CARDIFF - 3

[UPS@EMA]

Originally Posted by CheekyVisual

with Ryanair expanding from 3 a/c to 10 a/c at EMA this year my money is on it going there.

Where did you hear that one?

I had the pleasure or should i say delight of actually trying Cardiff out last week with TOM and im impressed with the airport. Still want more services to EMA but it was a pleasant experience at CWL

Regards

Stu

[Smile!!!]

I havent heard of Ryanair basing 10 a/c at EMA next year either although they have announced a major expasion for this year. With also EZY strong at EMA, WW would be stupid to take them on under such a situation. The only real options for new bases are therfore MAN and CWL. With CWL having BE and TOM putting extra strain on them this year I think it quite right they should base an extra a/c at CWL. BE are going for them a Birmingham aswell and the baby needs to 'defend its turf!' (Me being kool there)

I had the pleasure or should i say delight of actually trying Cardiff out last week with TOM and im impressed with the airport. Still want more services to EMA but it was a pleasant experience at CWL

Well the airport has certinaley changed over the years, and is a hell of a lot better than it was, say in 2000 from a PAX point of view!

[CheekyVisual]

Heard 10 a/c at EMA from an EMA based Ryanair skipper. He said a year but he might have mean't eventually. He does like to "big up" the harpies to anyone who'll listen ! Still think Baby will try to defend EMA but I don't think they can win. Everyone I know says they hate flying with Ryanair but they still seem to fill their seats. CWL or BHX would present the best return on a/c 21 that's where the most potential is.

As for Air Wales and PIK. It was an ex Air Wales Captain that told me Air Wales ruined the route. Sorry if that caused offence I know it was not the fault of anyone working at the sharp end !

Just looked at the latest Fly Be plan and there is still no mention of extra CWL routes this year but GLA would be a strong bet for a further expansion.

[TwinAisle]

Air Wales ruined the route

Not true. The nature of the Air Wales and bmibaby marketing agreement was that baby told Air Wales where to fly, and when. Baby sold the seats, Wales delivered them - and did a great job of it too, for the record. AW had nothing to do with the timing of the route, PIK v GLA, fares or anything else.

TA

[nospeedrestriction9]

Originally Posted by TwinAisle

Not true. The nature of the Air Wales and bmibaby marketing agreement was that baby told Air Wales where to fly, and when. Baby sold the seats, Wales delivered them - and did a great job of it too, for the record. AW had nothing to do with the timing of the route, PIK v GLA, fares or anything else.

TA

Under the bmibaby marketing agreement Air Wales had no control over the bmibaby fares. Many people will remember that it was the decision of bmibaby to transfer the route from GLA to PIK before Air Wales took over the operation of the route.

bmibaby operates in a limited market at Cardiff, with lower demographics of the South Wales area and a lower overall propensity to fly I can't see bmibaby ever expanding to a large extent.

[a1234]

CWL has hardly got a small catchment area or the people are less keen to fly, when you see how many Welsh people are flying from BRS!

[xtypeman]

Baby PIK

AW took over the route from Baby who had changed the destination to PIK from GLA. If you had looked at the CAA ststs for the route the figures did not change and the numbers equated to a double daily ATR route figures that were held all the time AW operated. When Baby took the route back it was to GLA but the loads work out at less than a 737 load a day one rotation. There where lots of happy regulars using PIK who complained to AW when Baby a) took route back and b) changed dest to GLA. PIK has a station with 50% off rail fares to all of Scotland and only 20 minutes to Glasgow Queen Street at the wrong time of the day its longer by road from GLA to the city centre.

Any one heard of oneWales they have put in a bid for CWL-Valley with a metroliner?

Ps. CDFF going to SEN 15th SSEA expected mid Feb

[TwinAisle]

a lower overall propensity to fly

Ooooh, I love arguing this one!

The lower propensity to fly of the South Welsh is often thrown into the face of Cardiff's supporters. For the record, it is a horse manure statistic that shouldn't be used in this context.

Yes, on a straight calculation, the South Welsh DO have a lower propensity to fly - for the simple reason that, if you live west of Cardiff, you have a LONG trip to an airport, which makes your cheap weekend in Paris/Berlin etc etc a pain in the bum. Propensity to fly is a blunt weapon based in the main on ABILITY to fly - if someone lives in the southeast of England and can get just about anywhere in Europe from a convenient airport, then of course they will score more highly than someone who has to drive from, say, Llanelli to Bristol to get somewhere.

If Cardiff had the routes, then the PTF from South Wales would rise. PTF onbly has a real purpose if two populations with similar OPPORTUNITY to fly are compared.

