Aer Lingus - 4
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Co. Antrim UK
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I would far rather get a lift to my local airport or park my car at it, and have a stop over for a an hour at another airport than drive for 2 hours. Its coming back especially from across the pond, you have travelled all night not much sleep. A 2 hr car journey to me is a killer. If EI started Dubai from BFS via DUB I wouldn't think twice about the stop over.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Cork, Ireland
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It is getting more interesting by the moment! There were reports on today's 1 pm news on RTE radio that the Shannon authorities are ready to offer reduced charges to EI and said that Aer Lingus's own cost base at snn could be looked at. That suggests to me that one party is telling another how to run their business?
There is no problem with Shannon offering EI lower charges to continue LHR services as long as fellow DAA airports can do the same. I am sure EI would welcome reduced charges at Cork Airport if that is what it would take to base another aeroplane in the Munster capital for a few more new routes next summer.
Mind you, Mr O'Leary and Ryanair would have their beady eyes on any reduced charges too being offered by snn to a competitor on another London route?
Hmm!
There is no problem with Shannon offering EI lower charges to continue LHR services as long as fellow DAA airports can do the same. I am sure EI would welcome reduced charges at Cork Airport if that is what it would take to base another aeroplane in the Munster capital for a few more new routes next summer.
Mind you, Mr O'Leary and Ryanair would have their beady eyes on any reduced charges too being offered by snn to a competitor on another London route?
Hmm!
Join Date: Mar 2005
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fullrich->An analogous situation would be the number of people who would go from Dublin to Belfast to fly transatlantic rather than put up with the Shannon stopover on a direct flight. Most people would choose to fly from Dublin in those circumstances. People would certainly prefer a direct flight, but a Belfast stopover is preferable to no flight at all.
Join Date: Aug 2000
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The 4 pm news is that an umbrella group is being formed to coordinate the actions of the save snn-lhr groups. A legal action is being looked at and a Senior Counsel is being instructed to consider the case.
Whilst flying ex Cork to Belfast and onwards to New York would be far from ideal it is sure better than having to travel by road to snn for your transatlantic flight.
Decent Cork people having to travel to Shannon by road for flights to America have been made mugs of by clever snn marketing for long enough.
Whilst flying ex Cork to Belfast and onwards to New York would be far from ideal it is sure better than having to travel by road to snn for your transatlantic flight.
Decent Cork people having to travel to Shannon by road for flights to America have been made mugs of by clever snn marketing for long enough.
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TTT - why should EI flog 330s and soon 350s between ORK and BFS the way they were flogged from DUB to SNN all these years? Let's be realistic shall we.
As for Senior Counsel - who's picking up the bill for him I wonder? Bet it's Clare CC rather than the unions or the companies complaining - hope I'm wrong.
This is all very interesting - and a bit of a sign of things to come if Ireland ever did become a 32-county state... how many more plum regional sinecures would cross the border and how understanding would those whose jobs were moved north be about it? On this evidence - not much.
As for Senior Counsel - who's picking up the bill for him I wonder? Bet it's Clare CC rather than the unions or the companies complaining - hope I'm wrong.
This is all very interesting - and a bit of a sign of things to come if Ireland ever did become a 32-county state... how many more plum regional sinecures would cross the border and how understanding would those whose jobs were moved north be about it? On this evidence - not much.
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Here's the simple solution.
If SNN-LHR is necessary to support the impoverished economy of the West, then it fits the PSO requirements.
Aer Arann are receiving a large annual sum to operate PSO routes - so the precedent is there to offer a similiar subvention to Aer Lingus to continue the route.
And why not? Besides the subvention Aer Arann gets, Ryanair is also in receipt of subvention from most of the airports they operate into. Its all part of the game now, so lets not be precious about it.
You want the routes?
Pay for them!
Ain't the 'free market' jest wunnerful!
If SNN-LHR is necessary to support the impoverished economy of the West, then it fits the PSO requirements.
Aer Arann are receiving a large annual sum to operate PSO routes - so the precedent is there to offer a similiar subvention to Aer Lingus to continue the route.
