CORK - 4
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No chance of the MAN route happening before 9th July because it will compete with its own route to Liverpool ex Cork that deps 2135.
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dwlpl
I'm not convinced. Ryanair would be aiming at taking passengers from BMIbaby who also have an evening flight between Cork and Manchester... Two Ryanair flights leaving Cork at the same time, one going to Liverpool, and the other going to Manchester doesn't strike me as that incredible.
I'm not convinced. Ryanair would be aiming at taking passengers from BMIbaby who also have an evening flight between Cork and Manchester... Two Ryanair flights leaving Cork at the same time, one going to Liverpool, and the other going to Manchester doesn't strike me as that incredible.
Last edited by Evileyes; 5th Jan 2007 at 20:46. Reason: ADQ
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1. Easyjet bullied BMIbaby off the Cork - Gatwick route
2. Ryanair bullied Easyjet off the Cork - Gatwick route
Biggest bully wins
I can't see a lot that Cork Airport can do about it. It's the nature of the whole business. Just like how AerLingus are trying to bully BMIbaby off Birmingham and Manchester. They're all at it!
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edmunster
So if the last rotation is to be DUB, then the schedule should probably be like:
ORK - DUB 2105 - 2155
DUB - ORK 2220 - 2310
I'm fairly disgusted really that Ryanair are just using their aircraft to fly to Dublin all day
Okay it's great news for most people who would really like or need to travel regularly to Dublin. But if I was scheduling that aircraft I could think of a dozen routes I'd like to use it on before Dublin. Seems like a waste...
So if the last rotation is to be DUB, then the schedule should probably be like:
ORK - DUB 2105 - 2155
DUB - ORK 2220 - 2310
I'm fairly disgusted really that Ryanair are just using their aircraft to fly to Dublin all day
Okay it's great news for most people who would really like or need to travel regularly to Dublin. But if I was scheduling that aircraft I could think of a dozen routes I'd like to use it on before Dublin. Seems like a waste...
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RE72
May 17 as an example. FR have a flight on ORKDUB at 1155/1245... my point is if ORK LGW leaves at 1255 when the ac is in DUB how could it be the same ac? The info I am refering to is the summer times as are stated on Ryanair's website. Besides all the talk of FR schedules and changes refer to the summer tt which will come in, around early April.
Please do check the dates at random to satify yourself of my information.The same times are still showing for May/Jun and July I havent checked any other months.
May 17 as an example. FR have a flight on ORKDUB at 1155/1245... my point is if ORK LGW leaves at 1255 when the ac is in DUB how could it be the same ac? The info I am refering to is the summer times as are stated on Ryanair's website. Besides all the talk of FR schedules and changes refer to the summer tt which will come in, around early April.
Please do check the dates at random to satify yourself of my information.The same times are still showing for May/Jun and July I havent checked any other months.
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Ryanair
EI-BUD, they can change Gatwick to a slightly later time and do it with the Cork based aircraft. Could be a 2nd plane but I wouldn't count on it given that they are constantly mouthing about the so called high charges at Cork Airport.
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EI-BUD
During the process of uploading the new schedules, not everything is uploaded at once. Therefore there are always be contradictory schedules for any particular aircraft.
Believe us: the 1255 LGW flight WILL get rescheduled to 1450! We all know it still says 1255 on the Ryanair website for May. But we also know from experience that Ryanair often put summer flights on sale with winter times before the summer schedule is ready. Then when the summer schedule is ready there'll be 1, 2, even 3 weeks of chopping and changing of the online schedule before the new schedule is fully clear / available.
During the process of uploading the new schedules, not everything is uploaded at once. Therefore there are always be contradictory schedules for any particular aircraft.
Believe us: the 1255 LGW flight WILL get rescheduled to 1450! We all know it still says 1255 on the Ryanair website for May. But we also know from experience that Ryanair often put summer flights on sale with winter times before the summer schedule is ready. Then when the summer schedule is ready there'll be 1, 2, even 3 weeks of chopping and changing of the online schedule before the new schedule is fully clear / available.