TA

[xtypeman]

PTP

Twinaisle is correct do not forget you can get stats to say anything you want. Read the ROSCO report on Aviation in the UK as a whole not just in Wales. BRS is a large draw because of its routes yes CWL needs more routes but you have to attract the passengers. When AW did the ORK for Baby passengers where comming from as far as Birmingham as this was the best route for them. LPL did a pax survey on EZY flts and found that a large percentage 50% plus came from East Yorkshire bypassing LBA and MAN. If you look at the ROSCO the greatest PTP in 2000/2002 was in Scotland the lowest in Wales was the north followed by mid. Find the market the passengers want give a good service be fair with ticket price and keep the passengers using the airport. I know a lot of you want FlyBe to expand at CWL but be cautious you do not want eggs in one basket you need a variety of operators running sustainable routes. So CWL needs to attract passengers from a much larger catchment area than just South Wales. Transport links are vital to an airport i know the argument that BRS is dificulty to get to they have got the airlines and the routes that makes up for the ground connections. CWL could look at get Ariva Wales to start train services going to the Airport not just as a local feeder. Was there not a statment that FGW where going to start services to Rhoose. Direct services to West Wales, Mid Wales, Hereford and Gloucester with out a change of train would be a good start. Then maybe the airlines the railways coach operators could go the last mile and intergrate timetables (the holy grail of transport). It is possible just needs some thought. I reguarly commute throught SOU. I land and within 1 hour i am on a train direct to Cardiff. Before Christmas i landed at Shoreham(Brighton International) and again within an hour i was on a train to Cardiff. However my wife then has to drive for nearly two hours to pick me up. Gatwick, Manchester and Stansted have made the train work for them BRS cannot come on CWL a potential big market that would offset carbon as well.

[WOWBOY]

Any one heard of oneWales they have put in a bid for CWL-Valley with a metroliner?

Hi, Do you know of anyother operators that have placed a bid for the route?

WOWBOY

[mathers_wales_uk]

FlyBe

I have spoken to Flybe and they have told me that there will not be an aircraft based at Cardiff, and that there is no plans at the moment to add anymore routes. It has also been announced that Aviance will be the handling agents for them at CWL

Also the Contract for Thomsons is up for grabs with Aviance placing in a bid to handle them, decision to be made shortly.

[DanielP]

FYI....
The First Great Western service was going to be an extension of the Portsmouth-Cardiff route. It was in their franchise outline that an hourly extension to Barry and Rhoose should be costed- I think that WAG were going to fund it. The extension appeared in the draft December 06 timetable, and Rhoose / Barry were still listed (but no service) in the final draft. However, nothing turned up in the end.
I think that the biggest problem is that the route from Cardiff to Barry has a train every 15mins + regular freight, so there are capacilty issues.
Pity, because it would also make sense for Arriva to divert some Carmarthen trains via the airport to encourage West Walians to use CWL (as it is their nearest airport). Also if the airlines get the price right, people from the mid-wales / UK border may also be tempted.

At present, the service is hourly, the train going to Cardiff at 07 past the hour and Bridgend at 11 pth. Many people like to avoid Cardiff and go via Bridgend (this links to the London service whilst avoiding commuters!). Arriva wants to put the service to half hourly if funds / rolling stock permits.

I agree that the current service is not exactly the Gatwick Express, but it is a bit of a "chicken and egg" situation- if CWL had more flights (esp a loco), Arriva could justify upgrading the service. I have also made several trips to Manchester Airport in a similar "commuter buckets" with no decent lugage space, so I think the current arrangement is not unreasonable as it goes- no use diverting extra trains for ten pax per day!
Having said that, the exclusivity of the Gatwick Express is also currently under threat, because extra capacity is needed for commuters.
Daniel

[a1234]

I have spoken to Flybe and they have told me that there will not be an aircraft based at Cardiff, and that there is no plans at the moment to add anymore routes. It has also been announced that Aviance will be the handling agents for them at CWL

Well that's a real shame actually. I think many people were hoping that they would take on some routes like Paris or another domestic route such as Aberdeen, which both could work.

[mathers_wales_uk]

Yeah i also heard that they may extend it to the airport, which would be very good and.

I have also heard that they may build a new station near Llantrisant years to come with a Bus link to the airport, because if the InterCity were to run through roose it would increase the journy time considerably.


I am sure that when eastern came to Cardiff they advertised that they were going to start 3 routes which was the NCL, BRU AND THE Aberdeen. To be honest the Eastern didn't really attract pax on the BRU i think the most i seen on there were 5. And i have never seen a Cardiff to Aberdeen Flight.

You never know flybe may add more routes soon, since BMIBaby don't want to expand in the airport this summer.

