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Does anyone know if BACF have any charter work planned for the winter season?
With the fleet having two more aircraft than last year I am quite suprised that BACF have not added a new route or two (BUD, PRG or WAW maybe) for the W11/12 season.
With the fleet having two more aircraft than last year I am quite suprised that BACF have not added a new route or two (BUD, PRG or WAW maybe) for the W11/12 season.
Join Date: Nov 2006
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EM190 into LCY
First off, as a fairly frequent traveller on EDI to LCY and back (roughly once a month for the last five years) i have to say loving the new fleet, much more comfortable and (my perception) much fewer delays.
anyway, next stoopid question in a very occasional series. (my last one about the old RJ's was a little off the mark so i'm ready for a mocking)
em190 steep approach into LCY, deploys speedbrakes on the final part of the descent.
if you were landing from a similarly steep profile approach, but onto a runway say twice as long would you still use the speed brakes?
ie are they needed to keep the speed down in the descent, or is it to allow the approach to be made with more throttle applied and thus speed up the transition into a go around if you need to abort the approach?
Or do the passengers just need waking up, and this is the easyist way to do it without touching them?
PS i know no real need for knowing the answer to this, it just popped into my head on Wednesday while being shoogled into LCY
anyway, next stoopid question in a very occasional series. (my last one about the old RJ's was a little off the mark so i'm ready for a mocking)
em190 steep approach into LCY, deploys speedbrakes on the final part of the descent.
if you were landing from a similarly steep profile approach, but onto a runway say twice as long would you still use the speed brakes?
ie are they needed to keep the speed down in the descent, or is it to allow the approach to be made with more throttle applied and thus speed up the transition into a go around if you need to abort the approach?
Or do the passengers just need waking up, and this is the easyist way to do it without touching them?
PS i know no real need for knowing the answer to this, it just popped into my head on Wednesday while being shoogled into LCY
Join Date: Aug 2000
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Rallymania; the spoilers are deployed on the approach to require more thrust on the engines so that in the event of a missed approach the engines will speed up much quicker. With out the spoilers the engines are pretty much at idle and would take too long to speed up in a go around.Think of it like being in the wrong gear in a car when you pull out to overtake and stand on the accelerator not much happens. By deploying the spoilers you've effectively dropped down a gear or two. The size of the runway has no bearing on the steep approach it just makes the landing trickier! Glad your liking our new toys!
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Towser`s explanation is very good, Also on the Embraer the spoilers help the fly by wire, fly the aircraft at a more comfortable attitude. With out it the nose would be pointing down at at a greater angle and it would feel uncomfortable in the cabin. The spoilers are also very clever on the Embraer and are active during the approach. If you watch them on a bumpy day they go in and out alot in reaction to the pitch of the aircraft to keep everything in balance.
A landing distance 'credit' applies to some aircraft types as a result of the steeper approach path due to the fact that a more precise touchdown point should be achievable. The RJ series benefits from this in terms of a reduced LDR, but I dont know if it also applies to the Embraers.
Can I ask a question about the "new toys" ? By coincidence I've only used the E190 each time, not the E170, but doubt they differ in this.
Does the autopilot do steeper turns than other types ? I have noticed when manoeuvring around that the bank angle in the E190 just seems steeper. It all feels nicely coordinated so the AP must have the ball in the middle, but it just seems, looking out of the window, to have a greater angle.
If you are going to say that it is the same as say an A320 then I'll just blame it on an optical illusion from the winglets sticking up.
Does the autopilot do steeper turns than other types ? I have noticed when manoeuvring around that the bank angle in the E190 just seems steeper. It all feels nicely coordinated so the AP must have the ball in the middle, but it just seems, looking out of the window, to have a greater angle.
If you are going to say that it is the same as say an A320 then I'll just blame it on an optical illusion from the winglets sticking up.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Manchester
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Manchester Ops
Was looking at Manchester Airport Wiki page and its showing BACF as operating Seasonal: Cagliari, Ibiza, Malaga, Palma de Mallorca from MAN T3!
Manchester Airport - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Are these flights on behalf of tour operators, schuduled seasonal flights yet to be published on BA.com or completely incorrect info?
