EDINBURGH
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I think the second flight has often appeared late, perhaps the season length has yet to be decided. Wouldnt be surprised if it gets switched to IAD like the others, although all the insecurity around EDI's potential owners now may put them off changing anything.
MAN or LGW owners will presumably not want it to detract from the much larger and busier bases.
MAN or LGW owners will presumably not want it to detract from the much larger and busier bases.
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What's happened to the 2nd daily CO/UA next year? Only seems to be the morning UA36/37 bookable on the website?
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UA revealed that they are going to drop a second daily flight to EWR from MAN and DUB and replace it with a flight to IAD, so still 2 flights in the summer, with one to EWR and one to IAD.
There was no mention of EDI or Scotland at all in this press release, which makes me think they have no interest in another route from EDI. I do hope they bring back the CO109 (or some incarnation of it) but as others say, it still isn't available to book even though the CO37 is there well into summer 2012.
United Continental Holdings, Inc. - Investor Relations - News
There was no mention of EDI or Scotland at all in this press release, which makes me think they have no interest in another route from EDI. I do hope they bring back the CO109 (or some incarnation of it) but as others say, it still isn't available to book even though the CO37 is there well into summer 2012.
United Continental Holdings, Inc. - Investor Relations - News
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Given the slot constraints at EWR and the fact that UA and CO were both due to take delivery of new 787s in 2012, perhaps CO37 will be upgraded to a B764 or B772 for summer 2012? This would also depend on suitable stands being made available at EDI (see my other posts on the current PCN limitations at EDI and the potential solutions to that issue).
Given the delays to B788 deliveries and therefore the uncertainty about when B764s or B772s might be available to be cascaded to other routes, and given the uncertainty about the availability of suitable stands at EDI, perhaps its not surprising that UA/CO are delaying announcing a second flight from Edinburgh next summer.
(I'm assuming that EDI would not be a priority for shiny new B788s but I could be wrong).
Given the delays to B788 deliveries and therefore the uncertainty about when B764s or B772s might be available to be cascaded to other routes, and given the uncertainty about the availability of suitable stands at EDI, perhaps its not surprising that UA/CO are delaying announcing a second flight from Edinburgh next summer.
(I'm assuming that EDI would not be a priority for shiny new B788s but I could be wrong).
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I doubt EDI will see any UA 787s, I heard they will be used primarily on their trans Pacific routes, however it's still a while yet until they will actually be flying with UA.
I know economy is more often verging on, if not totally full, but is J class a consistent earner for them from EDI? UA won't be willing to send over a 777 with 50 odd seats up front if a 757 with 16 isn't being filled up on a regular basis.
The 767, perhaps would be a good aircraft during the summer if they do not bring back the double daily. It has 25 BF seats, so a good compromise, as well as the additional Y class seats. Delta managed a 767 on a daily basis, so the terminal can cope. One thing though, I beleive the 767 cabins are not as modern as the others, especially in BF with no lie flat seats, which is pretty poor by today's standards.
I know economy is more often verging on, if not totally full, but is J class a consistent earner for them from EDI? UA won't be willing to send over a 777 with 50 odd seats up front if a 757 with 16 isn't being filled up on a regular basis.
The 767, perhaps would be a good aircraft during the summer if they do not bring back the double daily. It has 25 BF seats, so a good compromise, as well as the additional Y class seats. Delta managed a 767 on a daily basis, so the terminal can cope. One thing though, I beleive the 767 cabins are not as modern as the others, especially in BF with no lie flat seats, which is pretty poor by today's standards.
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Some of the United B772s are 36F, 0C, 89Y+ and 223Y (total 348) so one of these might be better suited to EDI-EWR rather than 2 x B752s per day if EDI could accommodate it?
The Delta B763s were able to fit onto one of two stands in the cul-de-sac on the main apron (2 and 4) but these stands are currently too narrow for a B763 with winglets and all of the United B763s are being retrofitted with these. The CO B764s are too long / too wide for the cul-de-sac stands (they have a wider wingspan as well as being longer than a B763).
