DURHAM TEES VALLEY AIRPORT - 4
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Highwideandugly
Well lets hope it is the incompetent individuals as oposed to the DTV itself.
Problem is that this is unlikely as these
individuals may actually have qualifications that lend themselves more suitable in running a development company than an airport, something I'm sure Peel have not missed.
DTVAirport
Similar size.. based upon what Revenue, overheads, pax no.'s.....?
There will be many casualties along the way...
Problem is that this is unlikely as these
individuals may actually have qualifications that lend themselves more suitable in running a development company than an airport, something I'm sure Peel have not missed.DTVAirport
I believe we're still busier than some similar sized airports such as Humberside, and they've survived perfectly fine for God knows how long?
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Not disloyal.....just realistic
It grieves me to say this but it is as fast to travel from my home to central London by rail than by air. Taking into account the check in times and the ritualistic undressing at security and then the scrum at Heathrow baggage claim and the trek to the Heathrow Express.
Travelling first class on the railways is the same price with the added attraction of a (admittedly overpriced ) breakfast and if a leisure break a bottle of wine arriving in the world capital city at noon.
mea culpa mea culpa mea maxima culpa........Life changes.
Travelling first class on the railways is the same price with the added attraction of a (admittedly overpriced ) breakfast and if a leisure break a bottle of wine arriving in the world capital city at noon.
mea culpa mea culpa mea maxima culpa........Life changes.
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It grieves me to say this but it is as fast to travel from my home to central London by rail than by air
Out of interest, what is/was the rough breakdown between pax ending their journey in London and those who used it for onward connections?
Whilst it is very sad news for MME, I think it is obvious that BD think they can make more money by using the slots to offer flights to other destinations. Not to mention that LH now have a big say and want rid of 'dead wood' to get what is essentially now a subsidiary of theirs into some form of profitability. Unless money is being made, no route is safe from the chop no matter how long it has operated. Sadly there is no room for nostalgia in the airline industry these days.
Passengers give their views on cuts
THE Northern Echo asked passengers preparing to board yesterday’s (Friday)1.45pm flight to Heathrow what they thought of bmi’s decision.
- Ashley Fisher, 16, from London, said: “I came up to see my family. It is quicker, easier and cheaper. I suppose my mum will have to drive me in the future.”
- Simon Taft, 20, of Oxford, is a student at Durham University. He said: “I use the service about twice a month because it is quicker and cheaperthan the train. I will probably have to drive up without the service, but that will cost more.”
- Tim Raw, 64, of Barnard Castle, was using the service to connect to an international flight from Heathrow. He said: “It is ridiculous. To go by train from Darlington would have cost me £200 in advance. This cost about £80.”
- Brian Drummond, of Redcar, was at the airport to see off his son, Ross, 15, whose mother lives near Aldershot. He said: “Ross uses this service up to six times a year and has been doing so for about seven years. It is close to home for us and there is the security aspect to it as well. He will have to use the train or bus now instead, although that is not ideal.”
- Lawson Ramsay, of Stirling, in Scotland, was in the region on business. He said: “I am on my way from a meeting in the North-East to one in Jordan. If this service was not on, I would have to cancel my meeting
Join Date: May 2006
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I have to say that comparing the train to flying is like comparing apples with pears if people are not looking at the final destination of the pax from MME. But If your final destination is central london, you can compare and then fine the train is probably quicker - and only sometimes cheaper, but if your connecting to a flight at heathrow (even if your not through checked to your final destination) then am sorry the train isnt viable. You arrive at Kings Cross and you have to get yourself to Paddington which means travelling from North Central London to West Central London and that takes on the tube (with all your luggage) around 45 minutes (ive done it often so i do know!) and then you have to go on either the heathrow express (which costs £24 return i think) or the heathrow connect (which costs less but takes a lot longer) or you can stand (most of the time) on the tube from Kings Cross to Heathrow which must easily take the best part of an hour and is not pleasant.
Put simply if your intended destination is anywhere outside of Central London then the train is not easy - i live 25 mins west of central london and come up to Middlesbrough a fair amount during the year and 99% of the time flying up is quicker, cheaper - a lot cheaper sometimes, nicer, less hassle than by rail or by road - also everyone gets a seat on the plane which you dont by rail always!!
If an MME to LGW was started (again and i did use it a few times) - i would prefer to drive the hour to LGW, have a stressless drink in the bar and then get on a plane than for me personally travelling up to 4 hrs + on three trains and a tube to get to Middlesbrough or by driving for 4 hours each way (on a good run) for a short weekend up in Middlesbrough.
