DURHAM TEES VALLEY AIRPORT - 4
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Its on the Northern Echo website:
bmi to pull out of airports (From The Northern Echo)
but then so is.. 'see through blouses'
Rail staff's blouses are sheer disgrace (From The Northern Echo)
Yet another 'clear winner' marketing ploy by National Express East Coast
bmi to pull out of airports (From The Northern Echo)
but then so is.. 'see through blouses'
Rail staff's blouses are sheer disgrace (From The Northern Echo)
Yet another 'clear winner' marketing ploy by National Express East Coast
I've just heard about the MME-LHR and gasped.
How can this happen? I worked at Teesside 1983-85,and we used to send the 331/7 out full to the jump seat on many days, mostly on full fares, and with a cost base that pre-dated Ryanair's "pared to the bone" approach to overheads.
So, what's changed? Trains services have not improved. Industry and, hence, business travel has not declined. And, please don't let anyone say "recession" as, when I first came to the area from EMA, the whole area was in the deepest of recessions for many years, not just a slight touch of closing shoe shops, reduced profits at Starbucks, and sacked bankers. The route did very well indeed. All I can surmise is that passengers dislike the unsuitable equipment, dislike the clear statement that the route does not matter that much anymore. Dealing face-to-face with the passengers made me realise just how sensitive to the company's strategy they are, and having their loyalty treated with contempt means they simply choose another way to travel.
Nostalgic maybe, but this was the route that set Midland on the way to "the big time" at LHR, and now it's gone. Roll on Flybe. Ironically, one of their directors is an ex-Midland Teesside ticket agent, just like I was.
rg
How can this happen? I worked at Teesside 1983-85,and we used to send the 331/7 out full to the jump seat on many days, mostly on full fares, and with a cost base that pre-dated Ryanair's "pared to the bone" approach to overheads.
So, what's changed? Trains services have not improved. Industry and, hence, business travel has not declined. And, please don't let anyone say "recession" as, when I first came to the area from EMA, the whole area was in the deepest of recessions for many years, not just a slight touch of closing shoe shops, reduced profits at Starbucks, and sacked bankers. The route did very well indeed. All I can surmise is that passengers dislike the unsuitable equipment, dislike the clear statement that the route does not matter that much anymore. Dealing face-to-face with the passengers made me realise just how sensitive to the company's strategy they are, and having their loyalty treated with contempt means they simply choose another way to travel.
Nostalgic maybe, but this was the route that set Midland on the way to "the big time" at LHR, and now it's gone. Roll on Flybe. Ironically, one of their directors is an ex-Midland Teesside ticket agent, just like I was.
rg
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One of the reasons the route has suffered in recent years is the constant changing timetable , when I used the flight regularly in the eighties and nineties you could be in the centre of town for a 9 a.m meeting. Also I'm convinced that idiotic security measures are chasing punters onto the trains over the last few years.
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"Of course, we understand the huge pressures they are facing as a result of both the general economic climate and the specific difficulties they have highlighted arising from the actions of BAA in imposing charges at Heathrow which undermine the ability to maintain regional services and the impact of the punitive Air Passenger Duty charges, but we are anxious to maintain a dialogue with them on possibilities in the future."
This totally sums up MME's lack of strong management! Whereas LBA are persuing other airlines, MME is simply going to put up with it and even worse hope bmi might come knocking one day to start services back up-totally idiotic view!bmi have completely taken the mick out of mme with the baby debacle-now is the time to move on not hang on just in case!
This totally sums up MME's lack of strong management! Whereas LBA are persuing other airlines, MME is simply going to put up with it and even worse hope bmi might come knocking one day to start services back up-totally idiotic view!bmi have completely taken the mick out of mme with the baby debacle-now is the time to move on not hang on just in case!
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What's changed...
Midland 331,
Afraid lots has changed:
- world is in recession
- train services are continually improving
- costs of operating short air services have risen dramatically
- APD
etc.etc.
Can't see anyone replacing a London link from Durham...