For those people moaning about the CDG route to be picked up, there is a romour that Thomson may operate it's 737 there in S07.

Can't believe BMIBaby didn't want to add a fourth aircraft at CWL this year, even though were one of the most profitable out of their bases.

[CheekyVisual]

My understanding is that Baby would very much like to expand their base at CWL. It is where they make the most money. However, they just can not source anymore 733s or 735s. They can't get NGs without a considerable cost penalty (crew training etc..) even if there were any and the 319 would only be considered at the point of total fleet renewal some way off.

Having spoken to a couple of my fellow exciles who are hoping to return by way of baby it is now increasingly likely baby will put the one aircraft they can source into BHX for the battle with Fly Be. That is their priority. Beat Fly Be and secure the company's future. If they don't they may not be around to expand CWL anyway !

[pipertommy]

Strange why the airport website states FLYBE as opening a "base" at Cardiff.I would have be lead to believe an aircraft would have been based at Cardiff It is a shame what about Aberdeen(an old route),Paris,Brussels,Glasgow(only x1 daily soon),Newcastle(i know Eastern),German route,Nice ect

[caaardiff]

Also the Contract for Thomsons is up for grabs with Aviance placing in a bid to handle them, decision to be made shortly.

Thomson and Servisairs contract is one of the longest handling contract in the UK. Cant see them swapping over. The main reason Servisair may be coming back to the ramp was because Thomson were pushing for it after last years ramp problems.

As for FlyBe. Their definately holding back on something. Its either going to be back to BRS, or more expansion at CWL. They are keeping everything very quiet until the end of the month once the BA deal is complete. I wouldnt give up hope just yet. I heard a rumour they would have 3 or 4 a/c based within next few years. The market is there!

[cwl747]

Eh?

New to this so i guess id start by posting a rumour, that may not have any consistancy but its worth a look.

I found the following on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CWL

Future plans
The airport's management announced, on 29 March 2006, a £100m development strategy which will see the current terminal being extended, as well as upgrades to the main body of the building.
It is anticipated that the investment will attract up to 5m passengers by 2015 - an increase of 150% - according to the airport's published response to a UK Government White paper on the future of commercial aviation throughout the United Kingdom.
Rumour has it that BA will be starting a direct service with a boeing 777-200 aircraft with a daily flight to NEW YORK (JFK) and united airlines will be staring a service to washigton dulles using a 767-300 aircraft.
Further to that Ehiad Airlines are looking to open a base at the airport, further details to follow.

United and Ba? never heard of this before, what do you guys think?????

[mathers_wales_uk]

Originally Posted by caaardiff

Thomson and Servisairs contract is one of the longest handling contract in the UK. Cant see them swapping over. The main reason Servisair may be coming back to the ramp was because Thomson were pushing for it after last years ramp problems.

Mind i think Thomson don't understand that the majority of the staff are ex-servisair and i heard some of the complaints were regarding the staff. (Maybe the new project manager has got a few tricks up his sleeve).

If baby don't fight at Cardiff though they will loose that, theres a lot of flights being NON/OP over the next few weeks. Thomson are groing at Cardiff, and First Choice don't seem to want to bother after giving us the canadians last year and not basing any rep or engineer here.

Does anyone know when their going to start turning the whole of upstairs into departures? (no doubt the carnage will start in the middle of summer again).

[caaardiff]

Mind i think Thomson don't understand that the majority of the staff are ex-servisair and i heard some of the complaints were regarding the staff. (Maybe the new project manager has got a few tricks up his sleeve).

There been a lot of gripes with how Aviance have treated the ramp staff. Changes in rosters... supplying qualifed staff, workload etc.
But saying that, if servisair do take on the ramp, they'll have to take on a fair few new staff and have them trained up in time for the summer. That may go wrong as well unless they put some serious investment in!
As for First Choice. Eventually someone will have taken over them (MyTravel, Thomas Cook, Virgin too apparently)
First Choice are rumoured to have a A321 base during the summer...can anyone confirm this?
Its confirmed MyTravel are.
The way Thomson are going they will dominate the bucket and spade routes over baby, by looks of it, in the summer CWL will be their 3rd largest base next to LGW and MAN,.... and IF Flybe do expand at Cardiff...they will give Baby a run for their money on domestic.
As far as terminal extension goes, they need to finish off everything else first!
Heard the Exec Lounge is doing really well and possible further expansion to that is an option. How about somewhere for the rest of the pax?! A sniff of a delay and its standing room only im afraid!
Now the Staff canteen has gone, they should extend into the service yard..... and how about a small extra domestic arrivals hall by the new pier (by security lodge) to save all the heartache and farcical arguments with immigration and their prescious new hall!!!