CORK - 4

[ryan2000]

Ryan2000

Unless they are thinking of routes that Ryanair are not interested in. Two years ago they offered Cork a package of UK and Continental services including Dortmund, Berlin , Bristol and Glasgow. but for some reason it never materialised.

[airhumberside]

Originally Posted by EI-BUD

Apart from that, my EZY contact has said that Ryanair and Easyjet heads have met and have an understanding not to go onto the same routes head to head

Couldn't this be classed as anti-competitive and get them into troubel with the competition authorities?

[The_Bean_Counter]

What a pile of poo

Only in the last week have Ryanair announced Rome - Madrid an Easyjet route and Easyjet have announced Gatwick to Palermo and Pisa, two Ryanair routes

[RE72]

Ryanair / Easyjet

The_Bean_Counter

Thats News To Me That FR serve LGW - Palermo / Pisa

Because Theres a big difference in serving LGW - Palermo / Pisa and serving STN - Palermo / Pisa .... A 72 Mile Difference.

[ryan2000]

Cork US link.

AA are operating Chicago Shannon for Summer 2007 as are EI. CO are operating EWR-SNN. Delta operating from Atlanta and JFK to SNN and EI are operating from JFK and Bos to SNN. US air operating from Philadelphia to SNN.

If all of these routes are viable its a poor reflection on Cork that it cannot get a direct US service up and running even on a seasonal basis.

You won't be able to hide behind the bilateral for much longer and the Department of transport have provided you with a loophole since 2004.

[EI-BUD]

Ryanair & Easyjet

The Bean Counter:

As for Competing on Gatwick/Palermo & Pisa, Ryanair do not fly these routes. However, they do serve these airports from London Stansted. I gather you meant they were competing on London area to Palermo and Pisa. I have to say I agree with RE72 on this one. Totally different airports miles apart and when factoring in driving conditions , its a long way.

Back to my comment about madrid/rome, prior to me writing that comment the website was showing that Easyjet was not flying it after March 24th, this seems to have changed. So you are right on that.However, I dont forsee any intense competition. Probably a daily rotation each and this frequency is unlikely to require major discounting as seats will fill up easily. But going back to my original comments I dont think it is to wide of the mark to say that they will (FR & EZY) will stay out of each others ways . Certainly where like for like routes are concerned.

RE: Air Humberside comment , could be seen as anti competitive, I think you are absolutley right, but how can it be proven and also it is I would its a very informal gentlemans agreement . What do you think ?

[brian_dromey]

Originally Posted by ryan2000

If all of these routes are viable its a poor reflection on Cork that it cannot get a direct US service up and running even on a seasonal basis.

All of the expansion on trans-atlantic routes has come from American Carriers. These airlines have equipment, the B752/762ER which would be very suitable from a size and operational standpoint for operations from Cork. The problem is still the bi-lateral. As I understand it, if the ships are not regestered in Ireland, then it is necessary to keep the 1:1 ratio regardless of where the a/c begins its journey. IF the ship is Irish regestered then once the journey begins anywhere except DUB, the stop is not necessary.

Basically the stop over is the main issue for the Americans, and the operational limitations(runway length and the 180 turn) are the main reason for EI not launching a service. The reality still is that the bi-latteral is restrictive and disadvantages ORK and NOC. If the regulatory climate had be right we could have seen t/a routes this summer. I do not blame the CAA for this, its hardly their fault that Airlines are not willing to operate into Cprk. Even if they could land for free, they still would not come.

[en2r]

Yet another day of cancellations. Almost everything today has been cancelled, or is subject to significant delays. This cannot go on. When will they realise that the airport needs CATIII as a matter of urgency. Airlines will pull out if this continues.

[orkpilot]

Its not only COrk that flights have been cancelled or diverted.
Dublin and Shannon are also sitting in the fog.
There was even diversions from Shannon to Cork yesterday!!
At least Cork has a CAT 2 ils!!!!

[dwlpl]

Correct if I am wrong but doesn't the pilot, as well as the aircraft, need to be cleared to operate in the various CAT divisions?

If so, its no use having the airfield cleared to operate CATIII if the pilot/aircraft isn't.

[Tom the Tenor]

Since last night it has been yet another long day of lost pax for Cork Airport. Before midnight two EI A320s diverted to Shannon and then in the early hours the two Wizz Air A320s from Katowice and Gdansk also diverted to Shannon. The galling thing is that both Wizz Air flights would, undoubtedly, have been full to the brim outbound with folk from Poland heading home for the Christmas Holiday. The loss on the Poland flights alone would be near to 360 pax.

There was a lucky break around 9 am when the Central Wings from Wroclaw eventually landed at Cork after having first decided to go to snn but that luck did not hold as both the FR9843 headed back again to Dublin and then the EI841 from AMS also diverted to Shannon.

Why does Cork Airport not have a CATIII ILS? Yes, I am repeating myself but not for one moment do I accept talk about rad alt and slopes being the final word on why Cork cannot overcome the installation issue. The technical issues must be overcome and if this takes pots of cash to get it right and if the Dublin Airport Authority refuses to recognise the dire situation Cork Airport is in regularly due to low cloud and some fog is it time to go to the private sector and sell off Cork Airport?

Why are the folk whom are charged with responsibility at Cork Airport not speaking out about this crazy situation the airport finds itself in once again today during this holiday period? It is a disgrace. Up to time 1415z today by my rough reckoning Cork Airport has so far lost around 1200 pax or even more since last night. It will be interesting to note what waffle the public relations companies hired by the the Dublin Airport Authority and their servants in the Cork Airport Authority come up with on this latest disaster at one of our nation's airports.

