DUNDEE
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The CAA defines a Terminal Passenger as a passenger joining or leaving an aircraft at the reporting airport.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport...20Foreword.pdf
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport...20Foreword.pdf
None of the Dundee routes seem to be registered as PSO routes with the EU - unlike many routes to the islands. Being less than 1h30 from both Aberdeen and Edinburgh by either private car or public transport, how come Dundee gets an ongoing Govt subsidy without breaching EU rules ?
Further, using 364 days per year (ie not Xmas) Dundee has an average of just 80 departing passengers per day. Beginning to wonder how essential or worthwhile Dundee as a commercial passenger airport really is...
Further, using 364 days per year (ie not Xmas) Dundee has an average of just 80 departing passengers per day. Beginning to wonder how essential or worthwhile Dundee as a commercial passenger airport really is...
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 24th Jul 2012 at 08:05.
PSO is supporting the service rather than the operation of the airport, which is what HIAL do - as permitted under section 34 of the Civil Aviation Act 1982 (as they say on their website).
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Loganair Withdraws Dundee Services from December
Home | HIAL Group | Media Centre | What's Hot and Latest News | Loganair Withdraws Dundee Services from December
Wednesday 24 October 2012
Loganair has today announced it is to withdraw its scheduled services from Dundee Airport from early December in response to declining passenger demand.
Services from Dundee to Belfast City and Birmingham will cease on Sunday 2 December. Passengers will be offered alternative flights through Loganair's franchise partner flybe, or a full refund.
Loganair will retain its aviation engineering base at the city's airport. There will be no compulsory redundancies as a result of today's announcement.
Home | HIAL Group | Media Centre | What's Hot and Latest News | Loganair Withdraws Dundee Services from December
Wednesday 24 October 2012
Loganair has today announced it is to withdraw its scheduled services from Dundee Airport from early December in response to declining passenger demand.
Services from Dundee to Belfast City and Birmingham will cease on Sunday 2 December. Passengers will be offered alternative flights through Loganair's franchise partner flybe, or a full refund.
Loganair will retain its aviation engineering base at the city's airport. There will be no compulsory redundancies as a result of today's announcement.
Given the existing non-trivial subsidy, how sustainable is Dundee as an airport once the Belfast and Birmingham routes are lost, particularly now that Edinburgh is under separate ownership from Glasgow and likely to be a little more nimble on its toes compared to the time under BAA.
From the 2011 CAA stats, passengers number for each route were
London City - 31,632
Belfast City - 10,071
Birmingham - 18,215
Jersey (seasonal) - 1,813
In effect, Dundee loses approx 46% of its commercial passengers on 2nd Dec. I imagine also that the Jersey route is heavily leisure centric and thus more difficult to justify any form of Govt subsidy.
In particular, it would seem that the loss of the Birmingham and Belfast passengers may necessitate a (slightly) increased Govt subsidy to keep Dundee in its current state.
From the 2011 CAA stats, passengers number for each route were
London City - 31,632
Belfast City - 10,071
Birmingham - 18,215
Jersey (seasonal) - 1,813
In effect, Dundee loses approx 46% of its commercial passengers on 2nd Dec. I imagine also that the Jersey route is heavily leisure centric and thus more difficult to justify any form of Govt subsidy.
In particular, it would seem that the loss of the Birmingham and Belfast passengers may necessitate a (slightly) increased Govt subsidy to keep Dundee in its current state.
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DUN to BHD
The BHD has been under pressure. Taking these figures for BHD to DUN that is an average of 28 pax per day, 14 return flights. Ok I know they don't fly every day to BHD but even with subsidy it can't pay for itself
I am sure it is annoying for passengers living close to or wish to travel to DUN.
Going by previous post when it was £78 for a single flight, £160 for a return you can still get EZY to EDI for about £55 return
Sad to see regional airports decline but that's a fact of life. Subsidy would be better elsewhere in Scotland
I am sure it is annoying for passengers living close to or wish to travel to DUN.
Going by previous post when it was £78 for a single flight, £160 for a return you can still get EZY to EDI for about £55 return
Sad to see regional airports decline but that's a fact of life. Subsidy would be better elsewhere in Scotland
Last edited by GAZMO; 25th Oct 2012 at 21:05.