Possible solutions for the B764 or B772 would be to strengthen the PCNs of the links between taxiway alpha and the SE apron and/or making diagonal stands available on the north-west facing part of the main apron (where BA and BD LHR flights, amongst others, currently park). I'm not sure whether or not it would be feasible to widen stands 2 and/or 4 to accommodate a B763 with winglets. The adjacent stands are heavily utilised and if they were shrunk in size it may create another set of problems trying to accommodate these flights.
One of EDI's many shortcomings at present is a chronic shortage of apron space. There is a current NOTAM stating that runway 12/30 is closed until 23:00 on 12th February due to "Aircraft Parked on block 33" (i.e. the turning area at the SE end of that runway). There was a recent incident (31st October) where an A332 flying a trooping flight was diverted to Leuchars whilst on approach to runway 24 at EDI. It got as far as Musselburgh and, instead of turning onto finals, was vectored down the Firth of Forth towards Crail and then to Leuchars. It had apparently been allocated Stand 17 at EDI because block 33, where they normally park the trooping flights, was already full as was the cargo apron. Stand 17 can only be used when stands 16, 18 and 19 are not in use so perhaps the diversion was because stand 17 was blocked by other aircraft on these stands?
How does Edinburgh hope to attract further long-haul flights when it suffers from such a chronic shortage of apron space? It’s not just the quantity of stands that is a problem. The sizing of each stand is so tight that even B752Ws are difficult to accommodate if there are delays / early arrivals as nearly all of the stands at EDI are too small for them.
The Delta B763s were able to fit onto one of two stands in the cul-de-sac on the main apron (2 and 4) but these stands are currently too narrow for a B763 with winglets and all of the United B763s are being retrofitted with these. The CO B764s are too long / too wide for the cul-de-sac stands (they have a wider wingspan as well as being longer than a B763).
Possible solutions for the B764 or B772 would be to strengthen the PCNs of the links between taxiway alpha and the SE apron and/or making diagonal stands available on the north-west facing part of the main apron (where BA and BD LHR flights, amongst others, currently park). I'm not sure whether or not it would be feasible to widen stands 2 and/or 4 to accommodate a B763 with winglets. The adjacent stands are heavily utilised and if they were shrunk in size it may create another set of problems trying to accommodate these flights.
One of EDI's many shortcomings at present is a chronic shortage of apron space. There is a current NOTAM stating that runway 12/30 is closed until 23:00 on 12th February due to "Aircraft Parked on block 33" (i.e. the turning area at the SE end of that runway). There was a recent incident (31st October) where an A332 flying a trooping flight was diverted to Leuchars whilst on approach to runway 24 at EDI. It got as far as Musselburgh and, instead of turning onto finals, was vectored down the Firth of Forth towards Crail and then to Leuchars. It had apparently been allocated Stand 17 at EDI because block 33, where they normally park the trooping flights, was already full as was the cargo apron. Stand 17 can only be used when stands 16, 18 and 19 are not in use so perhaps the diversion was because stand 17 was blocked by other aircraft on these stands?
How does Edinburgh hope to attract further long-haul flights when it suffers from such a chronic shortage of apron space? It’s not just the quantity of stands that is a problem. The sizing of each stand is so tight that even B752Ws are difficult to accommodate if there are delays / early arrivals as nearly all of the stands at EDI are too small for them.
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Flights 108/109 now back in the system. B752, operating to/from EWR (May to October), so doesn't look like EDI will be joining MAN and DUB on the Washington run. But it's good to see EDI's UA summer schedules back to 2 x daily.
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That is great news, it was starting to look dubious, wasn't it? Especially as a lot of people are starting to book summer holidays right now.
I would have preferred an IAD route too, but EWR twice is better than EWR once!
I would have preferred an IAD route too, but EWR twice is better than EWR once!
A new route for EDI?
any idea what kind of A/C would be used?