Thanks
Manchester Airport - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Are these flights on behalf of tour operators, schuduled seasonal flights yet to be published on BA.com or completely incorrect info?
Thanks
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Cagliari
They have been confirmed for S12 this time operating MAN-CAG-MAN
BACF will also operate a MAN-OLB-MAN service S12.
Flights
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WHBM,
Towser is correct. It must be an illusion. I would suggest that the only way the bank angle appears greater, would only happen if the autopilot had been disengaged and the aircraft was being flown manually. I have no experience of the EMB 170/175, but on the EMB195, the flight guidance control system with the autopilot engaged, limits the bank angle to 17 degrees.
How are you Towser, working hard I trust, must be time for a holiday by now surely?
Towser is correct. It must be an illusion. I would suggest that the only way the bank angle appears greater, would only happen if the autopilot had been disengaged and the aircraft was being flown manually. I have no experience of the EMB 170/175, but on the EMB195, the flight guidance control system with the autopilot engaged, limits the bank angle to 17 degrees.
How are you Towser, working hard I trust, must be time for a holiday by now surely?
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@ LMB - incorrect sir. The 17 degree limit is with the "BANK" limiter engaged, primarily for OEI operation. Without getting the book out, the actual bank angle limit is a lot more than 17 degrees function, 35 degrees comes to mind as a max, and 25 degrees for LNAV operation.
- edit to add, same across all E-Jet variants -
- edit to add, same across all E-Jet variants -
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Thank you for pointing out my deliberate mistake! I was only using it as an illustration as to why the angle of bank may appear greater, in order to answer WHBM's question. I could not recall the actual numbers, but it is of course 35 degrees as you rightly pointed out and thank you for confirming it is the same as the 170/175 series.
Last edited by Lord Molton Brown; 28th Oct 2011 at 15:37. Reason: typo
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WHBM
When you ask about steeper than normal turns, are you referring to the final turn onto the localiser?
I've noticed that, depending on the closing angle and wind, this can be a much steeper turn than you'd see in any other part of your flight.
Unless of course, you've been with a particularly ropey pilot who was practising his hand flying!
When you ask about steeper than normal turns, are you referring to the final turn onto the localiser?
I've noticed that, depending on the closing angle and wind, this can be a much steeper turn than you'd see in any other part of your flight.
Unless of course, you've been with a particularly ropey pilot who was practising his hand flying!
Dear me, seem to have raised a few comments here ! Thank you to those on the flight deck for taking time to comment.
No, not just closing on finals. And I'm well used to the 180 degree turn after departing LCY 27 as well. What initially prompted this was a departure down to Palma, with a couple of such turns out over Kent. Then I noticed the same on the way home, and I've been watching since, and had another such experience heading for Edinburgh the day before the post. I am guessing the AP did all these because g-forces were neutral and we just went straight to the angle and held it to rollout. So not ropey at all (and way better balanced than WHBM's steep turns in the club PA28 !), just seemed steeper than common.
In passing, must compliment BA CF on starting that morning service to PMI. Left home at breakfast time, not middle of the night which the first departures from Gatwick require, proper hot breakfast on board, taxi from Palma, we were on the beach and in the Med before lunch.
Oh, and a pretty full load both ways as well.
No, not just closing on finals. And I'm well used to the 180 degree turn after departing LCY 27 as well. What initially prompted this was a departure down to Palma, with a couple of such turns out over Kent. Then I noticed the same on the way home, and I've been watching since, and had another such experience heading for Edinburgh the day before the post. I am guessing the AP did all these because g-forces were neutral and we just went straight to the angle and held it to rollout. So not ropey at all (and way better balanced than WHBM's steep turns in the club PA28 !), just seemed steeper than common.
In passing, must compliment BA CF on starting that morning service to PMI. Left home at breakfast time, not middle of the night which the first departures from Gatwick require, proper hot breakfast on board, taxi from Palma, we were on the beach and in the Med before lunch.
Oh, and a pretty full load both ways as well.
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Glad your enjoying the service it seems to have done pretty well and is sure to return next summer. The autopilot goes in at about 1000' out of Lcy before any turns so its all on autopilot and the only time it gets a little over enthusiastic is ,as Barbie said , sometimes turning onto finals.