And why not? Besides the subvention Aer Arann gets, Ryanair is also in receipt of subvention from most of the airports they operate into. Its all part of the game now, so lets not be precious about it.
You want the routes?
Pay for them!
Ain't the 'free market' jest wunnerful!
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Originally Posted by asianfly
One great advantage SNN and DUB have is US pre-immigration and customs check. Nothing better than landing in the States and avoiding that long line of interrogation and chaos at immigration!
CaptKremin, how could you make the route a PSO one unless the successful tenderer also had the necessary LHR slots and was prepared, one assumes, to shelve any other uses of said slots in favour of SNN?
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CaptKremin, how could you make the route a PSO one unless the successful tenderer also had the necessary LHR slots and was prepared, one assumes, to shelve any other uses of said slots in favour of SNN?
Bertie: Keep the SNN-LHR route
Dermot: Can't afford it, sorry.
Bertie: OK, here's xxx* million subvention.
Dermot: Done.
End of story.
*Insert whatever figure is sufficient to compensate for return of the leased slots, plus a bonus subvention to make the route sufficiently profitable.
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Here's the EU regs on PSOs - start from page 6 of the PDF (Article 4) I think. Stansted, Gatwick and Heathrow are referred to as an "airport system" which may muddy the waters.
Since EI have admitted that SNN is (somewhat) profitable, the Commission may have trouble understanding why taxpayer dosh should simply increase EI's profit margin, especially when most PSOs are sub 50 seats rather than a 174 seat A320.
even then, EI must then acquire slots, take them from DUB or ORK, or cancel the BFS routes. If the latter, Big Ian will have a sense of humour failure because of the "treachery of Dublin"...
edit to note: since the PSO must be published in the official journal, any slotholding EU airline at LHR would theoretically be in line to bid for it - e.g. BA, bmi.
Since EI have admitted that SNN is (somewhat) profitable, the Commission may have trouble understanding why taxpayer dosh should simply increase EI's profit margin, especially when most PSOs are sub 50 seats rather than a 174 seat A320.
even then, EI must then acquire slots, take them from DUB or ORK, or cancel the BFS routes. If the latter, Big Ian will have a sense of humour failure because of the "treachery of Dublin"...
edit to note: since the PSO must be published in the official journal, any slotholding EU airline at LHR would theoretically be in line to bid for it - e.g. BA, bmi.
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Since EI have admitted that SNN is (somewhat) profitable, the Commission may have trouble understanding why taxpayer dosh should simply increase EI's profit margin, especially when most PSOs are sub 50 seats rather than a 174 seat A320.
Asking whether the EU would have trouble understanding ALT's position on profitability is not ALT's problem is it!?
Thats up to the Irish Government to sort out, and if it can't, then let the FREE MARKET decide what should happen next.
Bye Bye Shannon.
even then, EI must then acquire slots, take them from DUB or ORK, or cancel the BFS routes. If the latter, Big Ian will have a sense of humour failure because of the "treachery of Dublin"...
edit to note: since the PSO must be published in the official journal, any slotholding EU airline at LHR would theoretically be in line to bid for it - e.g. BA, bmi.
I wonder if the penny has dropped at Shannon yet, that if you court FR through your front door, you may soon see all competition slink out the back door. Its the nature of the beast to suck up all opposition like a bloody great hoover.
All this free-market tripe is mere hypocrisy when it comes down to it.
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Why not a PSO for GWY-LHR, KIR-LHR or NOC-LHR? Is it because they are not as good at turning up the heat on Bertie and the Boys ?
The Shannon Brass Band has been outstanding this week with their Save the West and The Pale v The Rest slogans.
Maybe it'll work for them but if it does the notion that Aerlingus are a commercialy driven private airline will disappear from the Financial Instiutions that invested in it.
The Shannon Brass Band has been outstanding this week with their Save the West and The Pale v The Rest slogans.
Maybe it'll work for them but if it does the notion that Aerlingus are a commercialy driven private airline will disappear from the Financial Instiutions that invested in it.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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It is looking like the legal tape that Cullen put into AL's Article's of Association, ONLY required the Government's ok if they were to try to sell or lease the slots. It does not prevent them from simply moving those slots to another base within the Aer Lingus company.
