COVENTRY
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Local MP on radio this morning.
Well listening to the local Leamington and Warwick MP on the radio this morning I think the Battle Lines are being drawn up already.Whilst wishing the New Owners well he stated that Possible future Passenger flights where likely to be not too popular with his constituents and new Airport terminals would still be opposed.What a bunch of Weary Willies, for goodness sake give the place a chance.To hear some of the objections to passenger planes you would think they where about to roll out a fleet of pre hushkit Bac 1-11s or 737s. I,ve no vested in the Airport but think they deserve some good luck for a change.
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The rubbish about being BHX centric is just that. Even at the hight of the Thomson gold rush it was not hurting BHX. If that was the case then BHX pax figures should have risen equally with loss of pax at CVT. The fact that CVT couldn't make it pay with minimal maintenance costs to the infrastructure speaks volumes
They already had the ability to build a smaller terminal but insisted on wasting money fighting for a larger one. They built extra runway without asking and wasted the money on that as it can't be used.
Passenger traffic brings larger costs in Security/Policing etc, just wanting it because it sounds good is not reason enough. The MD of ADP said it all when he ruled out LOCO airlines. He knows that passenger numbers alone don't relate to profit. There are many small regional airports all over Europe that make no money because they went down the route of building for RyanAir etc. They have passengers but still no money.
CVT has huge Cargo potential. The BA and GA will always be there and could grow dependent on the reasons people need to fly to Coventry. Plenty of scope for niche market charters. There is large potential for property growth and I dare say that would have been part of the discussions with CCC.
No doubt after DD they will make known there vision in more detail. Good luck to all who sail in her...
They already had the ability to build a smaller terminal but insisted on wasting money fighting for a larger one. They built extra runway without asking and wasted the money on that as it can't be used.
Passenger traffic brings larger costs in Security/Policing etc, just wanting it because it sounds good is not reason enough. The MD of ADP said it all when he ruled out LOCO airlines. He knows that passenger numbers alone don't relate to profit. There are many small regional airports all over Europe that make no money because they went down the route of building for RyanAir etc. They have passengers but still no money.
CVT has huge Cargo potential. The BA and GA will always be there and could grow dependent on the reasons people need to fly to Coventry. Plenty of scope for niche market charters. There is large potential for property growth and I dare say that would have been part of the discussions with CCC.
No doubt after DD they will make known there vision in more detail. Good luck to all who sail in her...
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Coventry airport was burning £5m per year i.e it cost £10m to make £5m income. That is why it owed £25m when it was wound up.
The big question is at what levels of turnover and type of operations do the running costs get covered by the income? If they want a full service (>£6m cost) then they need a large income that will be hard to get. A very small operation (~£1m) the income would not even cover the fixed costs. They need look at the buisness case for a few million a year operation that has more income than cost.
The big question is at what levels of turnover and type of operations do the running costs get covered by the income? If they want a full service (>£6m cost) then they need a large income that will be hard to get. A very small operation (~£1m) the income would not even cover the fixed costs. They need look at the buisness case for a few million a year operation that has more income than cost.
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Suck Eggs
Befree and the rest.
If it is true that the company that has been mentioned are going to buy the airfield I am sure that they have a bussiness plan. They must have a good laugh if they read this thread with all the pie in the sky advice that is posted.
Income > 6milloin or income < 1million. Which is best.
I would consult Harry Hill to sort it out.
If it is true that the company that has been mentioned are going to buy the airfield I am sure that they have a bussiness plan. They must have a good laugh if they read this thread with all the pie in the sky advice that is posted.
Income > 6milloin or income < 1million. Which is best.
I would consult Harry Hill to sort it out.
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And your suggestion would be??? Snotty reply does not make for good debate. If you have nothing worth saying....Don't say it!
No advice being given to ADP....Just a discussion on this board...Suggest you re-evaluate what you think the board is for...
No advice being given to ADP....Just a discussion on this board...Suggest you re-evaluate what you think the board is for...
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Ooooooo!
Call 100 me and you outside the OAK. Handbags at dawn! Lighten up.
This site is for rumours and a bit of fun plus wind bags.
Firstly I have an interest in Coventry airport and wish to see it open.
