem and cost to resolve, can you guess what the response from the Ryanair desk would be if you told them that the road was closed and that's why you missed your flight, Fek off that'll be 230 euro's
people have had enough,a pound for a piss £100 for a CV, £450 for an interview, £5.5k for a command upgrade assement, this isn't a sustainable business model
I would rather boil my head than subject myself to Ryanair, the reason people don't want to go to Dublin is not the £7 for a pint or the over priced hotel's its the fact that to get there for many means Ryanair, well guess what 2010 is the year that the chickens come home to roost and Racedo its not about the crews, who are just trying to earn a living same as me n other's
Who wants to sweat it out in a que to see how much more your gonna have to pay
But hey i could be completly wrong..............
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I used to work for Ryanair and let me tell you, I'd never fly with them having seen how things work on the inside. That aside, their prices are not actually low as many have pointed out on here. Yes, the actual ticket price might be virtually nothing, but as soon as you pass through the booking process and added luggage etc, it's not so appealling.
I am off to AGP soon so thought, shop around and see. My findings:
All inclusive return prices (ticket, baggage, taxes etc) from LGW, for one adult:
Ryanair £93.50
easyJet £62.40
Aer Lingus £67.40
BA Not available
I am off to AGP soon so thought, shop around and see. My findings:
All inclusive return prices (ticket, baggage, taxes etc) from LGW, for one adult:
Ryanair £93.50
easyJet £62.40
Aer Lingus £67.40
BA Not available
Join Date: Oct 2007
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al446
Your failure to understand the Ryanair concept of 'Low Cost'
is apparent.If you do not agree with it you can simply fly with
someone else.60m passengers took a chance with the airline
last year and,they made a profit - your stupid reference to
Ryanair 'being a cancer' is just THAT- stupid.
Your personal experience IS valid, but blanket statements should
be challenged.
Do you believe everything you read in the Daily Mail ?
If Tesco started charging you to park on their car-park
what would you do?
MM
Your failure to understand the Ryanair concept of 'Low Cost'
is apparent.If you do not agree with it you can simply fly with
someone else.60m passengers took a chance with the airline
last year and,they made a profit - your stupid reference to
Ryanair 'being a cancer' is just THAT- stupid.
Your personal experience IS valid, but blanket statements should
be challenged.
Do you believe everything you read in the Daily Mail ?
If Tesco started charging you to park on their car-park
what would you do?
MM
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Mickyman I realize you are obviously an advocate of Ryanair's approach to "Low Cost", but the question has to be at what cost is low cost?
Yes it may well be cheap if one was just to consider the basic cost but when you start adding on the various charges then it does not work out quite as cheal as MOL would like to have us believe. Add to that the "moral" cost of his employing F/Os on ridiculous wages it all adds up to something quite objectionable. Incidently I am not employed in the airline industry nor have I any current affiliation to it. I only occaisionally use airlines for holidays but certainly I would not use Ryanair.
Yes it may well be cheap if one was just to consider the basic cost but when you start adding on the various charges then it does not work out quite as cheal as MOL would like to have us believe. Add to that the "moral" cost of his employing F/Os on ridiculous wages it all adds up to something quite objectionable. Incidently I am not employed in the airline industry nor have I any current affiliation to it. I only occaisionally use airlines for holidays but certainly I would not use Ryanair.
I am off to AGP soon so thought, shop around and see. My findings:
All inclusive return prices (ticket, baggage, taxes etc) from LGW, for one adult:
Ryanair £93.50
easyJet £62.40
Aer Lingus £67.40
BA Not available
All inclusive return prices (ticket, baggage, taxes etc) from LGW, for one adult:
Ryanair £93.50
easyJet £62.40
Aer Lingus £67.40
BA Not available
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Blackball
I am completely impartial when it comes to Ryanair but I
dont think blanket statements like some people write should
be allowed to stand without challenge.
What everybody who criticises Ryanair fails to explain is how
they carried 60M passengers last year if they are so bad.
As for not paying FO's etc good wages then Im sorry but
if you dont like it get a job elsewhere.
The great thing about the whole Ryanair debate/rant is that
we ALL have a choice whether we drive the plane or sit in
the back.Nobody is holding a gun to anybodys head.
I have never been bamboozled by any airlines website
including Ryanair - I suggest that if/when people look
at the website of Ryanair they take their time and read
the page before they commit.If you have add ons then
be prepared to see the cost rise - Hav'ent baggage charges
for full service airlines risen steadily recently and there are
the fuel surcharges to consider also.
