SHANNON
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Antrim
Posts: 1,601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BE ran BHX-SNN for several years, NOC and SNN manage to co-exist and both have grown this year. Scotland is (correct me if wrong) without a link to the west of Ireland once EIR pull out.
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,455
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Glasgow did not last because of the competition from Aer Lingus' Edinbrugh link. Since there is no longer competition then there is an open market for the route.
Would BE not be intrested in actually transferring the route from Knock to Shannon? My guess would be the passenger numbers would be higher, especially if passengers are allowed to connect on T/A flights.
Would BE not be intrested in actually transferring the route from Knock to Shannon? My guess would be the passenger numbers would be higher, especially if passengers are allowed to connect on T/A flights.
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: London, UK & Europe
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And spend 2-3 hours waiting between flights when you can do it at DUB in 70-90 miniutes.
Guess SNN have learned their first lesson....it will be FR who will take up some or all of them and have the airport where they want them.
If EIR were generating such transfer traffic they would not be closing.
Guess SNN have learned their first lesson....it will be FR who will take up some or all of them and have the airport where they want them.
If EIR were generating such transfer traffic they would not be closing.
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,455
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And spend 2-3 hours waiting between flights when you can do it at DUB in 70-90 miniutes.
Guess SNN have learned their first lesson....it will be FR who will take up some or all of them and have the airport where they want them.
If EIR were generating such transfer traffic they would not be closing.
Guess SNN have learned their first lesson....it will be FR who will take up some or all of them and have the airport where they want them.
If EIR were generating such transfer traffic they would not be closing.
And how do you know that the T/A transfers were gaining bad traffic, from what I heard the transferring traffic was actually quite high!
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Look up.
Posts: 328
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
T/A flights landed around 6am and MAN + BHX both departed just before 7am so transfer time of well under an hour. Connections also offered to LHR at 8.50am with a surprising uptake.
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Blackpool
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm afraid this was always on the cards once shannon let Ryanair in on Manchester - it's likely ryanair will pick
Up Birmingham and Edinburgh at least - Bristol May not be so attractive given they operate it out of knock but as you said knock and shannon both have co existed on the same services for years only real overlap is galway so plenty big enough market for both to have the same services
Up Birmingham and Edinburgh at least - Bristol May not be so attractive given they operate it out of knock but as you said knock and shannon both have co existed on the same services for years only real overlap is galway so plenty big enough market for both to have the same services
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 2,782
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If the peak (celtic tiger)Ryanair operation ex Shannon is considered, it is from this range of destinations that FR will choose it's future ones. Very short sighted of SNN management not to deter FR from aiming for RE on UK routes. A very short term approach.
As Dublin expands SNN was a key opportunity for transatlantic feed for EI from RE UK routes. We can put paid to that...
As Dublin expands SNN was a key opportunity for transatlantic feed for EI from RE UK routes. We can put paid to that...
Very short sighted of SNN management not to deter FR from aiming for RE on UK routes. A very short term approach.
I'm afraid this was always on the cards once shannon let Ryanair in on Manchester
The Dublin/London City route is an example of this.
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,621
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Words of wisdom. They should appear on the top of every thread in Airlines, Airports and Routes - this would also cut down the number of ill-informed posts.
If an airline is willing to pay full tariff and if an airport is not slot-constrained, there is in reality very little that an airport management can do to stop a determined airline (Ryanair being a prime example, whether chasing Stobart out of Shannon, chasing Wizz out of Cork, or further afield going head-to-head with Vueling in Brussels and Rome).
A question to those excitable armchair generals berating airports for "letting Airline X in" and thus upsetting the applecart: do you genuinely believe that the airports sought out this unsustainable competition, that Brussels Airport said "right, we've just won a Vueling base, now let's persuade Ryanair to come in and compete on half their routes", or even that Shannon said, "Ok, we have a twice daily Manchester service with transatlantic connectivity, let's invite Ryanair in to fly the route too"? Do you really understand so little about airline/airport decisions (and Ryanair in particular)?
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,455
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ryanair would probably be paying full fees, Shannon would not cut deals to airlines that fly on a route already operated by another Airline. Id say its the only flight FR are actually paying shannon to fly on.
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Dublin
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Confirmation from Stobart.
Stobart Air pulling plug on Shannon operations | The Clare Herald
However FR do increase MAN to 10 weekly next April.
Stobart Air pulling plug on Shannon operations | The Clare Herald
However FR do increase MAN to 10 weekly next April.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 2,782
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'Words of wisdom'
Cyrano, I take your points and I realise that it is a completely free market the carriers can fly on which routes the choose in Europe where airports are not slot constrained. However, there is a relationship between supplier and customer, hence, it is perfectly reasonable that as part of negotiations the airport could have said it is our strategic goal to make SNN a connecting point on 1 ticket from various destinations already in place. Ie BHX MAN and BRS to the US.
Of course they can't contractually agree to this but in the spirit of working together we have a gentlemans agreement. Equally, SNN have provided some level of incentive to FR, they knew the consequences of this. Like before it will be only FR available to most all UK and european routes. It is short sighted, short term on the part of the airport to incentivise the expansion of FR. Like other posters have advised, what FR contribute to airports is the square route of very little.
We could say that BFS manage well in this regard, in a fiercely competitive position with a competing airport up the road, it doesn't have FR in. MOL has said, and I've heard him say it with my own ears, 'we can't get a deal at BFS on our terms'. BFS get a much more sustainable return on their business than SNN do, sustainability is what counts. Incidentally he says that BHD is only constrained by runway not charges!!!
So good luck to SNN, and FR, but big picture is that when things are not in FR's favour or they don't get what they want, they cut back and the airport will have to yield or lose. Will EIR be back, unlikely this time.
EI- bud
Cyrano, I take your points and I realise that it is a completely free market the carriers can fly on which routes the choose in Europe where airports are not slot constrained. However, there is a relationship between supplier and customer, hence, it is perfectly reasonable that as part of negotiations the airport could have said it is our strategic goal to make SNN a connecting point on 1 ticket from various destinations already in place. Ie BHX MAN and BRS to the US.
Of course they can't contractually agree to this but in the spirit of working together we have a gentlemans agreement. Equally, SNN have provided some level of incentive to FR, they knew the consequences of this. Like before it will be only FR available to most all UK and european routes. It is short sighted, short term on the part of the airport to incentivise the expansion of FR. Like other posters have advised, what FR contribute to airports is the square route of very little.
We could say that BFS manage well in this regard, in a fiercely competitive position with a competing airport up the road, it doesn't have FR in. MOL has said, and I've heard him say it with my own ears, 'we can't get a deal at BFS on our terms'. BFS get a much more sustainable return on their business than SNN do, sustainability is what counts. Incidentally he says that BHD is only constrained by runway not charges!!!
So good luck to SNN, and FR, but big picture is that when things are not in FR's favour or they don't get what they want, they cut back and the airport will have to yield or lose. Will EIR be back, unlikely this time.
EI- bud
Last edited by EI-BUD; 28th Nov 2014 at 10:14. Reason: Typo
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 379
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Very good post EI-BUD. I think one difference between BFS and SNN is the realistic size of the catchment areas of the two airports. SNN's catchment is much smaller so they are in less of a position to be able to pick and choose their airlines. I think many at SNN have an unrealistic expectation of the kind of pax numbers that can be sustainably achieved there, hence the repeated chasing after FR.