Re BMI - i think its a sad day after 40 years its come to an end - the economic climate has not helped, improvement on the railways and more people owning cars has been a factor, govt and BAA decisions have not helped but mainly BMI have killed this route by chopping and changing the times and reducing the aircraft size down to the point where people i presume cannot get on the flight on some occasions (ive travelled on the Embraers a few times since their introduction and they have nearly always been full). Ive said it before but at one stage MME-LHR was BMI's most profitable route and now its come to an end its about the future - the demand for a London route i do believe is there but by whom and into which airport remains to be seen, i agree that on a two runway LHR with only BA and BMI as domestic operators and with a packed one runway LCY with high landing charges - we can only expect something from Stansted, Luton or Gatwick.
Put simply if your intended destination is anywhere outside of Central London then the train is not easy - i live 25 mins west of central london and come up to Middlesbrough a fair amount during the year and 99% of the time flying up is quicker, cheaper - a lot cheaper sometimes, nicer, less hassle than by rail or by road - also everyone gets a seat on the plane which you dont by rail always!!
If an MME to LGW was started (again and i did use it a few times) - i would prefer to drive the hour to LGW, have a stressless drink in the bar and then get on a plane than for me personally travelling up to 4 hrs + on three trains and a tube to get to Middlesbrough or by driving for 4 hours each way (on a good run) for a short weekend up in Middlesbrough.
Re BMI - i think its a sad day after 40 years its come to an end - the economic climate has not helped, improvement on the railways and more people owning cars has been a factor, govt and BAA decisions have not helped but mainly BMI have killed this route by chopping and changing the times and reducing the aircraft size down to the point where people i presume cannot get on the flight on some occasions (ive travelled on the Embraers a few times since their introduction and they have nearly always been full). Ive said it before but at one stage MME-LHR was BMI's most profitable route and now its come to an end its about the future - the demand for a London route i do believe is there but by whom and into which airport remains to be seen, i agree that on a two runway LHR with only BA and BMI as domestic operators and with a packed one runway LCY with high landing charges - we can only expect something from Stansted, Luton or Gatwick.
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London
UKlad007
Seems remarkably like I said a few posts earlier apart from the flying to London bit.
London = train
Onward = any eurohub.
Marketed correctly KLM could be a big winner here. Market trends may encourage another carrier to consdier a route to its hub.
The important thing is to keep the connection pax flying from here. If the airport has an advertising budget it should be plugging the euro connection.
Centre cities
Seems remarkably like I said a few posts earlier apart from the flying to London bit.
London = train
Onward = any eurohub.
Marketed correctly KLM could be a big winner here. Market trends may encourage another carrier to consdier a route to its hub.
The important thing is to keep the connection pax flying from here. If the airport has an advertising budget it should be plugging the euro connection.
Centre cities
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Top journalism from the Northern Echo, asking people getting on an aircraft if they'll miss the aircraft when it's not there. I wonder how many other people getting on weren't interviewed, not many I'd guess or they wouldn't be binning it.
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Travelling from the North East to central London by air rather than train does not make economic or environmental sense. The train is at least as fast, more frequent and usually more reliable. Also there are two options from Teeside. Book well in advance and off-peak with National Express and it's relatively cheep. Turn up on the day with Grand Central and it does not cost you an arm and leg. London air services will only make sense if there are enough transit passengers.
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LHR route loss
There are a lot of pro's & con's involved here (many of which have already been covered in some detail) but I think it really will always depend where you are beginning & ending your journey certainly within c.200-250 miles of London. If it is more convenient (as in my case living less than half-an-hour from LHR) then it will be my first choice to fly BUT if my destination elsewhere in England is not really near a direct airport connection then other means inevitably have to be considered.
In the the Durham student example above, I am surprised in his choice as he could quite easily take the train direct to Oxford & his journey time would be just over 4 hours. Assuming (as he's a student!) he's using public transport connections at both ends of his journey then unfortunately going via LHR isn't any quicker. In fact I would estimate his total journey time at around 5 hours (& that's on a good day on the M25 using the coach connection!).
Don't get me wrong I would like to support as wide a choice of destinations as possible out of LHR (after all it's in my interest!). Unless you really need to connect to another flight via LHR in which case NCL at c.50 miles up the road from MME is really the only way to do this then I'm afraid it's trains or cars from about a month's time!
In the the Durham student example above, I am surprised in his choice as he could quite easily take the train direct to Oxford & his journey time would be just over 4 hours. Assuming (as he's a student!) he's using public transport connections at both ends of his journey then unfortunately going via LHR isn't any quicker. In fact I would estimate his total journey time at around 5 hours (& that's on a good day on the M25 using the coach connection!).
Don't get me wrong I would like to support as wide a choice of destinations as possible out of LHR (after all it's in my interest!). Unless you really need to connect to another flight via LHR in which case NCL at c.50 miles up the road from MME is really the only way to do this then I'm afraid it's trains or cars from about a month's time!