Afraid lots has changed:
- world is in recession
- train services are continually improving
- costs of operating short air services have risen dramatically
- APD
etc.etc.
Can't see anyone replacing a London link from Durham...
Nope, I don't accept that the recession has that much to do with it - in 1983, we'd had the best part of four years of a severe recession, and the route was still booming, so much so that the fifth rotation 335/6 was added in 1984.
The route took a major hit circa 1977 with the introduction of accelerated train services on the East Coast Main Line, but I'm unconvinced that they've improved that much in recent times.
Mess around with times and equipment,and folks go elsewhere. There was even loyalty through severe punctuality problems through the late 'eighties.
Having typed my last post, I drove down the A66 through the 23 centreline at around 1630 today, to see a Barbie Jet on finals (almost as a symbol!). I've no idea of the timetable these days, but northbound at that time is not the optimum. The old 338 at 1725 was bang on, and used to run pretty much ful, as it fitted in well with the end of the business day.
Oh, and the Tony Blair factor. Indeed. When John Major was PM, Huntingdon magically got it's own non-stopper to Kings Cross, which disappeared soon after the General Election of 1997...
The route took a major hit circa 1977 with the introduction of accelerated train services on the East Coast Main Line, but I'm unconvinced that they've improved that much in recent times.
Mess around with times and equipment,and folks go elsewhere. There was even loyalty through severe punctuality problems through the late 'eighties.
Having typed my last post, I drove down the A66 through the 23 centreline at around 1630 today, to see a Barbie Jet on finals (almost as a symbol!). I've no idea of the timetable these days, but northbound at that time is not the optimum. The old 338 at 1725 was bang on, and used to run pretty much ful, as it fitted in well with the end of the business day.
Oh, and the Tony Blair factor. Indeed. When John Major was PM, Huntingdon magically got it's own non-stopper to Kings Cross, which disappeared soon after the General Election of 1997...
the fight back starts here...
Hugh Lang, group airports director with Peel Airports - which owns Durham Tees Valley Airport - said: “It would be foolish for us to express anything other than deep disappointment at this development, especially since we have had such a long and successful relationship with bmi.
"Of course, we understand the huge pressures they are facing as a result of both the general economic climate and the specific difficulties they have highlighted arising from the actions of BAA in imposing charges at Heathrow which undermine the ability to maintain regional services and the impact of the punitive Air Passenger Duty charges, but we are anxious to maintain a dialogue with them on possibilities in the future."
"Of course, we understand the huge pressures they are facing as a result of both the general economic climate and the specific difficulties they have highlighted arising from the actions of BAA in imposing charges at Heathrow which undermine the ability to maintain regional services and the impact of the punitive Air Passenger Duty charges, but we are anxious to maintain a dialogue with them on possibilities in the future."
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MME4eva
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Absolutely true, but it is cause & effect, the cause has been going on for years putting absolute incompetent & inexperienced idiots in positions that they were incapable of carrying out. The effect is much more obvious & in higher profile be it Baby, GSM or BMI. Unfortunately one has to believe that Peel as an airport operator are also as inept as the sad individuals that the they employ in the key management at DTV, else it all comes back to the long running conspiracy theory on this thread as to their real motives
As for the complacency view that emanates from some, KLM rubbing their hands, larger aircraft global connections etc. We'll see but if so it will be the punters who pay, lack of choice, higher fares & in the short term then is DTV-AMS really a solution, I have grave doubts.
This totally sums up MME's lack of strong management!
:Absolutely true, but it is cause & effect, the cause has been going on for years putting absolute incompetent & inexperienced idiots in positions that they were incapable of carrying out. The effect is much more obvious & in higher profile be it Baby, GSM or BMI. Unfortunately one has to believe that Peel as an airport operator are also as inept as the sad individuals that the they employ in the key management at DTV, else it all comes back to the long running conspiracy theory on this thread as to their real motives
As for the complacency view that emanates from some, KLM rubbing their hands, larger aircraft global connections etc. We'll see but if so it will be the punters who pay, lack of choice, higher fares & in the short term then is DTV-AMS really a solution, I have grave doubts.