When it does in the short term I see it as a GA / maintenance airfield. No pax or frieght operations. ATC, fire and security would be at a lower level than required for commercial operations thus reducing opeational costs. No expensive nav aids to maintain etc etc. Get the airfield operating without bleeding money and then look at the options. Thats my windbag bit.
However it would be nice if the company that may buy the airfield have loads of money and big plans...
This site is for rumours and a bit of fun plus wind bags.
Firstly I have an interest in Coventry airport and wish to see it open.
When it does in the short term I see it as a GA / maintenance airfield. No pax or frieght operations. ATC, fire and security would be at a lower level than required for commercial operations thus reducing opeational costs. No expensive nav aids to maintain etc etc. Get the airfield operating without bleeding money and then look at the options. Thats my windbag bit.
However it would be nice if the company that may buy the airfield have loads of money and big plans...
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Does CVT still have the option to go to 24h operation? I know they did do this some years ago when the Post Office/Parcelforce used it for freight. If so, it might be the key to getting a decent freight operation going.
Wish them well.
Wish them well.
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Most airfields have the options of going 24 hours, subject to approval from the relevant authorities and the inevitable complaints from locals.
However as coventry has done it before they would have no problem doing it again i shouldn't think, BUT theres no point going 24 hours if you havn't got traffic, thats alot of money being wasted no staff sitting around for one aircraft. It would be more likely to start doing short hours and build up from there if and when traffic permits.
However as coventry has done it before they would have no problem doing it again i shouldn't think, BUT theres no point going 24 hours if you havn't got traffic, thats alot of money being wasted no staff sitting around for one aircraft. It would be more likely to start doing short hours and build up from there if and when traffic permits.
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GA (light) versus bigger stuff
If you take the most recent pre-recession throughput of GA at COV, say 2007, what you saw was 28K training movements, 5K 'aero club', 7K private and 3K 'air taxi' which must also havve included biz av in COV's case. That's 22K landings. Assume an average revenue of say £20 per landing (use any figure you want but let's be realistic), then that's £440K/annum.
Assuming you'll only get half that traffic for the first few years of picking it up off it's feet then GA will give you just about enough to pay for some tarmac repairs.
Sorry, but there is no way on the planet a facility like COV is sustainable from GA alone - Wellesborne or Wolverhampton, possibly, but you are talking about a massively more demanding infrastructure at COV
Assuming you'll only get half that traffic for the first few years of picking it up off it's feet then GA will give you just about enough to pay for some tarmac repairs.
Sorry, but there is no way on the planet a facility like COV is sustainable from GA alone - Wellesborne or Wolverhampton, possibly, but you are talking about a massively more demanding infrastructure at COV
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Call 100 me and you outside the OAK. Handbags at dawn! Lighten up.
This site is for rumours and a bit of fun plus wind bags.
Firstly I have an interest in Coventry airport and wish to see it open.
When it does in the short term I see it as a GA / maintenance airfield. No pax or frieght operations. ATC, fire and security would be at a lower level than required for commercial operations thus reducing opeational costs. No expensive nav aids to maintain etc etc. Get the airfield operating without bleeding money and then look at the options. Thats my windbag bit.
However it would be nice if the company that may buy the airfield have loads of money and big plans...
This site is for rumours and a bit of fun plus wind bags.
Firstly I have an interest in Coventry airport and wish to see it open.
When it does in the short term I see it as a GA / maintenance airfield. No pax or frieght operations. ATC, fire and security would be at a lower level than required for commercial operations thus reducing opeational costs. No expensive nav aids to maintain etc etc. Get the airfield operating without bleeding money and then look at the options. Thats my windbag bit.
However it would be nice if the company that may buy the airfield have loads of money and big plans...
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If you take the most recent pre-recession throughput of GA at COV, say 2007, what you saw was 28K training movements, 5K 'aero club', 7K private and 3K 'air taxi' which must also havve included biz av in COV's case. That's 22K landings. Assume an average revenue of say £20 per landing (use any figure you want but let's be realistic), then that's £440K/annum.
Assuming you'll only get half that traffic for the first few years of picking it up off it's feet then GA will give you just about enough to pay for some tarmac repairs.
