CARDIFF - 3
Scourge of Bad Airline Management!
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Global Nomad
Age: 55
Posts: 1,094
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whilst Flower's assessment is pretty much in line with mine, the whole argument on this thread is the wrong way around.
It is largely not up to the airport to say which routes are going to be operated. That is a job for the airlines. The airport's role in this is to try and attract airlines according to a strategy.
The whole concept of "we need routes to X, Y and Z" is an interesting moot point, but means nothing from an airline perspective. What the airlines normally look for is a sensible catchmment and the chance of making a buck or three.
I say normally.
I don't think that flybe's decision to come to CWL is based on purely economic grounds. I noted what I think they are up to earlier. If I am even remotely right, then flybe's coming to Cardiff is extremely BAD news - it is akin to throwing a pike into your fishpond because the goldfish are being a bit boring, and need to be livened up a tad.
It is largely not up to the airport to say which routes are going to be operated. That is a job for the airlines. The airport's role in this is to try and attract airlines according to a strategy.
The whole concept of "we need routes to X, Y and Z" is an interesting moot point, but means nothing from an airline perspective. What the airlines normally look for is a sensible catchmment and the chance of making a buck or three.
I say normally.
I don't think that flybe's decision to come to CWL is based on purely economic grounds. I noted what I think they are up to earlier. If I am even remotely right, then flybe's coming to Cardiff is extremely BAD news - it is akin to throwing a pike into your fishpond because the goldfish are being a bit boring, and need to be livened up a tad.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: At Home
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Been thinking about this all week. The more I think about it the more I believe everyone who has any input at CWL needs a kick up the A*se.
The Airport Management are bad at managing almost everything they manage. Building work at the height of summer,etc.
Air Traffic promised good times when they got the SIDs & STARs (we think things are worse now than before). Constant levelling off in climb/descent vectoring, etc. Not necessarily the controller's fault you understand.
Airlines need to be more pro active. Baby sitting there with 3 A/C wasting the potential. Ryanair pulling out.
The powers that be need to get the infrastructure and facilities in place.
Its only us poor pilots that are perfect (joking).
It's almost as if CWL expects to grow in line with BRS just because its there.
It must start from the top the Welsh Assembly (etc) and CWL management must provide a viable attractive airport facility for airlines and passengers. Easier access and an upto date adequately sized terminal would be a start.
The Airport Management are bad at managing almost everything they manage. Building work at the height of summer,etc.
Air Traffic promised good times when they got the SIDs & STARs (we think things are worse now than before). Constant levelling off in climb/descent vectoring, etc. Not necessarily the controller's fault you understand.
Airlines need to be more pro active. Baby sitting there with 3 A/C wasting the potential. Ryanair pulling out.
The powers that be need to get the infrastructure and facilities in place.
Its only us poor pilots that are perfect (joking).
It's almost as if CWL expects to grow in line with BRS just because its there.
It must start from the top the Welsh Assembly (etc) and CWL management must provide a viable attractive airport facility for airlines and passengers. Easier access and an upto date adequately sized terminal would be a start.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 1,294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can you PM me with your problems so we can look at them for you, it may be we can give you an explanation for or maybe it is something we need to look at.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For Cardiff to be successful in the long term, it needs to be competitive and services need to be profitable in their own right. The new Barcelona service is receiving £500,000 assistance from the Welsh assembly. How ironic that the Labour Chancellor is trying to curb our flying habits by slapping on yet another tax, whilst the Labour controlled Welsh Assembly is subsidizing £19.99 flights to Barcelona. Surely subsidies are totally anti competitive and short term incentives?
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Crawley
Posts: 375
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Teifiboy I was just going to post pretty much the same thing. While I agree that a RDF is needed to connect remote communities with large cities (such as in Scotland) where there is no other option other than to fly, I don't think it is right to use public money for ventures like this. The health service is a shambles and educational institutions leave a lot to be desired! This money could have been better utilised in these sectors!!!
Scourge of Bad Airline Management!
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Global Nomad
Age: 55
Posts: 1,094
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another great example of joined up government from the current shambolic administrations, both in Cardiff and London....