MM
I am completely impartial when it comes to Ryanair but I
dont think blanket statements like some people write should
be allowed to stand without challenge.
What everybody who criticises Ryanair fails to explain is how
they carried 60M passengers last year if they are so bad.
As for not paying FO's etc good wages then Im sorry but
if you dont like it get a job elsewhere.
The great thing about the whole Ryanair debate/rant is that
we ALL have a choice whether we drive the plane or sit in
the back.Nobody is holding a gun to anybodys head.
I have never been bamboozled by any airlines website
including Ryanair - I suggest that if/when people look
at the website of Ryanair they take their time and read
the page before they commit.If you have add ons then
be prepared to see the cost rise - Hav'ent baggage charges
for full service airlines risen steadily recently and there are
the fuel surcharges to consider also.
MM
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From DC9-32 :
I am off to AGP soon so thought, shop around and see. My findings:
All inclusive return prices (ticket, baggage, taxes etc) from LGW, for one adult:
Ryanair £93.50
easyJet £62.40
Aer Lingus £67.40
BA Not available
Comparisons like that can be made with quite other results.
I have just checked for a Dublin return on 9 december :
from Brussels, with Aer Lingus : 73,70 euros
from Charleroi, with Ryanair : 20,00 euros
(for both : no hold luggage, but everything else included )...
I am off to AGP soon so thought, shop around and see. My findings:
All inclusive return prices (ticket, baggage, taxes etc) from LGW, for one adult:
Ryanair £93.50
easyJet £62.40
Aer Lingus £67.40
BA Not available
Comparisons like that can be made with quite other results.
I have just checked for a Dublin return on 9 december :
from Brussels, with Aer Lingus : 73,70 euros
from Charleroi, with Ryanair : 20,00 euros
(for both : no hold luggage, but everything else included )...
Join Date: Mar 2008
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mickyman
I do not fail to grasp the concept of 'low cost' and DO understand the concept of 'apparent low cost' ie smoke and mirrors. RYR does not figure on comparison sites as it fails to fully disclose the price even for those bagless pax. as in WYSIWYG. Granted that the other locos have gone down this route but it was started by RYR, not Flybe as another has stated, they may have syarted with baggage but MOL grasped it with both hands. They are hardly transparent.
I have stated many times on PPrune that I will not use RYR and choose to fly with someone else. Or did that escape your myopic view?
Leaving aside that they made an apparent profit (so did many pyramid schemes before being shut by DTI) my comment re cancer was considered and, had you read it properly you would understand. From what I read on this site it is RYR that are driving down T&Cs for FD crew, they started BRK contracts which led to operators across EU taking the idea up. They introduced check in charges to be taken up by other locos. I need not go on. I stand by my descriptor as 'cancer'. You may disagree, it may suit you to be treated like cattle but each to their own. Far from my statement being STUPID I make it aftr long and careful consideration of how the airline segment of business is to survive, my opinion remains unchanged. It is not a 'blanket statement', you are very fond of that phrase, it is directed only at RYR. You don't have shares do you?
FYI, I would NEVER let knowingly allow the Daily Mail within touching distance of me.
Vis-a-vis Tesco, I shop around like all others, you should try it then the scales may fall from your eyes.
I am sure Blackball stated the lack of being employed in the airline business so I think s/he may have a job elsewhere and does not need to "get a job elsewhere"
How does that work? Can I drive the plane please? I won't be silly, honest.
MM, Get real.
I have stated many times on PPrune that I will not use RYR and choose to fly with someone else. Or did that escape your myopic view?
Leaving aside that they made an apparent profit (so did many pyramid schemes before being shut by DTI) my comment re cancer was considered and, had you read it properly you would understand. From what I read on this site it is RYR that are driving down T&Cs for FD crew, they started BRK contracts which led to operators across EU taking the idea up. They introduced check in charges to be taken up by other locos. I need not go on. I stand by my descriptor as 'cancer'. You may disagree, it may suit you to be treated like cattle but each to their own. Far from my statement being STUPID I make it aftr long and careful consideration of how the airline segment of business is to survive, my opinion remains unchanged. It is not a 'blanket statement', you are very fond of that phrase, it is directed only at RYR. You don't have shares do you?
FYI, I would NEVER let knowingly allow the Daily Mail within touching distance of me.