BBC News - Scotland in direct flight talks with China
any idea what kind of A/C would be used?
BBC News - Scotland in direct flight talks with China
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Air China Beijing - Edinburgh
They are phasing out their 767s and so I'd guess an A330 - at under 5000 nm on a great circle track both the -200 and -300 could handle it easily.
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Reality check, PEK-LHR is once daily on an A330-200. How long in comparable market growth for EDI to get to that level?
This is just show boating by El Presidente as wee Eck leads with the gob as ever. Talking about the next big thing is easier than sorting out the mundane and every day.
This is just show boating by El Presidente as wee Eck leads with the gob as ever. Talking about the next big thing is easier than sorting out the mundane and every day.
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Given that BAA are selling EDI and retaining GLA, it's obvious that they
will not be pushing EDI for flights that will be detrimental to them in future.
China flights - or any new long haul flights - will be hotly competed for by new EDI owners. Meanwhile don't hold your breath for EDI.
will not be pushing EDI for flights that will be detrimental to them in future.
China flights - or any new long haul flights - will be hotly competed for by new EDI owners. Meanwhile don't hold your breath for EDI.
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S1E - plus a daily BA 747 and nobody is suggesting that the Edinburgh service would be daily. More than likely once a week and if demand justifies then the frequency can be increased.
Oh, and why the need to insert gratuitous insults about our First Minister when he is getting out there and working hard in Scotland's best interests.
NS - would you like to elaborate on your comment about "big projects that someone else is paying for". If you are suggesting what I think you are then you should be made aware that Scotland more than pays its own way in the UK, so much so that we have subsidised the rest of the UK for the last 5 consecutive years (source: G.E.R.S, as produced by the UK Government's own Office of National Statistics)
Joe, good point so let's hope that the sale goes through quickly. Doubt if BAA are involved in the China talks - probably just government-to-government wish list stuff so far but the number of Chinese tourists coming to Scotland year round does look like it might well justify it.
Oh, and why the need to insert gratuitous insults about our First Minister when he is getting out there and working hard in Scotland's best interests.
NS - would you like to elaborate on your comment about "big projects that someone else is paying for". If you are suggesting what I think you are then you should be made aware that Scotland more than pays its own way in the UK, so much so that we have subsidised the rest of the UK for the last 5 consecutive years (source: G.E.R.S, as produced by the UK Government's own Office of National Statistics)
Joe, good point so let's hope that the sale goes through quickly. Doubt if BAA are involved in the China talks - probably just government-to-government wish list stuff so far but the number of Chinese tourists coming to Scotland year round does look like it might well justify it.
Last edited by theredbarron; 6th Dec 2011 at 14:28.
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nobody is suggesting that the Edinburgh service would be daily. More than likely once a week and if demand justifies then the frequency can be increased.
Fair enough, I like Alex Salmond, he's always going to put what he thinks are Scotland's interests first. My gripe is that what he thinks is in the national interest of Scotland, the UK and the SNP are not all the same thing.
Also the ratio of hot air to strategic intelligent management in all politicians is way too high. Holyrood is not an intellectual powerhouse. We still await a new Adam Smith....
cotland more than pays its own way in the UK, so much so that we have subsidised the rest of the UK for the last 5 consecutive years
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S1E business trips to China are something that generally must be planned well ahead, not like Europe where they can be almost spur of the moment and demand at least daily services. As someone who travelled extensively before I retired, I say planning to travel at least in one of the directions on a once-a-week service would be no big drawback. In fact if it meant avoiding Heathrow or one of the other European mega-terminals I'd be positively delighted to so arrange things.
PS Who suggested wee Eck was going to subsidise Air China? Like all of us up here, he's got enough hard work to do subsidising England right now !
PS Who suggested wee Eck was going to subsidise Air China? Like all of us up here, he's got enough hard work to do subsidising England right now !
Last edited by theredbarron; 6th Dec 2011 at 14:57.
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Joe, good point so let's hope that the sale goes through quickly.
the Chinese to a 'tied' airport.