SHANNON
Join Date: Nov 2014
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I genuinely think it's simply a case of too many airports serving the same services in a relatively small market place - eh Birmingham has the same population as Ireland yet - we have services like Paris operating from cork Dublin and Shannon less than two hours away from each other - There's a proven market for UK services from all the airports given the diaspora links and prob sun services - the inbound European services appear to be challenging from regional airports especially with all the major growth recently at Dublin
There's also a larger inbound market on the west coast of Ireland. Alot of people like visiting the Cliff of Moher, Galway, etc, whereas Birmingham is not as much of a tourist attraction.
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In fairness, this "Too many Airports on west coast" has been WELL realised at this stage. We all know it. Birmingham has a population of 1,069,000, Ireland has 4,500,000. Bit inaccurate? Yes, there's a proven market for UK routes, yet there no Scottish route in Kerry, Knock or Shannon.
There's also a larger inbound market on the west coast of Ireland. Alot of people like visiting the Cliff of Moher, Galway, etc, whereas Birmingham is not as much of a tourist attraction.
There's also a larger inbound market on the west coast of Ireland. Alot of people like visiting the Cliff of Moher, Galway, etc, whereas Birmingham is not as much of a tourist attraction.
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The west coast (Kerry, Shannon, Knock) has not been without a Scottish route for 25 years! Now this summer its without one. The Edinburgh route was very successful from Shannon and was operated Daily on an ATR72 aircraft, along with a 3x weekly Prestwick service from Knock. Now there's none.
Also, there's room for quite a few year round UK routes, 12 weekly transatlantic flights for the worst part of the winter (JAN-MAR), and Europeans.
In my opinion, the West region is most underserved in terms of European Routes. Routes to Cities like Madrid, Lisbon, Frankfurt, Dusseldorf, Cologne, Rome, Amsterdam, Brussels are all possible and Sustainable but they aren't happening.
Also, there's room for quite a few year round UK routes, 12 weekly transatlantic flights for the worst part of the winter (JAN-MAR), and Europeans.
In my opinion, the West region is most underserved in terms of European Routes. Routes to Cities like Madrid, Lisbon, Frankfurt, Dusseldorf, Cologne, Rome, Amsterdam, Brussels are all possible and Sustainable but they aren't happening.
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The west coast (Kerry, Shannon, Knock) has not been without a Scottish route for 25 years! Now this summer its without one. The Edinburgh route was very successful from Shannon and was operated Daily on an ATR72 aircraft, along with a 3x weekly Prestwick service from Knock. Now there's none.
Also, there's room for quite a few year round UK routes, 12 weekly transatlantic flights for the worst part of the winter (JAN-MAR), and Europeans.
In my opinion, the West region is most underserved in terms of European Routes. Routes to Cities like Madrid, Lisbon, Frankfurt, Dusseldorf, Cologne, Rome, Amsterdam, Brussels are all possible and Sustainable but they aren't happening.
Also, there's room for quite a few year round UK routes, 12 weekly transatlantic flights for the worst part of the winter (JAN-MAR), and Europeans.
In my opinion, the West region is most underserved in terms of European Routes. Routes to Cities like Madrid, Lisbon, Frankfurt, Dusseldorf, Cologne, Rome, Amsterdam, Brussels are all possible and Sustainable but they aren't happening.
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I'm not entirely sure of the answer, but these are what I'd imagine to be some of the reasons :
1. Very few Airlines will touch Cork and Shannon due to Aer Lingus and Ryanair who will frighten them off.
2. The high airport fees in Cork and previously in Shannon.
3. Lack of Awareness of routes and airports. Many people all over Ireland (slightly ignorantly) think Dublin straight away and book with only Aer Lingus and Ryanair. It's alot of the problem in Ireland, lots of people don't look around and compare. We are no longer in a country of government monopolies.
4. As you pointed out earlier, the sheer around of airports on the west coast. In the republic, there is 1 airport on the east coast and 5 on the west coast (inc cork) and there was previously 7! There is no need for Donegal or Kerry airports, the only thing keeping them going is the PSO contract. All of Donegal is very near Derry Airport which has more services and all of Kerry is very near Shannon and Cork.
If anyone wants to add to the above please.
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Originally Posted by AerRyan
Birmingham has a population of 1,069,000
That's the golden question isn't it?
I'm not entirely sure of the answer, but these are what I'd imagine to be some of the reasons :
1. Very few Airlines will touch Cork and Shannon due to Aer Lingus and Ryanair who will frighten them off.
2. The high airport fees in Cork and previously in Shannon.
3. Lack of Awareness of routes and airports. Many people all over Ireland (slightly ignorantly) think Dublin straight away and book with only Aer Lingus and Ryanair. It's alot of the problem in Ireland, lots of people don't look around and compare. We are no longer in a country of government monopolies.
