CORK - 5

[Tom the Tenor]

Well, let us hope that Cork Airport's ILS CATII status may be resumed as quickly as possible and let us hope a Calibrator may be called in too without delay to check it out and to give it the all clear. The earlier talk of having to wait until September has been waffle and has sounded liked penny pinching whether intentional or not and tell that to last Friday's passengers whom were so shabbily inconvenienced to see what they might say about that one. Wear your hard hat, I suggest!

What is of even more concern to me about this dreadful debacle is the harm to the long term reputation of Cork Airport. This is a matter for both the Irish Aviation Authority and the Dublin Airport Authority to address in the days ahead. What are both Authorities going to do for Cork Airport in order to reassure passengers and potential passengers whose experience of the Cork facility may now be tarnished after the events of last Friday.

Perhaps like with Sean Quinn and Anglo Irish the IAA and maybe the DAA took a gamble on the timing of Cork's ILS downtime - they were caught out with the weather at Cork and they lost on the gamble?

The DAA has been to my mind too quiet to date on this matter. Why? Well, one reason for that is for every diversion from Cork to either Dublin or to the airport in the Midwest the DAA have still collected on the landing fees etc so at a corporate level they have not lost out at all and if in the future any potential Cork passengers chose instead the drive up along to M8 to connect with flights from Dublin the DAA still wins.

So, this is what Cork has to face up to now. Be it the IAA, the DAA, both, or both combined, an awful lot of making up has to be shown now towards Cork. My suggestion would be for the purse strings to be loosened up rather kindly and in the first instance for funds to be set aside for a locally focused marketing drive to reassure Cork Airport passengers and for encouraging the ongoing use of the facility and secondly, another sum for a powerful marketing drive to go out and get some much needed new business for Cork Airport.

The IAA might like to consider doing everything in it's considerable power to facilitate any possible new runway extension for Cork as well if that was ever to come to pass!

And I have not even mentioned North America!

[PPRuNeUser0176]

The DAA has been to my mind too quiet to date on this matter. Why? Well, one reason for that is for every diversion from Cork to either Dublin or to the airport in the Midwest the DAA have still collected on the landing fees etc so at a corporate level they have not lost out at all and if in the future any potential Cork passengers chose instead the drive up along to M8 to connect with flights from Dublin the DAA still wins.

No disrespect Tom where do you expect them to divert, lets see WAT can handle A320 and B738... and sure NOC airport will reopen to take diversions. KIR got a few regional from ORK on Friday. Mabye Belfast and Derry would be good places to divert. I am not defending the DAA but there wasn't many options or mabye they could of diverted further afeild as not to pay DAA diversion charges.

[Tom the Tenor]

No disrepect taken but you have actually proved my point, have you not? The DAA did not lose last Friday apart from the few Aer Aranns that flew to Kerry but Cork Airport did, big time.

You should have seen how busy the front of terminal was at Cork before it all went so crazy on Friday afternoon and all those thousands of people coming and going so inconvenienced.

It was really awful.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Ok ture you have a good point.

[Cabincrewifly]

Have Ryanair increased LGW? Just noticed today they've two flights FR9854 at 07.35 and the usual FR9852 is at 13.05

[Jack1985]

The earlier talk of having to wait until September has been waffle

And what brings you to the above statement that it was ''waffle''? Maintenance had been scheduled for the first weekend in September before the ILS had to be taken out of service because of the yet to be declared fault (still believe it was the G/S). What did you expect the IAA to say? They didnt no the issue until yesterday and had nothing to go on other then maintance which was coming up and AT LEAST had a date when it could be rectified if the worst came to the worst.