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Dub-ork
I to believe that the new late departure will be ORK-DUB-ORK, as it will operate head on with the RE last departure of the day from DUB - ORK @ 2230.
This is what its all about, personally i feel that MOL isnt to bothered with ORK, he has a personal vendetta against RE, which he has shown before towards RE staff @ DUB, and his sole objective is to run RE off the DUB - ORK route.
Also, The new earlier departure out of ORK coincises with the RE first departure on the ORK-DUB sector, all in all, it looks like FR is stepping up a gear on its war with RE
This is what its all about, personally i feel that MOL isnt to bothered with ORK, he has a personal vendetta against RE, which he has shown before towards RE staff @ DUB, and his sole objective is to run RE off the DUB - ORK route.
Also, The new earlier departure out of ORK coincises with the RE first departure on the ORK-DUB sector, all in all, it looks like FR is stepping up a gear on its war with RE
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Fr Dub/lgw
I can understand why the FR summer schedule will have 5x DUB and 1X LGW, but I think that the company would be much better off to do 4X DUB and 2x LGW, as with those departures there is significant possibilities for connections to long haul destinations.
RE have clearly shown that they are well able to fight competition on this route, and as far as I am concerned FR and RE have two seperate markets. REs passenegrs are mainly on business and the're not too worried about the price. The fares to DUB are, on average about €50-€60 each way. They seem to be doing OK. FR passengers are those who would normally thake the train, drive, or get the bus.
Im putting my money on RE being on the ORK-DUB route for quite some time to come. Afterall the ATR is optimised for such short flights, the 737 gets nowhere near its most effecient crusing height, and must burn significantly larger quantities of fuel per passenger than the ATR. Also given the fact that FR are selling most seats at about €30-€50 rtn, I think this is a war FR might not be able to win.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
Brian.
RE have clearly shown that they are well able to fight competition on this route, and as far as I am concerned FR and RE have two seperate markets. REs passenegrs are mainly on business and the're not too worried about the price. The fares to DUB are, on average about €50-€60 each way. They seem to be doing OK. FR passengers are those who would normally thake the train, drive, or get the bus.
Im putting my money on RE being on the ORK-DUB route for quite some time to come. Afterall the ATR is optimised for such short flights, the 737 gets nowhere near its most effecient crusing height, and must burn significantly larger quantities of fuel per passenger than the ATR. Also given the fact that FR are selling most seats at about €30-€50 rtn, I think this is a war FR might not be able to win.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
Brian.
RE72,
I really can't see why this DUB-ORK expansion is a personal vendetta against Arann? Arann is just a small operator which has never been a threat to FR and never will be. To my knowledge there have never been any conflicts between those 2 companies. Yes FR wanted to get the DUB-KIR pso route last year but did not get it. Again that was not really to piss off RE but more targeted at the government.
On the DUB-ORK route, yes RE might be a victim but the main target for MOL is more the Irish train system if I am not mistaken?!
When FR started on the route RE reduced the frequency straight away but their planes were and still are completely full, and they started with more daily flights again.
Time will tell who the winners and loosers will be
Brian D, I agree with you
I really can't see why this DUB-ORK expansion is a personal vendetta against Arann? Arann is just a small operator which has never been a threat to FR and never will be. To my knowledge there have never been any conflicts between those 2 companies. Yes FR wanted to get the DUB-KIR pso route last year but did not get it. Again that was not really to piss off RE but more targeted at the government.
On the DUB-ORK route, yes RE might be a victim but the main target for MOL is more the Irish train system if I am not mistaken?!
When FR started on the route RE reduced the frequency straight away but their planes were and still are completely full, and they started with more daily flights again.
Time will tell who the winners and loosers will be
Brian D, I agree with you
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I tend to agree with RE72 and brian_dromey that Ryanair do want a monopoly on the ORK - DUB route, but that I can see Aer Arann surviving as they are the only players who give flexibility and convenience to business passengers.