4. As you pointed out earlier, the sheer around of airports on the west coast. In the republic, there is 1 airport on the east coast and 5 on the west coast (inc cork) and there was previously 7! There is no need for Donegal or Kerry airports, the only thing keeping them going is the PSO contract. All of Donegal is very near Derry Airport which has more services and all of Kerry is very near Shannon and Cork.
If anyone wants to add to the above please.
I'm not entirely sure of the answer, but these are what I'd imagine to be some of the reasons :
1. Very few Airlines will touch Cork and Shannon due to Aer Lingus and Ryanair who will frighten them off.
2. The high airport fees in Cork and previously in Shannon.
3. Lack of Awareness of routes and airports. Many people all over Ireland (slightly ignorantly) think Dublin straight away and book with only Aer Lingus and Ryanair. It's alot of the problem in Ireland, lots of people don't look around and compare. We are no longer in a country of government monopolies.
4. As you pointed out earlier, the sheer around of airports on the west coast. In the republic, there is 1 airport on the east coast and 5 on the west coast (inc cork) and there was previously 7! There is no need for Donegal or Kerry airports, the only thing keeping them going is the PSO contract. All of Donegal is very near Derry Airport which has more services and all of Kerry is very near Shannon and Cork.
If anyone wants to add to the above please.
There's no conspiracy against the regionals, the problem is it's cheaper and often more convenient for onward connections for people to bus up to DUB and fly from there. SNN, ORK, KOC etc will never support the 20 something flights DUB has to LHR each day
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Is there any evidence that airport fees at ORK and SNN are, in reality, high or "uncompetitive"? Since the seperation of SNN what has actually been delivered? Instead of new airlines and routes Stobart actually left.
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AerRyan,
In relation to your comments;
1. I think you can make that just Ryanair, I think them alone are deterrent for new entrants into the Irish market. Examples; easyJet, Wizz, and to some extent Eir.
2. I actually think higher fees at Cork could be the right approach, ie not giving sweet heart deals may deliver a more sustainable business. Attracting the Prague route is an example and retention of Aer Lingus Regional ( unlike the Shannon base), is likely as a result of not giving FR the deal they want. The Airport at Cork prob collecting s collecting a more sustainable rate from fr and fr will pay this to keep EI in check.
3. Lack of awareness? How do you claim this? The frequency is low on most routes, and the timings mag not suit potential customers... Equally as somebody else has said DUB is easily accessible from Cork and that coupled with high frequency choice of destinations make dub attractive option.
4. I'd agree about the number of airports, many are not sustainable though those of scale like NOC in my view adds significantly to the Region.. The smaller ones are nice to have, but CFN, WAT, KIR are hardly sustainable and unlikely to grow to a scale that will secure their long term... Ldy in my view top of the list for wasting tax payers money. But political interest will likely give it a lifeline for some time to come...
In relation to your comments;
1. I think you can make that just Ryanair, I think them alone are deterrent for new entrants into the Irish market. Examples; easyJet, Wizz, and to some extent Eir.
2. I actually think higher fees at Cork could be the right approach, ie not giving sweet heart deals may deliver a more sustainable business. Attracting the Prague route is an example and retention of Aer Lingus Regional ( unlike the Shannon base), is likely as a result of not giving FR the deal they want. The Airport at Cork prob collecting s collecting a more sustainable rate from fr and fr will pay this to keep EI in check.
3. Lack of awareness? How do you claim this? The frequency is low on most routes, and the timings mag not suit potential customers... Equally as somebody else has said DUB is easily accessible from Cork and that coupled with high frequency choice of destinations make dub attractive option.
4. I'd agree about the number of airports, many are not sustainable though those of scale like NOC in my view adds significantly to the Region.. The smaller ones are nice to have, but CFN, WAT, KIR are hardly sustainable and unlikely to grow to a scale that will secure their long term... Ldy in my view top of the list for wasting tax payers money. But political interest will likely give it a lifeline for some time to come...
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The loss of the EIR base was due to the loss of MAN. After they lost MAN the profitability fell to a break even and the left SNN. Stupid mistake by the management I think we will all agree.
Also keep in mind, 1 month of Prague was just chopped in Cork due to the DAA refusing to advertise it to a reasonable standard. CSA has went ahead and advertised it by themselves with the help of Prague airport.
Anyway in far better news, Aer Lingus will soon return an A320 to the Heathrow route in Shannon.
Also keep in mind, 1 month of Prague was just chopped in Cork due to the DAA refusing to advertise it to a reasonable standard. CSA has went ahead and advertised it by themselves with the help of Prague airport.
Anyway in far better news, Aer Lingus will soon return an A320 to the Heathrow route in Shannon.