If this is the case, All of Cork's slots are wide open as well, and Dublin could lose 3 out of it's 13 slots.
It explains Dempsey being so sheepish on the news earlier....
If this is the case, All of Cork's slots are wide open as well, and Dublin could lose 3 out of it's 13 slots.
It explains Dempsey being so sheepish on the news earlier....
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Question Re Aer Lingus in Cork
Aer Lingus currently have a 22.10 flight coming back to Cork from LHR. It is still bookable online, into October and November. However, a colleague of my brother's who is going over for a football game at the end of October, and had booked his return flight, got a call from Aer Lingus today saying that the 22.10 flight is now cancelled. I think it is coming back Sunday October the 28th. Does anyone know what this about ? I'm a little suspicious considering the Shannon situation.....
Aer Lingus currently have a 22.10 flight coming back to Cork from LHR. It is still bookable online, into October and November. However, a colleague of my brother's who is going over for a football game at the end of October, and had booked his return flight, got a call from Aer Lingus today saying that the 22.10 flight is now cancelled. I think it is coming back Sunday October the 28th. Does anyone know what this about ? I'm a little suspicious considering the Shannon situation.....
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exactly. While CK was being a smartarse, Loganair already operates the LDY PSO and I believe Flybe did have a look at the last PSO tender as well.
While I do realise the EU regs don't specify a max size CK, the fact is that these are not granted on the nod - they require the assent of the Commission and member states can object. Also as ryan2000 pointed out other airports could then get in on the act.
I had a thought when EI was up for privatisation that the Government should have created a new company, paid EI market value for the slots, put the govt jets etc. on the civil AOC/register (Air Corps doesn't have to be the ones flying the GJs after all) and lease the slots to EI - therefore it could guarantee the slots would never be used in a way they didn't agree with because they could yank the leases and let Aer Arann or Ryanair or someone else operate the services.
While I do realise the EU regs don't specify a max size CK, the fact is that these are not granted on the nod - they require the assent of the Commission and member states can object. Also as ryan2000 pointed out other airports could then get in on the act.
I had a thought when EI was up for privatisation that the Government should have created a new company, paid EI market value for the slots, put the govt jets etc. on the civil AOC/register (Air Corps doesn't have to be the ones flying the GJs after all) and lease the slots to EI - therefore it could guarantee the slots would never be used in a way they didn't agree with because they could yank the leases and let Aer Arann or Ryanair or someone else operate the services.
, tsk tsk, Mark. That's FAR too intelligent for this shower !
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Mark, don't be so sensitive, I'm not getting at you, just losing the rag at the way this whole squalid mess has been handled by this shower of w**kers who call themselves a government.
As to the idea about removing the slots from ALT before the sale....don't you get it?
The SLOTS were (and probably still are) the MOST valuable assett Aer Lingus owned!!
Without the slots - nobody would've been buying at flotation, except perhaps a few (mug) small investors, and Bertie couldn't afford to screw them again after the Eircom fiasco.
Loganair and FlyBe...do they have LHR slots to spare?
Would a 50 seater into LHR be a commercially viable replacement for an A320?
Would the Westies tolerate being downgraded to a turboprop service?
Come on man!
As regards the EU....Bertie will be on his knees begging (if required) and I honestly believe the Pols will always stick together when push comes to shove. He'll get another 'dig out' from 'his mates'.
As to the idea about removing the slots from ALT before the sale....don't you get it?
The SLOTS were (and probably still are) the MOST valuable assett Aer Lingus owned!!
Without the slots - nobody would've been buying at flotation, except perhaps a few (mug) small investors, and Bertie couldn't afford to screw them again after the Eircom fiasco.
Loganair and FlyBe...do they have LHR slots to spare?
Would a 50 seater into LHR be a commercially viable replacement for an A320?
Would the Westies tolerate being downgraded to a turboprop service?
Come on man!
As regards the EU....Bertie will be on his knees begging (if required) and I honestly believe the Pols will always stick together when push comes to shove. He'll get another 'dig out' from 'his mates'.