What is worse is that we are now being stiffed twice - once by the Idiot Brown through APD, and once by the Idiot Morgan through our general taxes....
What is worse is that we are now being stiffed twice - once by the Idiot Brown through APD, and once by the Idiot Morgan through our general taxes....
Scourge of Bad Airline Management!
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Global Nomad
Age: 55
Posts: 1,094
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
still doesn't make it right
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Gloucestershire
Age: 66
Posts: 340
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FLYBE
I am now goimg to enter the Flybe debate.
You need to look at the Flybe fleet the 195s will replace the 146s quite right that CWL will be bottom of the food chain also BACON 146s to go as well.
I was reading Jetone on line with an article about Flybe BACON merge they went through all the Flybe bases and BHD had service reductions on all routes except BHX this has thrown up a spare D8. Look at how NWI started this was an a/c out of BHD on a W pattern with services to GLA and ABZ but once a day. Test the waters is what Flybe will do my guess is they will have a look at GLA. Forget longer services look more at Northen France.
BRS is also highly p.... ..f with Flybe. They held a meeting with all regional airlines except Flybe to offer support to any airline taking on a Flybe route.
Flybe pulled off BHD NWI and went on DUB a route built by Air Wales.
What killed Air Wales. You have to look right at the top of the tree for that problem.
Sound advice was given frequently but totally ignorded. One suggestion was to put two aircraft in to charter market one in pax one in freight. This is now happening with CDFF in pax back in service and a QC conversion happening on SSEA in the spring(its already in the hangar) operated by Aurigny sold commercially by flight line with no commercial input by the top of the tree. Maybe this time it will make a bit of money at least for AUR and FLT.
You need to look at the Flybe fleet the 195s will replace the 146s quite right that CWL will be bottom of the food chain also BACON 146s to go as well.
I was reading Jetone on line with an article about Flybe BACON merge they went through all the Flybe bases and BHD had service reductions on all routes except BHX this has thrown up a spare D8. Look at how NWI started this was an a/c out of BHD on a W pattern with services to GLA and ABZ but once a day. Test the waters is what Flybe will do my guess is they will have a look at GLA. Forget longer services look more at Northen France.
BRS is also highly p.... ..f with Flybe. They held a meeting with all regional airlines except Flybe to offer support to any airline taking on a Flybe route.
Flybe pulled off BHD NWI and went on DUB a route built by Air Wales.
What killed Air Wales. You have to look right at the top of the tree for that problem.
Sound advice was given frequently but totally ignorded. One suggestion was to put two aircraft in to charter market one in pax one in freight. This is now happening with CDFF in pax back in service and a QC conversion happening on SSEA in the spring(its already in the hangar) operated by Aurigny sold commercially by flight line with no commercial input by the top of the tree. Maybe this time it will make a bit of money at least for AUR and FLT.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, with the weather the way it is, I'd like to ask the ATCOs a question 
How much would it cost to upgrade Cardiff to Cat3? (Generally speaking) Are there any reasons that it couldn't be Cat3? Terrain etc?
If the airport did upgrade, would it ever break even on it from the income generated from flights during weather like today etc. And, finally, would it all be worth it with Bristol being Cat3 just up the road?
Cheers, Phil
How much would it cost to upgrade Cardiff to Cat3? (Generally speaking) Are there any reasons that it couldn't be Cat3? Terrain etc?
If the airport did upgrade, would it ever break even on it from the income generated from flights during weather like today etc. And, finally, would it all be worth it with Bristol being Cat3 just up the road?
Cheers, Phil
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 1,294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I couldn't tell you the cost they don't let ATCOs near money 
What would be needed to upgrade to CAT 3 is a Midpoint Transmissometer, and supplementary lighting, the ILS is already capable of CAT 3.
It certainly wouldn't be cheap. I'm not sure on the terrain requirements and if Cat 3 is even possible on either end.
I suppose they have to decide whether the cost is worth it when we may be affected on just a handful of days a year, however the airlines may have other ideas on that front.
edited to add the taxiway lighting system would also have to be upgraded
What would be needed to upgrade to CAT 3 is a Midpoint Transmissometer, and supplementary lighting, the ILS is already capable of CAT 3.