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RE V FR on ORK DUB
Its looks clear that FR are trying hard to oust RE. But I am not as sure that RE are doing quite as well as they are saying. Yes they are a good option for the business traveller, but they also have had to do a fair amount of discounting on the tickets too.
Aer Arann have stated that FR are losing money on ORKDUB, or I think they used the term loss leader. MOL is bound to be responding to that comment, he usually does rise to the competition.
I can never see FR giving up the fight on a route where there is a big volume of passenger numbers. FR wanted DUBKIR on the last occasion that the PSOs were put up for tender, the result was that RE had to accept a much reduced Grant to secure continuation on the route. The next time PSO come up for renewal I can see FR using the stats from DUBORK in order to put a good case forward for entry to DUBKIR...? What does anyone else think???
Aer Arann have stated that FR are losing money on ORKDUB, or I think they used the term loss leader. MOL is bound to be responding to that comment, he usually does rise to the competition.
I can never see FR giving up the fight on a route where there is a big volume of passenger numbers. FR wanted DUBKIR on the last occasion that the PSOs were put up for tender, the result was that RE had to accept a much reduced Grant to secure continuation on the route. The next time PSO come up for renewal I can see FR using the stats from DUBORK in order to put a good case forward for entry to DUBKIR...? What does anyone else think???
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Well, with RE in line to take delivery of some new ATR-72 aircraft shortly they might want to take the fight right back to FR, if that is what MO'L is doing with them, by putting on an ATR-72 on Cork - Luton on two or three times a day. How could RE lose and with some free fresh coffee and De Paper to read during the flight it would surely be a hit with Cork folk and it might have the further attraction of getting at FR's yield on ORK-London?
Are there incentives available now again for Cork - East Midlands? I do not know but if there were how about RE jumping in quickly and seizing the incentive initiative from FR if EMA was in their grand plan? Aer Arann might also want to consider a mid-day flight from Cork to Derry? The ATR-42 would be almost perfectly suited for such a new route trial. If Galway is working ex ORK then LDY should at least be the same if not better? Hard to see MO'L getting worked up enough to send a 140 seat restricted 737-800 down to Cork from Derry any time in the future! Even Cork-Rotterdam on the ATR should be okay for RE with the new aeroplanes? Remember that the City Flyer ATR did Cork-LGW-Rotterdam in times past with the same equipment.
As for Kerry allow history to repeat itself and take an RE ATR to Luton again just like FR did with their own ATR-42s. Hard to see FR replying with another flight from LON to Kerry and once again it would eat away at the FR yield.
If MO'L is not too bothered with Cork by jove he has had to spend a lot of cash on first making sure he got rid of easyJet from Cork and Ireland and as it seems from here he is now up for spending a lot of money once again on trying to squeeze Aer Arann on Cork-Dublin. it looks like to me that he is or someone else in Ryanair is indeed quite bothered by little ol' Cork Airport, the airport with just the wan airbridge, the short runway, the low cloud, the high airfield elevation and the no CATIII ILS!!?? I think MO'L or someone else there in the FR HQ is as bothered by Cork Airport as some of us on here are, don't you think?
It is understandable though as Cork Airport can do that to you! However, some of my medical friends tell me there are tablets available that can help with the problem!
Are there incentives available now again for Cork - East Midlands? I do not know but if there were how about RE jumping in quickly and seizing the incentive initiative from FR if EMA was in their grand plan? Aer Arann might also want to consider a mid-day flight from Cork to Derry? The ATR-42 would be almost perfectly suited for such a new route trial. If Galway is working ex ORK then LDY should at least be the same if not better? Hard to see MO'L getting worked up enough to send a 140 seat restricted 737-800 down to Cork from Derry any time in the future! Even Cork-Rotterdam on the ATR should be okay for RE with the new aeroplanes? Remember that the City Flyer ATR did Cork-LGW-Rotterdam in times past with the same equipment.