the DAA have still collected on the landing fees etc

Tom the view your trying to make with the above statement is total bull. Diversion airports are decided by the flight deck with guidance from both the airlines operations division and ATC. The only real time airlines are refused permission to divert to their chosen diversion airport of which they select two is when they are full and can not accept anymore traffic. An example for you.. an Aer Lingus flight flying from Cork to London Heathrow has two chosen diversion points of Gatwick and Birmingham. Notice how Aer Lingus fly's to both these airports and does not have to worry about issuing the company card for refueling and handling at an airport were the carrier does not fly. Diversion Airports are decided on location (mainly), ease of operation (if the carrier flies there or not) and/or Runway length according to the demand of the aircraft. The majority of flights diverted to both Dublin and Shannon - Both Aer Lingus and Ryanair have bases there and logistically its not a hassle for them cost wise (Handling) excluding organizing transport for affected pax. Aer Lingus Regional diverted to Kerry and had the choice of Waterford as well they have aircraft stationed at those airports and also it's not a logistical nightmare to them in terms of refueling and ground costs which are much higher when the handler is unnotified of the arrival (the diversion).

Regardless Tom you seem to taking conspiracy theories with the DAA and now the IAA?? to a hole new level, build bridges move on...

Have Ryanair increased LGW? Just noticed today they've two flights FR9854 at 07.35 and the usual FR9852 is at 13.05

Extra flights for the peak month of travel between Cork and London.

[Tom the Tenor]

Well, it is late Wednesday evening now in Cork and what sign has there been of a Calibrator Aircraft at Cork all week working on the ILS?

None.

Goes to show how little a priority it is to have the CATII ILS restored at Cork.

Anyway, there is less than two weeks of the busier part of the summer schedule left at Cork.

There will much relief all around for many when that day comes - it cannot come fast enough for some.

What a place.

[ryan2000]

I thought they said that they hoped to have CAT 2 restored by this weekend. Not looking likely now. We'll see what happens if the weather disimproves on Thursday night and Friday as is forecast.

[Jack1985]

Well, it is late Wednesday evening now in Cork and what sign has there been of a Calibrator Aircraft at Cork all week working on the ILS?

None.

Goes to show how little a priority it is to have the CATII ILS restored at Cork.

Anyway, there is less than two weeks of the busier part of the summer schedule left at Cork.

There will much relief all around for many when that day comes - it cannot come fast enough for some.

What a place.

Can you tell me who told you it would be happening this week Tom? Because it was never said and it was never happening this week. It will happen in early September I mean is it that hard to understand?

Not much relief to be honest Tom, some of us will be hoping we keep our jobs when the review finishes. You don't have to worry about that, so the relief you are looking forward to is not shared by anyone in the Airport - Yes what a place, a place many of us hope to stay.

[ryan2000]

Local media reports quoted the IAA as saying they hoped the ILS would be fully restored later this week. I' m not sure what's so significant about September. What can be done next month that couldn't be done this month?

I would also question the wisdom of decommissioning the CAT 2 during the Summer months in future. The low cloud that brings the RVR below CAT 1 is as likely to arrive in August as in February. At least if disruption occurs in the Winter it can be more easily managed by airlines, bus companies etc.

[Jack1985]

Local media reports quoted the IAA as saying they hoped the ILS would be fully restored later this week. I' m not sure what's so significant about September. What can be done next month that couldn't be done this month?

Post the links they're Ryan? I've said multiple times and it's continually being ignored at this stage - The contractor who will be testing the ILS will be using its own aircraft to calibrate the system. It has been scheduled since late June to be carried out in early September. The failure that occurred in early August has had no effect on this and the ILS will not be fully calibrated until early September as was planned - This is routine and is done as standard op to make sure there are no deficiencies in the system. The G/S failed so the calibration currently in use on 17 has to be reset, that cant be done until a full update which is why the IAA are waiting until early September.

I would also question the wisdom of decommissioning the CAT 2 during the Summer months in future. The low cloud that brings the RVR below CAT 1 is as likely to arrive in August as in February. At least if disruption occurs in the Winter it can be more easily managed by airlines, bus companies etc.

