CORK - 5

[JDB1052]

Why are Ryanair showing two of their five daily services on the Dublin route for the winter at the same time on Monday to Thursday (1820) and just 20 minutes separating them on Friday (1800 and 1820)? Are they planning on cutting to four or is it just a blip while they sort out more important routes?

[hafez]

Cork is to get covered walkways at last! Work begins in October/November with completion expected towards the end of the year. Now all we need is an extra airbridge or two and a runway extension!

[ryan2000]

Whatever about the airbridges there's no chance of a runway extension unless someone can come up with a good reason for one. Several transatlantic carriers including EI have deemed 17/35 to be adequate for East Coast Operations and have said that Commercial realities rather than the runway will be the deciding factor.

[eick320]

EI pulling off ork - waw

Heard confirmation today that EI are pulling off the ork/waw route come Feb. The aircraft will operate to fao on 2 days and will also add an additional agp rotation to the winter timetable. While this will come as a surprise to some i think the re-introduction of fao so early in the year is a bad choice, who besides the golfers would wish to travel to fao in the middle of Feb.

[Shamrock350]

Well if the recent rumours that Aer Lingus wants to "pull out of Shannon as quickly as possible" are true they may leave SNN altogether and take a much closer look at Cork.

The rumour was from staff who "overheard" management talking about leaving SNN while on a flight.

[840]

With a limited supply of A330s, Cork will also have to worry about whether the aircraft can be more profitably deployed in Dublin.

Also, EI require runway upgrades (improvements as opposed to lengthening) before they'll start a regular A330 service into Cork. You'd hope that if they were offering a service the business case for the upgrades would make itself, but it would still mean a bit of pre-planning.

[ryan2000]

Can't understand why Aerlingus would go to Faro in February. They operated to Faro last winter and pulled the flights early in January due to poor loads/yields. Aerlingus has repeatedly said that the runway at Cork is not an issue as far as ORK-JFK is concerned.
It was on their list of potential new routes in 2004 according to the then management.
However talk is cheap and the reality is now dawning in Cork that open skies will not in itself bring transatlantic services to the airport.

[Tom the Tenor]

Might be a better idea than Faro in February, I suppose, to go to Boston. Putting in the centre tank and then taking out seats as well - hardly the best use of the resource though? Just too much outlay in euros.

Might have been an idea to quit Warsaw around middle of January aftering the Polish workers return back to Cork and then, maybe, try Geneva for the skiing enthusiasts etc even if it was just until the end of the ski season at Easter?

[840]

To an extent I'd agree with you about the 320 being too big for the Cork market, although it's more a problem for route establishment. I think you underestimate its performance on current routes. Amsterdam and Paris do quite well with it even through the winter. You'll struggle to find a single flight this winter that goes to Amsterdam with a load less than 120 (70%). Almost all sun routes (from all airports) are loss-makers through the winter months.

Where Aer Lingus sometimes struggle in Cork is with yield. Of their routes in Cork, only LHR and AMS attract significant numbers of business travellers.

Like I said, smaller aircraft would be nice if trying to establish new routes. Milan and Madrid might not have failed in an aircraft half the size of the A320. It would also allow more business friendly timings on routes like Manchester and Birmingham.

As regards your A320 proposal, a few issues:
- ETOPS certification - AFAIR only the A319 has ETOPS certification.
- The aircraft would end up with a different configuration from other EI 320s, reducing the benefits from a common fleet.
- The route would be dependent on a single aircraft, meaning big problems if technical problems arose.

[ryan2000]

If the 320/1 is a serious runner they'd also put it on SNN-JFK and SNN-BOS. Problem is the seat mile costs would be a lot higher. Let's not forget that 319's and 737-700's etc are only used on transatlantic routes that have high levels of business traffic.

It's amazing that Aerlingus don't throw a few 1 cent fares on sale. At least it would stimulate the budget end of the market. They seem to still prefer to fly half empty as long as the yield holds up.

[MarkD]

840 - A319-A321 types have certification for ETOPS180, FAA and EASA. I'm sure that as usual it would depend on aircraft fit and maintenance record as to whether an individual frame is ETOPS capable though.

[Rallye EI-BFP]

So far Ryanair have given up Shannon to Lubeck, Skavasta, Rome, Bournemouth, Lodz and now Madrid. Loads was generally never an issue- with the exception of the first three. Its fares that are the problem.

In fact, I have noticed as of late they seem to put "high" fares on the services that do well (Bucket and spade flights, and BVA occasionally). Hence these perform best. Im quite surprised NRN is still running. But suprisingly loads are very good.


I think Ryanair could do ALOT worse than Shannon.

[johnrizzo2000]

I'm surprised to read people think SXF will be dropped. When I worked it, the flight was doing well, and the ORK crew had said it was usaully quite full. That said, some 319's would be handy for ORK routes like MAD and MXP/LIN, and even on a few routes ex DUB!

[ADC2604]

I know Air Wales use to operate a Cork to Exeter service - is there any possibility on another airline operating this in the future - Can't remember what the load factors use to be like

[840]

Actually, with Newquay and Southampton shutting down for the winter, there won't be any service to any of the five airports along the south coast of England. Even in the days when Cork only had five or six routes, Plymouth was one of the ones available.

Most likely we'll just see Southampton and Newquay back for the summer again, but it would be good to get a year round service. I would have thought Flybe were the only realistic possibility. I think I'm correct in saying Air Southwest have bo presence in Exeter and Aer Arann seem to have been dropping the 3/4 times a week routes to the UK in favour of those where they can offer a daily service. Still if Flybe are considering operating from Norwich to Cork, Exeter to Cork can't be out of the question.

[Tom the Tenor]

If FlyBe had any Dash 8-300s left I am sure it would be no problem for them and would work out okay.

The Flyglobespan thread is a good read at the moment with the review of their routes over the last year or so. GLA-BOS is down to 4 a week for September and October and three flights are going via Knock with the 737-700. If Boston can work ex Knock/GLA it would work ex Cork, just got to - no brainer. Sure, there are seats blocked off but the new route incentives may be able to cover that loss? Sure would be worth trying.

Delta are getting ten 737-700s! We can hope. Next best thing would be a connection at either Budapest or Amman with DL to JFK!

[ryan2000]

Shannon Slush fund

Reports on yesterday's papers indicate that the Govt. is about to announce a multi million euro fund to allow Shannon subsidise transatlantic carriers. If this slush fund becomes available to Shannon, Knock and Cork can forget transatlantic services for the forseeable future as it will be impossible to compete.

[en2r]

Reports on yesterday's papers indicate that the Govt. is about to announce a multi million euro fund to allow Shannon subsidise transatlantic carriers. If this slush fund becomes available to Shannon, Knock and Cork can forget transatlantic services for the forseeable future as it will be impossible to compete.

Just when I thought the days of Shannon being the darling of the Government were over there is talk of them doing something like this. There is no way the EU Competition Authority will let the Government subsidise flights from Shannon. Perhaps they might allow them subsidise flights from all regional Irish airports to the US but there is no way they would allow them to subsidise flights to just one airport. If I were the Chairman of the Cork Airport Authority I'd have Neelie Kroes (the EU Competition Commissioner) on speedial just in case.

[Tom the Tenor]

Hmm. The real question is if the Cork Airport Authority are genuinely all that interested in having flights to North America in the first place?

[en2r]

The winter has started up at the airport with a morning of diversions due to fog. As far as I know Liverpool, Stansted and Manchester all diverted. Does anyone know were there any other diversions? Lets hope this isn't a sign of things to come for the winter. When will they sense and install Cat 3?