As for Kerry allow history to repeat itself and take an RE ATR to Luton again just like FR did with their own ATR-42s. Hard to see FR replying with another flight from LON to Kerry and once again it would eat away at the FR yield.
If MO'L is not too bothered with Cork by jove he has had to spend a lot of cash on first making sure he got rid of easyJet from Cork and Ireland and as it seems from here he is now up for spending a lot of money once again on trying to squeeze Aer Arann on Cork-Dublin. it looks like to me that he is or someone else in Ryanair is indeed quite bothered by little ol' Cork Airport, the airport with just the wan airbridge, the short runway, the low cloud, the high airfield elevation and the no CATIII ILS!!?? I think MO'L or someone else there in the FR HQ is as bothered by Cork Airport as some of us on here are, don't you think?
It is understandable though as Cork Airport can do that to you! However, some of my medical friends tell me there are tablets available that can help with the problem!
Last edited by Tom the Tenor; 7th Jan 2007 at 09:22.
EI-BUD,
I haven't been in RE for quite a while but having talked with some who's still there the RE loads are still very good, hence increased frequency on the route. You are probably right that MOL donesn't give up easily but the 738 is not the optimum plane on that route, the ATR is!
Even with very low ticket prizes you only need about 15-20 pax to break even in the ATR, it takes a lot more for a 737. With the ticket prizes FR are selling that Boeing has to be quite full to break even.
The time difference between the two aircrafts on that route is only 5-10 minutes. The Boeing will burn about 3ish tons of fuel where the ATR will only burn around 500-600 kg on that route.
Don't forget the competetion from the railway link too.
So as Tom the Tenor says with free coffee and a newspaper I think the frequent traveller takes RE any time.
For the DUB-KIR route I seriously doubt the government will ever give give FR a pso route, not in our lifetime
I haven't been in RE for quite a while but having talked with some who's still there the RE loads are still very good, hence increased frequency on the route. You are probably right that MOL donesn't give up easily but the 738 is not the optimum plane on that route, the ATR is!
Even with very low ticket prizes you only need about 15-20 pax to break even in the ATR, it takes a lot more for a 737. With the ticket prizes FR are selling that Boeing has to be quite full to break even.
The time difference between the two aircrafts on that route is only 5-10 minutes. The Boeing will burn about 3ish tons of fuel where the ATR will only burn around 500-600 kg on that route.
Don't forget the competetion from the railway link too.
So as Tom the Tenor says with free coffee and a newspaper I think the frequent traveller takes RE any time.
For the DUB-KIR route I seriously doubt the government will ever give give FR a pso route, not in our lifetime
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Strategy:
Strive for an FR/EI duopoly in Cork
Force charges down
Move aircraft from Shannon to Cork (the "high yield, high catchment airport")
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Ork - Bhd
It's a very well established route, and nearly always sees loads above 65% , on the 2 depatures, each way, each day
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Aer Arann
Of course Ryanair's weather record is far better than Aer Arann on Dublin Cork. In almost 14 months not once has a FR domestic flight been diverted to SNN or KIR although they did on a handful of occassions return to Dublin.
Ryanair are CAT2 compliant and more importantly avail of this facility when the Cork RVR goes below CAT1 minima.
Cork Derry could work for Aer Arann but the amount of diversions and cancellations on Galway Cork particularly on Sunday's is on the high side.
Cork Luton sounds OK but at the end of the day it's in the London catchment area and that means competing with Ryanair and Aerlingus.
Ryanair are CAT2 compliant and more importantly avail of this facility when the Cork RVR goes below CAT1 minima.
Cork Derry could work for Aer Arann but the amount of diversions and cancellations on Galway Cork particularly on Sunday's is on the high side.
Cork Luton sounds OK but at the end of the day it's in the London catchment area and that means competing with Ryanair and Aerlingus.
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Cork-London City would probably work better. The short runway would mean Ryanair could never compete. It would also probably be popular with business travellers who wouldn't mind paying a few euro extra for using the service if it brought them to LCY. Does anyone know how Jetmagic did on the route?