It was decommissioned after the failure!? The testing in early September will last about 4hrs. There's no excuse for any disruption and the last bit you just said there would be laughed at by airlines, when yields are lower in winter anyway and any disruption will make they affected flight(s) loss making.

[ryan2000]

Cost of surface transport, hotels etc are also lower in Winter and it's easier to rebook passengers on alternative flights. What ever about laughing at my posts, I don't think airline managers will be laughing when they receive invoices resulting from the events of last Friday.

Just wondering if CAT 2 or CAT 3 would be left unserviceable for weeks if it failed at Heathrow, Charles De Gaulle or Schiphol. If it's technically impossible to restore it then the IAA are blameless and I'll gladly defend them.

[francis omahony]

just heard ATC tell aircraft that CAT II will be restored this afternoon believe it when I see it

[ryan2000]

The situation seems to change by the hour. No calibrator aircraft has been here.

[Jack1985]

Cost of surface transport, hotels etc are also lower in Winter and it's easier to rebook passengers on alternative flights.

Marginally cheaper for hotels maybe, any diversion last winter made flights loss making. In Feb '10 due to high winds most of the flights that day were diverted to Shannon - and most probably all on that day were loss making. Bus Transport is not any bit cheaper in the winter, the fact they get such little notice and charge premium rates is the reason why diversions are a complete disaster for airlines especially in winter.

Just wondering if CAT 2 or CAT 3 would be left unserviceable for weeks if it failed at Heathrow, Charles De Gaulle or Schiphol. If it's technically impossible to restore it then the IAA are blameless and I'll gladly defend them.

Have you ever heard of a situation where any part of the ILS equipment failed at LHR, CDG, AMS etc? No because those systems are monitored all day and have dedicated specialists on-hand as part of the airport's ground op's plus if any problems arise most probably all are fixed during the night - Cork is a regional airport and the cost of that kind of monitoring is non-economical. The IAA are blameless? It's a system error that they have been continually trying to fix. The main reason has to be the G/S but there's rumors the hole system failed, and didn't even go to alarm.

just heard ATC tell aircraft that CAT II will be restored this afternoon believe it when I see it

Can confirm the same, G/S was fixed overnight and will be allowed back into service later this evening (last I heard). This has been the driving factor in preventing landings in CAT II conditions. IAA have been allowed to re-introduce CAT II on 17 only because the full system will be fully re-calibrated in just over a week.

[Jack1985]

Quick update - experts from the manufacture of the ILS system who have been working alongside IAA technicians are testing the ILS system on aircraft after 5pm not known if the system will be allowed back into service after the tests however.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Irish Aviation Authority - Full ILS Operations Resume at Cork Airport Runway 17

[rallye parachute]

Ah come on! If it's back in operation, what are we going to moan about

[840]

The fact it's not CAT III ;-)

[Tom the Tenor]

CATIII is probably just too much to achieve for Cork from a technical point of view. My understanding is that CATII was just achievable for Cork and in low visibility conditions CATII has on the whole been sufficient for operations at Cork. This is one of the reasons why it has been so important for Cork to have the CATII ILS to 17 back up and working as it is generally fairly rare for the low visibility RVRs to go below the CATII minima - that has been my experience down the years.

Anyway, to the best of my knowledge there was no Calibrator working the ILS at Cork on Wednesday evening and if I am mistaken I will eat me hat!

Let us hope there is some movement tomorrow on the subject.

Cork Airport deserves to have a fully functioning ILS to runway 17/35 and that must also mean a fully functioning CATII landing system to runway 17 to be restored without delay. The IAA were quick to bring up the matter of safety in their recent statements - Cork Airport passengers deserve as much and cost should not have to be much of a factor. The IAA's haul of money every year must be very considerable and paying for the Cork ILS to be restored should be the very least they can do for Cork, Cork Airport and her passengers.

There is no excuse for a repeat of last Friday's debacle at Cork Airport anytime soon.