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MME-LHR route
A sad development for MME but it has to be said it has been expected by many who have an interest over the last few years as bmi move away from being the focused UK domestic airline that they once were. However, market forces and the economics of it all dictate that they have to use the slots for the most economic gain.
I simply can't see any future for a LHR route, yes perhaps when LHR gets runway 3? and there is extra capacity but the trouble with this is that once its gone, its gone. The passenger will form other habits, the London bound traveller will take the train and the interline passenger will go to NCL or use AMS a hub. Like in the case of Inverness, Jersey, IOM, East Midlands, Liverpool and Birmingham once they are gone they are gone forever. Jersey is the prime example it was relaunched by bmi and is already to be axed. Any interuption in service spells doom. I hope Shannon will prove to be an exception!
Alas, bmi, when i first started using British Midland in the mid-late 1980s from Dublin and Belfast to LHR it was second to none. However, as far as I am concerned now it is like Woolworths, trying to be all things to all people and at the same time nothing to anyone.
I think the bmi brand will vanish in the coming year or 2 and we will be solely reliant on BA for LHR domestics.
I simply can't see any future for a LHR route, yes perhaps when LHR gets runway 3? and there is extra capacity but the trouble with this is that once its gone, its gone. The passenger will form other habits, the London bound traveller will take the train and the interline passenger will go to NCL or use AMS a hub. Like in the case of Inverness, Jersey, IOM, East Midlands, Liverpool and Birmingham once they are gone they are gone forever. Jersey is the prime example it was relaunched by bmi and is already to be axed. Any interuption in service spells doom. I hope Shannon will prove to be an exception!
Alas, bmi, when i first started using British Midland in the mid-late 1980s from Dublin and Belfast to LHR it was second to none. However, as far as I am concerned now it is like Woolworths, trying to be all things to all people and at the same time nothing to anyone.
I think the bmi brand will vanish in the coming year or 2 and we will be solely reliant on BA for LHR domestics.
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Assuming that no other airline steps into the MME-LHR route which i think is never going to happen until R3 at least.
but what other airlines could anyone see stepping into MME-LON
which airlines and which London airports ? and using what equipment?
but what other airlines could anyone see stepping into MME-LON
which airlines and which London airports ? and using what equipment?
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what other airlines could anyone see stepping into MME-LON
which airlines and which London airports ? and using what equipment?
While losing the link to LHR is not great..... this means potentially a lot more pax wanting to fly to places from NCL, and therefore gives airlines a greater reason to increase frequency / consider new routes to and from NCL.
Possible that in 18 months time, some part of Lufty opens a link from NCL to a Star hub ?
Possible that in 18 months time, some part of Lufty opens a link from NCL to a Star hub ?
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Andrewmcharlton
This thread is becoming a joke, principally because there really is nothing further to say that hasnot already been said (or in respect of the sad DTV management, prepared to say!).
Indeed a few memories:- The Northern Echo Journo asking the pax/turkeys if they are in support of Xmas. Then there were those with "green tendancies" crashing onto the site to make a case against UK domestic air travel,
As Andrew said guys time to move on.... unless of course you know something relevant that you want to share with us, but please note this is not a forum to debate any improvements in rail service pending introduction of the new A1 "Tornado" .
Move on. It's quicker by train......
This thread is becoming a joke, principally because there really is nothing further to say that hasnot already been said (or in respect of the sad DTV management, prepared to say!). Indeed a few memories:- The Northern Echo Journo asking the pax/turkeys if they are in support of Xmas. Then there were those with "green tendancies" crashing onto the site to make a case against UK domestic air travel,
Travelling from the North East to central London by air rather than train does not make economic or environmental sense.
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It looks like Eastern are looking seriously at a London Stansted route, don't know anything about types/frequencies but Brussels was profitable for them (despite them axing it) and I would imagine Stansted would be more successful than Brussels.
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Eastern are looking seriously at a London Stansted route
If BRU was profitable why was it axed?
Me thinks you are clutching at straws.
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I guess the quoted interviews have demonstrated nicely what the problem of the route was - almost everybody said the the train / bus / own car was more expensive than the flight. So apparently the flights were extremely low yielding for bmi. And as all those who pointed out the price advantage of the flight probably would not have flown if the flights were better yielding - i.e.: more expensive - it was pretty inevitable that the route faced the axe.
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Originally Posted by andrewmcharlton
Where is your information for this?
If BRU was profitable why was it axed?
Me thinks you are clutching at straws.
If BRU was profitable why was it axed?
Me thinks you are clutching at straws.
Somewhere, possibly within PPRuNe or elsewhere, Eastern themselves are quoted as saying BRU was profitable, the reason they pulled it was something to do with the amount of time the aircraft spent on the ground iirc.