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The argument for declining pax on the route is laughable. The reasons why we have seen a slow decline in pax number is that,
1. They have gone from 5 to 3 flights a day
2. They have messed the timings around and
3. They have reduced the size of the aircraft.
Each time this has happened they have seen a drop in pax numbers.
Agreed there are other factors but these are the main ones.
If you don't believe me check the pax figures before the embraers came onto the route!
1. They have gone from 5 to 3 flights a day
2. They have messed the timings around and
3. They have reduced the size of the aircraft.
Each time this has happened they have seen a drop in pax numbers.
Agreed there are other factors but these are the main ones.
If you don't believe me check the pax figures before the embraers came onto the route!
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I agree with all 3 reasons, bmi have set the wheels in motion and pretty much set the MME route to fail over the last few years.
Given the apparant lack of fortsight (surely management knew this was on its way as with GSM) and reluctance to explore other avenues, I suspect LBA will get flyBE to LGW as they already have a presence there and it looks like bmi regional are cutting CPH from LBA too so they will see LBA as more viable.
As for MME, this leaves pretty much eastern airways to LCY but, as mentioned before, this will be unlikely due to high landing fees and I suspect lack of appropriate slots into and out of LCY.
With regards to KLM, I'm sure the marketing dept have already been onto the phone to Holland giving the spin on what a great opportunity this presents but I'm not certain they have spare F100s ready to use just like that?
Given the apparant lack of fortsight (surely management knew this was on its way as with GSM) and reluctance to explore other avenues, I suspect LBA will get flyBE to LGW as they already have a presence there and it looks like bmi regional are cutting CPH from LBA too so they will see LBA as more viable.
As for MME, this leaves pretty much eastern airways to LCY but, as mentioned before, this will be unlikely due to high landing fees and I suspect lack of appropriate slots into and out of LCY.
With regards to KLM, I'm sure the marketing dept have already been onto the phone to Holland giving the spin on what a great opportunity this presents but I'm not certain they have spare F100s ready to use just like that?
The reasons why we have seen a slow decline in pax number is that,
1. They have gone from 5 to 3 flights a day
2. They have messed the timings around and
3. They have reduced the size of the aircraft.
Each time this has happened they have seen a drop in pax numbers.
Agreed there are other factors but these are the main ones.
Exactly. I did nine years in SAS in sales and marketing after BMA, and I saw this pattern repeated time and time again. Don't ask me how it works, but file under "buyer behaviour".
Oh, and..
I suspect the huge decline in industry in the north east over the last 10+ years has more than a little to do with the decline in passenger numbers on the route.
?! What "huge decline in industry" would this be? Drop me a reply, and I'll check back here after I've taken the whippet for a walk down by the closed pit. :-)
I've lived here for over 25 years, and have never seen the area so prosperous.
1. They have gone from 5 to 3 flights a day
2. They have messed the timings around and
3. They have reduced the size of the aircraft.
Each time this has happened they have seen a drop in pax numbers.
Agreed there are other factors but these are the main ones.
Exactly. I did nine years in SAS in sales and marketing after BMA, and I saw this pattern repeated time and time again. Don't ask me how it works, but file under "buyer behaviour".
Oh, and..
I suspect the huge decline in industry in the north east over the last 10+ years has more than a little to do with the decline in passenger numbers on the route.
?! What "huge decline in industry" would this be? Drop me a reply, and I'll check back here after I've taken the whippet for a walk down by the closed pit. :-)
I've lived here for over 25 years, and have never seen the area so prosperous.
Last edited by Midland 331; 19th Feb 2009 at 18:55.
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Terrible news.
It sounds like MME management are desparately clinging on to the hope that BD will be back. Time to start looking for new links to the Capital, I think. They should be knocking the following doors NOW:
1) Aer Lingus - LGW (since they're just opening a base there...)
2) FlyBe - LGW
3) VLM - LCY
4) BA Cityflyer - LCY (worth a talk, at least...)