Sorry, but there is no way on the planet a facility like COV is sustainable from GA alone - Wellesborne or Wolverhampton, possibly, but you are talking about a massively more demanding infrastructure at COV
Assuming you'll only get half that traffic for the first few years of picking it up off it's feet then GA will give you just about enough to pay for some tarmac repairs.
Sorry, but there is no way on the planet a facility like COV is sustainable from GA alone - Wellesborne or Wolverhampton, possibly, but you are talking about a massively more demanding infrastructure at COV
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Originally Posted by Romaro
If you take the most recent pre-recession throughput of GA at COV, say 2007, what you saw was 28K training movements, 5K 'aero club', 7K private and 3K 'air taxi' which must also havve included biz av in COV's case. That's 22K landings. Assume an average revenue of say £20 per landing (use any figure you want but let's be realistic), then that's £440K/annum.
If you take the most recent pre-recession throughput of GA at COV, say 2007, what you saw was 28K training movements, 5K 'aero club', 7K private and 3K 'air taxi' which must also havve included biz av in COV's case. That's 22K landings. Assume an average revenue of say £20 per landing (use any figure you want but let's be realistic), then that's £440K/annum.
I've paid £450 for a night landing at BHX in a light cessna twin - less than four tonnes, no passengers. Even the smaller airports will charge £80+ just for a daytime landing. Now add to that the profits made on selling fuel (when landing away we'll regularly pick up 800+ ltrs), and handling (take the mandatory 25 metre ride in the back of the standard issue Merc VITO, open a cheque book and drop your pants)... It doesn't take many movements to build up a large turnover.
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But you have to think. Taking your example there.
A night landing at BHX and what you paid for your service.
Add up what it cost BHX. Fire Cat 8 or whatever they are close to that, probably 8-10 fire fighters, 4 or 5 appliances. Air traffic controllers probably 2 or 3, 1 assistant. Handling agent, night staff 1 bloke to drive the van. Cost of the lights being on, hundreds of lights. Plus the blokes to man the fuel bowser in the middle of the night.
Yes i understand that they might have more than you moving at night but its not alot more. Perhaps they do 20 movements maximum in the late night early hours of the morning if that. Compare that to the cost of staying open for those hours and its 10 to 1 the money you have to pay. It only stacks up because they have such big movements during the day to encompass any loss at night.
A night landing at BHX and what you paid for your service.
Add up what it cost BHX. Fire Cat 8 or whatever they are close to that, probably 8-10 fire fighters, 4 or 5 appliances. Air traffic controllers probably 2 or 3, 1 assistant. Handling agent, night staff 1 bloke to drive the van. Cost of the lights being on, hundreds of lights. Plus the blokes to man the fuel bowser in the middle of the night.
Yes i understand that they might have more than you moving at night but its not alot more. Perhaps they do 20 movements maximum in the late night early hours of the morning if that. Compare that to the cost of staying open for those hours and its 10 to 1 the money you have to pay. It only stacks up because they have such big movements during the day to encompass any loss at night.
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I see that the MP for Warwickshire is stating that the new owners would face the same opposition as the last if their plans were along the same lines......I can't post a link at the moment the site is down, sorry. Just caught it.
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Call100
Isn't it a shame that the opposition to the airport comes from the people who benefit the most!
I caught an interview with the said mp a couple of days ago and all he could do was run the place down it made me Wonder if our so called government representative was only thinking of him self and not the people he is supposed to help!!
Big houses and 'I will change the world around me' springs to mind
what is it with these people that they can't see the end of thier own driveways!!
Specialist passenger flights bringing in tourists for the 2012 Olympics it has to be a no brainer lets make the most of this event with [U]all[U] our assets.
Isn't it a shame that the opposition to the airport comes from the people who benefit the most!
I caught an interview with the said mp a couple of days ago and all he could do was run the place down it made me Wonder if our so called government representative was only thinking of him self and not the people he is supposed to help!!
Big houses and 'I will change the world around me' springs to mind
what is it with these people that they can't see the end of thier own driveways!!
Specialist passenger flights bringing in tourists for the 2012 Olympics it has to be a no brainer lets make the most of this event with [U]all[U] our assets.
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Managed to get the link....Coventry Telegraph - News - Coventry News - Flight path warning to Coventry Airport's new bosses
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COVMAN 0523 / Call 100 / Others.........