Vis-a-vis Tesco, I shop around like all others, you should try it then the scales may fall from your eyes.
I am sure Blackball stated the lack of being employed in the airline business so I think s/he may have a job elsewhere and does not need to "get a job elsewhere"
The great thing about the whole Ryanair debate/rant is that
we ALL have a choice whether we drive the plane or sit in
the back.Nobody is holding a gun to anybodys head.
we ALL have a choice whether we drive the plane or sit in
the back.Nobody is holding a gun to anybodys head.
MM, Get real.
Granted that the other locos have gone down this route but it was started by RYR, not Flybe as another has stated, they may have syarted with baggage but MOL grasped it with both hands.
Ryanair to charge fee for luggage check-in - Financial Times- msnbc.com
And now everybody is in on it or trying to get in on it
Aviation Today :: U.S. Still Rookies on Ancillary Revenues
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ASFKAP
Welcome back.
Balance is needed sometimes or it becomes a rant not a debate.
'As a brief trawl through some of your previous posts will confirm'
this could be true to the opposite effect of all your posts here -
could it not?
al446
So you see Ryanair as a trail blazer that other loco's / full service
airlines follow!
Please explain what you mean by an 'apparent profit'
'Vis-a-vis Tesco, I shop around like all others' that is the answer to ALL
your problems with Ryanair.
'How does that work? Can I drive the plane please? I won't be silly, honest'
Please feel free to re-read my comments as you plainly (!) did not
understand fully.
Why are you commenting on an airline you never use!!!
Can you please explain HOW Ryanair had 60m passengers last year or is that another untruth?
MM
Welcome back.
Balance is needed sometimes or it becomes a rant not a debate.
'As a brief trawl through some of your previous posts will confirm'
this could be true to the opposite effect of all your posts here -
could it not?
al446
So you see Ryanair as a trail blazer that other loco's / full service
airlines follow!
Please explain what you mean by an 'apparent profit'
'Vis-a-vis Tesco, I shop around like all others' that is the answer to ALL
your problems with Ryanair.
'How does that work? Can I drive the plane please? I won't be silly, honest'
Please feel free to re-read my comments as you plainly (!) did not
understand fully.
Why are you commenting on an airline you never use!!!
Can you please explain HOW Ryanair had 60m passengers last year or is that another untruth?
MM
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al446
After implying that MM was of low intellect because he didn't go to university (so what?), you then completely misunderstand the statement
The great thing about the whole Ryanair debate/rant is that
we ALL have a choice whether we drive the plane or sit in
the back.Nobody is holding a gun to anybodys head.
How does that work? Can I drive the plane please? I won't be silly, honest.
MM, Get real.
There was a comma omitted after the word choice, showing that the choice was between working for/using Ryanair or NOT doing so.
It is quite obvious where the lack of intellect lies.
After implying that MM was of low intellect because he didn't go to university (so what?), you then completely misunderstand the statement
The great thing about the whole Ryanair debate/rant is that
we ALL have a choice whether we drive the plane or sit in
the back.Nobody is holding a gun to anybodys head.
How does that work? Can I drive the plane please? I won't be silly, honest.
MM, Get real.
There was a comma omitted after the word choice, showing that the choice was between working for/using Ryanair or NOT doing so.
It is quite obvious where the lack of intellect lies.
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ASFKAP
Why did they carry 60m passengers last year if they are so bad......as you
keep stating.
My impartiality enables me to see both sides of the argument and
decide who I side with.Having facts (like the above question - that you fail to answer)at hand, blows your position out of the water.
MM
Why did they carry 60m passengers last year if they are so bad......as you
keep stating.
My impartiality enables me to see both sides of the argument and
decide who I side with.Having facts (like the above question - that you fail to answer)at hand, blows your position out of the water.
MM
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Mickeyman,
You would not know impartiality if it hit you in the face.
That is why you are now thread banned until I remember to unban you, or not as the case may be.
That goes for anyone who cannot debate a subject without an impartial view. Instead of factual comments.
Time after time we tell you this and time after time you ignore it.
Get used to it or get off PPRuNe and stop wasting our time.
A&R Mods.
You would not know impartiality if it hit you in the face.
That is why you are now thread banned until I remember to unban you, or not as the case may be.
That goes for anyone who cannot debate a subject without an impartial view. Instead of factual comments.
Time after time we tell you this and time after time you ignore it.