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Also keep in mind, 1 month of Prague was just chopped in Cork due to the DAA refusing to advertise it to a reasonable standard. CSA has went ahead and advertised it by themselves with the help of Prague airport.
Is there any evidence that airport fees at ORK and SNN are, in reality, high or "uncompetitive"? Since the seperation of SNN what has actually been delivered? Instead of new airlines and routes Stobart actually left.
In my opinion, the West region is most underserved in terms of European Routes. Routes to Cities like Madrid, Lisbon, Frankfurt, Dusseldorf, Cologne, Rome, Amsterdam, Brussels are all possible and Sustainable but they aren't happening.
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Nothing!
All those cities have being served and have being axed or still operating.
No!
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That's great news regarding the Heathrow and lanzarote capacity increases hopefully this will continue into next summer with new routes aer lingus can have a very successful operation at Shannon if they continue their commitment on another note now that the cityjet operation is ending in Cardiff could we see a return of the stobart\ei UK routes to Bristol and Edinburgh
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Ryanair cancelling fuertaventura and now gran canaria also from Shannon for this winter - Tenerife however will go year round in place of fuertaventura - citing aircraft shortages
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As you said yes Fuerteventura is being replaced by Tenerife for the winter season, better idea, probably a larger load on that route. I reported this around 2 months ago though, it's nothing new. The Irish Times published an article yesterday, fairly late with the times.
Also I haven't a clue where this lack of aircraft came out of, they aren't cutting any capacity and they in fact have room for the Fuerteventura route to operate anyway (due to loss of 1 BVA rotation).
Whats more significant to note is that Poitiers will be discontinued from the 2nd of September. It was previosuly bookable until November previously.
Hopefully a better French route will come next year.
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Yep, they did them in FEB/MAR also. This time around theres 6x return flights compared to 2x the last time so Id say they did pretty well. Bit of PR for them this time on FB ("Shannon Airport" page, "Friends of Shannon Airport", "Shannon airport news" and "The Clare Herald") twitter (Ryanair) and elsewhere online (Ryanair, The Clare Herald etc)
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Shannon looks to gain a few benefits from the IAG sale providing all goes well.
These are possible outcomes I've seen highlighted in various reports, from News articles and IAG shareholders
*Increased loads and capacity on the existing Aer Lingus services to Boston and New York.
*Increased connectivity and capacity for Philadelphia with American Airlines.
*Considerations of enhancing the existing British Airways operations at Shannon (LCY-SNN-JFK) including taking on pax at SNN.
*Working with tourism intrests in the west for route development at Shannon.
*Possible return of connectivity on Transatlantic flights. (I think this translates as the UK routes with Tatl transfer pax)
*Guarantee of 7 years on LHR route.
*Possible new Sun Holiday route.
That's all I remember from my casual news article reading over the past few days.
Interesting to say the least
These are possible outcomes I've seen highlighted in various reports, from News articles and IAG shareholders
*Increased loads and capacity on the existing Aer Lingus services to Boston and New York.
*Increased connectivity and capacity for Philadelphia with American Airlines.
*Considerations of enhancing the existing British Airways operations at Shannon (LCY-SNN-JFK) including taking on pax at SNN.
*Working with tourism intrests in the west for route development at Shannon.
*Possible return of connectivity on Transatlantic flights. (I think this translates as the UK routes with Tatl transfer pax)
*Guarantee of 7 years on LHR route.
*Possible new Sun Holiday route.
That's all I remember from my casual news article reading over the past few days.
Interesting to say the least
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*Guarantee of 7 years on LHR route.
Interested to hear the press conference with Willie Walsh yesterday, his wording on the 7 year guarantee was very carefully worded. From memory what he said was, there would be a 7 year guarantee, made up of first 5 years as a given, and the balance of 2 years based on the assumption that charges at Heathrow remained the same as current rates .. which sounded like a very subjective item. Nonetheless, very welcome developments no doubt, and it would be nice to see Shannon reaping any potential benefits.
EI-BUD
Interested to hear the press conference with Willie Walsh yesterday, his wording on the 7 year guarantee was very carefully worded. From memory what he said was, there would be a 7 year guarantee, made up of first 5 years as a given, and the balance of 2 years based on the assumption that charges at Heathrow remained the same as current rates .. which sounded like a very subjective item. Nonetheless, very welcome developments no doubt, and it would be nice to see Shannon reaping any potential benefits.
EI-BUD
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Interested to hear the press conference with Willie Walsh yesterday, his wording on the 7 year guarantee was very carefully worded. From memory what he said was, there would be a 7 year guarantee, made up of first 5 years as a given, and the balance of 2 years based on the assumption that charges at Heathrow remained the same as current rates .. which sounded like a very subjective item. Nonetheless, very welcome developments no doubt, and it would be nice to see Shannon reaping any potential benefits.