Don't worry, I have been away Skiing for a week (not flying from Coventry though) God, it all happens when I go away doesn't it !!
You are right in what you say and MP James 'Swisskit' IS one of the problems. He really is a jumped up little tu*d who as you say can't see the end of his drive due to expenses received from us taxpayers and also what some people forget, is that it is NOT JUST Coventry City Council involved, on the other side of the airfield it is Warwick District Council.They are the ones who caused all the problems and the other Nimbys are not from bagington Village but from STONELEIGH village. They are the ones 'James Swisskit' is supporting and he doesn't want to lose his job.
Both councils detest each other, the MP's can't stand each other so how does anybody think that there will be a decision for a new terminal. That thought should be at the back of the line IMHO.
Lets get the 'Milka and Toblerone' crowd up and running, get these beacon slots alive again, get some fuel sold to some incoming GA visitirs to the Oak (two for a tenner) and then jets get the freight train rolling and all the other stuff.
Don't worry, I have been away Skiing for a week (not flying from Coventry though)
God, it all happens when I go away doesn't it !!You are right in what you say and MP James 'Swisskit' IS one of the problems. He really is a jumped up little tu*d who as you say can't see the end of his drive due to expenses received from us taxpayers and also what some people forget, is that it is NOT JUST Coventry City Council involved, on the other side of the airfield it is Warwick District Council.They are the ones who caused all the problems and the other Nimbys are not from bagington Village but from STONELEIGH village. They are the ones 'James Swisskit' is supporting and he doesn't want to lose his job.
Both councils detest each other, the MP's can't stand each other so how does anybody think that there will be a decision for a new terminal. That thought should be at the back of the line IMHO.
Lets get the 'Milka and Toblerone' crowd up and running, get these beacon slots alive again, get some fuel sold to some incoming GA visitirs to the Oak (two for a tenner) and then jets get the freight train rolling and all the other stuff.
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A couple of errors in Nav's post. All of the airport lies within the juristriction of Warwick District Council - the non airport side of Rowley Road is within Coventry as are the sites along Siskin Drive.
Neither Baginton or Stoneleigh are within James Plaskitts constituency they are both in the Kenilworth and Rugby constituency as is the airport. Its the village of Bubbenhall or rather a few vociferous people who live there he is playing up to. As he is also my MP a take comfort from the fact that as a labour MP with one of the smallest majorities in the country the chances of him remaining an MP in a few months time are slim.
Warwick District and Coventry might not have been the best of pals in the past but with Warwick District hoping to met its new housing target by building on the border of Coventry - not on the airport site -there will be favours needed from Coventry. Also significient in this world of politics is that Coventry Council has just left the West Midlands strategic group of councils to form closer links with the councils within Warwickshire.
Neither Baginton or Stoneleigh are within James Plaskitts constituency they are both in the Kenilworth and Rugby constituency as is the airport. Its the village of Bubbenhall or rather a few vociferous people who live there he is playing up to. As he is also my MP a take comfort from the fact that as a labour MP with one of the smallest majorities in the country the chances of him remaining an MP in a few months time are slim.
Warwick District and Coventry might not have been the best of pals in the past but with Warwick District hoping to met its new housing target by building on the border of Coventry - not on the airport site -there will be favours needed from Coventry. Also significient in this world of politics is that Coventry Council has just left the West Midlands strategic group of councils to form closer links with the councils within Warwickshire.
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Thanks CVT Person.....for correcting me.
Typical MP though Swiskitt....changing the borders of his constituency to suit his own ends !!
I knew somebody would know what I was driving at and correct me as sometimes I do talk a load of 'tosh'. My heart is in the right place and I know what I mean but sometimes facts are harder to come by. I hope there is a marriage with CCC and WDC. Maybe they could have a ceremony with a ribbon tied across the runway and get Jean Claude Van BonHomme to do some Aeros to cut it ?
Typical MP though Swiskitt....changing the borders of his constituency to suit his own ends !!
I knew somebody would know what I was driving at and correct me as sometimes I do talk a load of 'tosh'. My heart is in the right place and I know what I mean but sometimes facts are harder to come by. I hope there is a marriage with CCC and WDC. Maybe they could have a ceremony with a ribbon tied across the runway and get Jean Claude Van BonHomme to do some Aeros to cut it ?