Get used to it or get off PPRuNe and stop wasting our time.
A&R Mods.
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Ryanair had a headline profit for the last year. It also made a profit for the first qtr of 2009/10. The profit is very much determined by when it hedges its fuel. Some years it buys at just the right time and others it gets badly wrong.
The winter will be loss making like many airlines but this year the profit in the summer is likely to be a little bigger than the headline loss in the winter. The longterm problem is that they have too many new planes on order which can only be filled by cutting fares. The oil price is likely to be a higher next year. In the short term higher charges can keep the firm in profit but if Pax think they are being overcharged they will go with easyjet or jet2 next year.
The winter will be loss making like many airlines but this year the profit in the summer is likely to be a little bigger than the headline loss in the winter. The longterm problem is that they have too many new planes on order which can only be filled by cutting fares. The oil price is likely to be a higher next year. In the short term higher charges can keep the firm in profit but if Pax think they are being overcharged they will go with easyjet or jet2 next year.
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Ryanair Mystery
Low-cost airline Ryanair carried 60m passengers profitably last year
but find themselves hated on this site - if they are so bad how come
they carried so many passengers?
I have asked this question on the main Ryanair6 thread and been
banned but would like an answer anyway.
Please feel free to 'trawl' through my previous posts to enlighten
me as to why I was treated this way.
As I keep getting a ban for pointing out flaws in certain peoples
arguments against the airline I can only assume that this site has an
agenda to uphold that is neither fair or open to question.
MM
but find themselves hated on this site - if they are so bad how come
they carried so many passengers?
I have asked this question on the main Ryanair6 thread and been
banned but would like an answer anyway.
Please feel free to 'trawl' through my previous posts to enlighten
me as to why I was treated this way.
As I keep getting a ban for pointing out flaws in certain peoples
arguments against the airline I can only assume that this site has an
agenda to uphold that is neither fair or open to question.
MM
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Mickyman, I dont know why you have been banned. However, I flew Ryanair last Friday from Alicante to Bratislava. The flight was excellent. The crew were very nice.
There were about 6 Ryanair flights departing close together. Dublin was departing next to my flight, I had feared the usual scrum at the gate, but on this instance the flight was boarding early after an early arrival from Zaragosa. The flight to Bratislava was early as well as full. We met strong turbulence after we crossed Italy, this lasted for some time and it was the worst turbulence that I have seen in a long time. We made an excellent landing and everybody clapped.
For me Ryanair is fine, and a great success story, the problem for me is that if we are going on a trip there are so many restrictions and additional costs that it is often hassle.
However, this trip was good. For many on here it is snobbery the mention of Ryanair being good. If Ryanair tried to make the brand attractive it might be different.
There were about 6 Ryanair flights departing close together. Dublin was departing next to my flight, I had feared the usual scrum at the gate, but on this instance the flight was boarding early after an early arrival from Zaragosa. The flight to Bratislava was early as well as full. We met strong turbulence after we crossed Italy, this lasted for some time and it was the worst turbulence that I have seen in a long time. We made an excellent landing and everybody clapped.
For me Ryanair is fine, and a great success story, the problem for me is that if we are going on a trip there are so many restrictions and additional costs that it is often hassle.
However, this trip was good. For many on here it is snobbery the mention of Ryanair being good. If Ryanair tried to make the brand attractive it might be different.
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I think the angle that you're approaching this is the wrong with regards to PPRuNe. The airline does what it says on the tin for the passenegers (as long as you're not fooled by examples such as 'Frankfurt' Hahn or the multitude of surcharges), however for flight crew it's a different matter.
As this is a forum for professional pilots, expect the vitriol extolled for driving down industry terms & conditions, and the poor working practices that I understand Ryanair pilots have to endure (paying for their own sim Hotac being one example).
If this was a forum for passengers who enjoy Ryanair's low prices, multiple ancilliary charges, free seating gate scrums and their use of dirt cheap airports far from city centres then there would probably be more joie de vivre. As its not, don't expect it!
As this is a forum for professional pilots, expect the vitriol extolled for driving down industry terms & conditions, and the poor working practices that I understand Ryanair pilots have to endure (paying for their own sim Hotac being one example).
If this was a forum for passengers who enjoy Ryanair's low prices, multiple ancilliary charges, free seating gate scrums and their use of dirt cheap airports far from city centres then there would probably be more joie de vivre. As its not, don't expect it!