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Tbh, I think there's probably plenty demand for air travel in the DND catchment. OK Dundee itself is not particularly well off, but many surrounding areas in Perthshire, NE Fife and Angus could probably provide pax and there is inbound demand to St Andrews/Carnoustie etc. The problem is that the demand is probably quite price sensitive and leaks to EDI/ABZ/GLA very easily. However, cause DND is limited to smaller aircraft flights are always likely to be expensive. I think if DND had a longer runway and other facilities to handle larger aircraft like A320/738s then it could do quite well and I suspect FR/EZY would be sniffing around. Unfortunately that's not going to happen.
The way things are going I do wonder how sustainable the commercial aviation side at DND is.
The way things are going I do wonder how sustainable the commercial aviation side at DND is.
Last edited by nef; 25th Oct 2012 at 21:21.
Wikipedia suggests the airport is loosing £2,000,000 rising to £2,600,000 per year. If this is spread over the remaining 28,000 LCY passengers it roughly equates to £92 per passenger ?
Whose £2.6M is it that is being spent on subsidising the airport and routes and has the figure quoted risen or fallen?
bb
Whose £2.6M is it that is being spent on subsidising the airport and routes and has the figure quoted risen or fallen?
bb
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HIAL run the airport under subsidy from the Scottish Parliament.
As I mentioned on the FlyBe thread, the harsh law of economics is at play here. Edinburgh is an hour down the road where you can get a wide choice of much cheaper flights. Hardly anyone used the route because simply it was too expensive.
Smithy
As I mentioned on the FlyBe thread, the harsh law of economics is at play here. Edinburgh is an hour down the road where you can get a wide choice of much cheaper flights. Hardly anyone used the route because simply it was too expensive.
Smithy
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I was wondering if combining Dundee flights with other stops could help to maintain services at DND?
For example, for routings between DND and the southern part of England or Ireland for example, could a flight originating somewhere further north (eg. Inverness or Aberdeen) or stopping off somewhere further south (eg. Glasgow / Newcastle) add sufficient passengers / yield to make the service more viable?
I realise that the costs of additional stops would increase fuel costs, airport fees etc - but does anyone know if this has been considered or even tried before at DND?
For example, for routings between DND and the southern part of England or Ireland for example, could a flight originating somewhere further north (eg. Inverness or Aberdeen) or stopping off somewhere further south (eg. Glasgow / Newcastle) add sufficient passengers / yield to make the service more viable?
I realise that the costs of additional stops would increase fuel costs, airport fees etc - but does anyone know if this has been considered or even tried before at DND?
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From IJM's post I think it would imply a flight that would not be profitable running from Aberdeen (or somewhere else in Scotland like Wick) alone, might be if it could load extra passengers from Dundee, notwithstanding extra landing fees, fuel and time penalty.
Having just written that and re-read, I can't think of any viable example!.
DJ6 - Perhaps trains were much poorer then or there was a connection from a flight arriving at Edinburgh? But obviously the route didn't survive.
Having just written that and re-read, I can't think of any viable example!.
DJ6 - Perhaps trains were much poorer then or there was a connection from a flight arriving at Edinburgh? But obviously the route didn't survive.
Last edited by johnnychips; 26th Oct 2012 at 23:21.
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If you go back 25 to 30 years I think you will find that there was a Dundee - Carlisle - Heathrow service initially operated by Air Ecosse SD360 and latterly by Euroair HS748.
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On May 18th 1966 an Autair HS748 flew a surprise proving flight to Dundee from Blackpool. Only hours before, the town council voted to authorise completion of negotiations with British Eagle for twice daily flights to Abbotsinch.
Autair then announced their intention to launch a Luton service so the council then backed Autair and dropped British Eagle.
Autair was awarded a licence in 1967 after a fight with British Eagle.
As Dundee at that time was still a grass airfield and suffered from water-logging the service started in 1968 from Leuchars.
Autair then announced their intention to launch a Luton service so the council then backed Autair and dropped British Eagle.
Autair was awarded a licence in 1967 after a fight with British Eagle.
As Dundee at that time was still a grass airfield and suffered from water-logging the service started in 1968 from Leuchars.