It certainly wouldn't be cheap. I'm not sure on the terrain requirements and if Cat 3 is even possible on either end.
I suppose they have to decide whether the cost is worth it when we may be affected on just a handful of days a year, however the airlines may have other ideas on that front.
edited to add the taxiway lighting system would also have to be upgraded
Last edited by flower; 21st Dec 2006 at 05:50.
StandupfortheUlstermen
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of Wurzelsetshire
Age: 53
Posts: 1,182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Incidentally, quarterly Base Capts meetings have been set up with the Airport Authority and ourselves so we can thrash out any operational problems that may arise. The base capts at Briss have also been furnished with an email address at ATC so they can send over any concerns which require immediate attention, prolly a better way to do things than moan on PPRuNe. I'm sure flower or one of her oppos on the Tech Committee would be only too happy to sort that out rather than have to charge into battle on here.
Oh yes, watching Torchwood last night, and I read the little on-screen write up - "Three passengers whose plane took off in 1953 make an unexpected landing in present day Cardiff and are shocked to learn they will never be able to turn the clock back."
Not to worry eh, the Airport Authority have done it for them!
Last edited by Standard Noise; 21st Dec 2006 at 08:01. Reason: Edited to add the last bit
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 1,294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They didn't even land at Cardiff Standard Noise but at RAF St Athan 
We do have good comms with the base captains at Cardiff and there is regular discussion with them.
I must admit I was surprised yesterday morning to hear what your Vis was at BRS the cloud layer must have been very low.
We do have good comms with the base captains at Cardiff and there is regular discussion with them.
I must admit I was surprised yesterday morning to hear what your Vis was at BRS the cloud layer must have been very low.
Scourge of Bad Airline Management!
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Global Nomad
Age: 55
Posts: 1,094
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote from the BBC News website:
Four at Cardiff? How the hell would BA know that, or care?
BA said 184 flights, including European short-haul and domestic, had been cancelled at Heathrow, 16 at Gatwick, 17 at Manchester Airport and four at Cardiff.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Earth
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So, CWL has hit the big 2,000,000 mark for 2006,
http://info.cwlfly.com/en/news/4/238...milestone.html
;with John Horne expecting - Double Digit Growth for 07 - WOW!!!
Really a great ambition! Sorry for my sarcasm (and not pessesism) there, but please.
Then ofcourse there was the multiple, er,ar,er after evey question, quite embarrising for the airport afterall, then my faviroute part of every Wales Tonight(ITV) interview with JH the inevitable BRS question comes up with how they are up to five and a half million PAX. With the further ers and well, furhter ers, a (mumbled(practily)) and half answerd reply. The usual drivvle. There also three new routes for 07 currently, Kos, Barcelona and Nantes are the three mentioned by the ITV correspondent. So, lets just hope 07 brings some good news. The website link states 'and more expected' there words not mine. Some good news for the end of my rant. Then hopefully 08 (*cough* NYC *cough*).
Smile!!!
http://info.cwlfly.com/en/news/4/238...milestone.html
;with John Horne expecting - Double Digit Growth for 07 - WOW!!!
Really a great ambition! Sorry for my sarcasm (and not pessesism) there, but please.Then ofcourse there was the multiple, er,ar,er after evey question, quite embarrising for the airport afterall, then my faviroute part of every Wales Tonight(ITV) interview with JH the inevitable BRS question comes up with how they are up to five and a half million PAX. With the further ers and well, furhter ers, a (mumbled(practily)) and half answerd reply. The usual drivvle. There also three new routes for 07 currently, Kos, Barcelona and Nantes are the three mentioned by the ITV correspondent. So, lets just hope 07 brings some good news. The website link states 'and more expected' there words not mine. Some good news for the end of my rant. Then hopefully 08 (*cough* NYC *cough*).
Smile!!!
Last edited by Smile!!!; 5th Jan 2007 at 00:12.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 1,294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I understand that between 7 and 9 of the Easy Jet fleet will be operating out of Cardiff this weekend plus EXCEL, I hope we have enough ground crews working.
Bus companies will be raking it in again.
Bus companies will be raking it in again.