As for flights to America from Cork - dream on! If the bilateral disappeared tomorrow morning it would mean very little for a long, long time. In 2006 the sole airbridge at the new Cork Airport may be looked on as the new airport's Annex of Incompetence.

[fanatic1]

Don't Worry!

Originally Posted by ryan2000

....If all of these routes are viable its a poor reflection on Cork that it cannot get a direct US service up and running even on a seasonal basis......

My Dad was at a Rotary Meeting about two weeks ago..Kevin Cullinane was guest speaker. (Marketing Manager)

He said that they probably will have a charter flight (most definitely excel, since they have already mentioned it) to Florida in 2007. And most definitely by 2008.

[Tom the Tenor]

Well, my earlier estimate of the numbers of passengers diverted and cancelled must be a lot higher than around 1,200 because much if not all of the bmi baby programme and a huge chunk of Aer Arann's programme was cancelled today along with EI cancellations to Paris, Rome and Lanzarote. As far as I know the EI868 to Barcelona is likely to operate later from snn. At least the EI893 from Madrid eventually made it in a short while back during a brief clearer spell along with the FR905 from STN but as I type the RVRs are gone away down again to 250 metres.

Only Cork Airport is able to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory so well in it's own so unique way and the hoped for 3 million passengers for 2006 must now be sinking fast?

Fanatic, get your Dad to tell Mr Cullinane to ditch the ol' guff about Florida - what will work is New York, Florida wont, for heavens sake!

What Cork people want for their summer hols are the Lanzarotes, the Santa Ponsas and a bit of pop music!

[metalboymike]

Did anyopne hear the rumours of NOC-JFK/BOS flights for next year?
It was in the Irish Mail on Sunday and apparently Mayor bloomberg of New York got sanctions for the route without a shannon stop.

Just thought the same could happen at Cork if airlines dont object?

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by brian_dromey

All of the expansion on trans-atlantic routes has come from American Carriers. These airlines have equipment, the B752/762ER which would be very suitable from a size and operational standpoint for operations from Cork. The problem is still the bi-lateral. As I understand it, if the ships are not regestered in Ireland, then it is necessary to keep the 1:1 ratio regardless of where the a/c begins its journey. IF the ship is Irish regestered then once the journey begins anywhere except DUB, the stop is not necessary.

Brian:

For what it's worth, my recollection of the bilateral is not that American carriers need to keep a 1:1 ratio if they fly to Irish points other than DUB, but rather that under the bilateral, American carriers are simply not allowed to fly to any points other than DUB or SNN. I don't think 1:1 ratios come into it.

Brgds
C.

[Charlie Roy]

Fog

I hope this forecast is wrong:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/5day.shtml?world=0211

Otherwise one of Cork Airport's busiest weeks of the year is set for severe disruption

[akerosid]

Originally Posted by Cyrano

Brian:
For what it's worth, my recollection of the bilateral is not that American carriers need to keep a 1:1 ratio if they fly to Irish points other than DUB, but rather that under the bilateral, American carriers are simply not allowed to fly to any points other than DUB or SNN. I don't think 1:1 ratios come into it.
Brgds
C.

With any luck, if Cullen is allowed to negotiate an amended deal with the US, he can also include a provision for ORK to get access from the US. It's a ridiculous situation for ORK to find itself in. I don't agree that there isn't a market. Among the Irish people living in the US, there must be a significant number, not just from Cork, but from the SE of the country, who would find ORK more convenient. I'd be very surprised if a 757 from EWR, JFK or BOS couldn't be made to work. But for a start, let's get the restrictive regulations out of the way and then at least, the Cork Airport Authority can approach US carriers and give them some incentives.

[en2r]

Originally Posted by Charlie Roy

I hope this forecast is wrong:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/5day.shtml?world=0211

Otherwise one of Cork Airport's busiest weeks of the year is set for severe disruption

I hope so too. Saturday could be the busiest day of the year. It would be a disaster if it were anything like today

[EI-BUD]

Cork flights to US

I have to agree with Aeroskid I think a daily 757 operation on the atlantic from Cork could do well. There is alot of activity on the atlantic by american companies using 757, especially Continental. Many of the routes that they have launched were to routes that were previously unavailable eg Bristol and Belfast to Newark.

However, It would be very interesting to know what the volume of traffic is originating in Cork heading to Eg BOS,JFK, ORD, EWR and connecting at LHR or AMS, CDG or DUB. Perhaps the intending passengers may well travel to SNN to catch flights.

In any case, I would like to see AerLingus do the Cork US run if it happened, As the interline business could be driven with their low fares? But I am not sure if the A330-200 with full load could take off? I know big aircfaft can land there but with performance restrictions. Does anyone know if A330 can do it with full load ?

[ryan2000]

Cork US link.

In 2004 an EI senior executive publicly stated that the Runway length was not an issue if EI decided to operate ORK JFK. He confirmed that the route was under consideration but said that a change in the bilateral was required.

Around this time the Dept. discoverd the loophole in the bilateral that would have allowed Aer Arann operate the route but that proposal fell through in Sept 2004.

In October the Willie Walsh led regime departed. It is not known what the attitude of the current management of EI is towards a US link from Cork.

Given the current level of activity ex SNN albeit due to the outdated stopover, a Cork JFK service at 3 per week sounds feasible but of course Yield is the overriding factor in all of this. Will Cork people switch to SNN when the cheap fares are gone and V.V. ?