5) Eastern - LCY
3 per day to LGW with EI or BE might just work, provided the times are not as screwed up as what BD killed the route with. Maybe the A320 of EI is a bit too big given that the interline opportunities would not be as good at LGW as they were at LHR, but it is a nice (if a little deparate) thought.
It sounds like MME management are desparately clinging on to the hope that BD will be back. Time to start looking for new links to the Capital, I think. They should be knocking the following doors NOW:
1) Aer Lingus - LGW (since they're just opening a base there...)
2) FlyBe - LGW
3) VLM - LCY
4) BA Cityflyer - LCY (worth a talk, at least...)
5) Eastern - LCY
3 per day to LGW with EI or BE might just work, provided the times are not as screwed up as what BD killed the route with. Maybe the A320 of EI is a bit too big given that the interline opportunities would not be as good at LGW as they were at LHR, but it is a nice (if a little deparate) thought.
And not much interlining at LCY...
I like BE's business/leisure approach, and could see them doing at least three rotations a day to LGW. The Q400 is fairly punter-friendly. The key obstacle is getting them to try it. It ain't an F27.
I like BE's business/leisure approach, and could see them doing at least three rotations a day to LGW. The Q400 is fairly punter-friendly. The key obstacle is getting them to try it. It ain't an F27.
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New London link
I hadn't thought of VLM as they obviously fly a sensible sized plane and don't have a presence in the North East/Yorkshire (which I still think will be a stumbling block to any flyBE deal).
However, they did pull LPL-LCY so they ay have had their fingers burnt in the UK regions.
However, they did pull LPL-LCY so they ay have had their fingers burnt in the UK regions.
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It's got to be Gatwick, LCY not going to happen in a million years.
An operator would have to be based, or be prepared to base at LGW or MME.
If Flybe have not got a LGW base (i'm not sure?), I think that rules them out (I think the economy will deter them from opening any new bases on untried routes at this moment in time).
That leaves (in my opinion) as EZE with a MME based aircraft as the only realistic option. They have shown in the past (Bristol) that they would be prepared to give it a go (albeit in better economical times).
I don't think VLM, BA CityFlyer or EI will be tempted.
An operator would have to be based, or be prepared to base at LGW or MME.
If Flybe have not got a LGW base (i'm not sure?), I think that rules them out (I think the economy will deter them from opening any new bases on untried routes at this moment in time).
That leaves (in my opinion) as EZE with a MME based aircraft as the only realistic option. They have shown in the past (Bristol) that they would be prepared to give it a go (albeit in better economical times).
I don't think VLM, BA CityFlyer or EI will be tempted.
Last edited by CentreFix25; 19th Feb 2009 at 20:20.
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I'd say both DTVA and bmi were to blame for the declining passenger numbers. The first signs of trouble came soon after Teesside became Durham Tees Valley, this was followed by bmi removing business class off nearly all domestic routes - definitely not a wise move when most passengers are business pax!! bmibaby's pull-out was the biggest factor, local people didn't seem to realise bmi and bmibaby are different airlines under common ownership, therefore when baby went, people thought Heathrow had gone with them. Finally, as has been said, the timings were atrocious, and that killed off any hope of keeping the route.
As for any potential Flybe service attracting leisure pax as opposed to business pax, would this be a bad thing?? As has been dicussed already on this thread recently, it's the leisure pax that bring the money into the airport by using the various vending machines, games arcades, pub etc.
I can't really see a bright side as such to all this, but at least there's no reason to suspect that any of our remaining passenger services are in any danger at this moment in time.
Make no mistake though - Durham Tees Valley Airport is now on life support.
As for any potential Flybe service attracting leisure pax as opposed to business pax, would this be a bad thing?? As has been dicussed already on this thread recently, it's the leisure pax that bring the money into the airport by using the various vending machines, games arcades, pub etc.
I can't really see a bright side as such to all this, but at least there's no reason to suspect that any of our remaining passenger services are in any danger at this moment in time.
Make no mistake though - Durham Tees Valley Airport is now on life support.