HUMBERSIDE
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I think CDG would definately work! A london airport would but it depends, you could say LCY but would the trains compete too much with that? LHR is unlikely now due to a lack of slots
LGW is possible so i would say a toss up between LGW and LCY!
I couldnt see Thomsonfly in its low cost form at HUY i think that it will stitch up DSA and dont know if any other lo-co will go to DSA apart from Ryanair possibly basing a few aircraft there!
SOU would work with Eastern or FLYBe because of the connection of both areas due to the shipping industry. Remember both of these airlines have low operating costs so they can fly the routes without having huge loads!
Copenhagen, in my opinion, would work as every time i go from HUY via AMS there are always a number of people ending up in Copenhagen that origionated from HUY!
MRS i think is a none starter for the reasons AirHumberside stated.
Would BFS or BHD realy work? Ive never realy thaught about that. Would DUB not be better? Maybe Eastern or FLYbe would be suited to this route.
I understand DUS was, at one point, operated from HUY but i dont know how well it did, or how long it lasted. Wouldnt any german destination be better served from DSA? Something like HLX to Cologne?
At the end of the day, the region as a whole has never had more choice and i hope the emergance of DSA will only bring good things for all concerned and that both HUY and DSA grow to be succesful, first class regional airports!!!!
P.s. sorry about the 'P' in Thomson, i was thinking of the surname Thompson!
LGW is possible so i would say a toss up between LGW and LCY!I couldnt see Thomsonfly in its low cost form at HUY i think that it will stitch up DSA and dont know if any other lo-co will go to DSA apart from Ryanair possibly basing a few aircraft there!
SOU would work with Eastern or FLYBe because of the connection of both areas due to the shipping industry. Remember both of these airlines have low operating costs so they can fly the routes without having huge loads!
Copenhagen, in my opinion, would work as every time i go from HUY via AMS there are always a number of people ending up in Copenhagen that origionated from HUY!
MRS i think is a none starter for the reasons AirHumberside stated.
Would BFS or BHD realy work? Ive never realy thaught about that. Would DUB not be better? Maybe Eastern or FLYbe would be suited to this route.
I understand DUS was, at one point, operated from HUY but i dont know how well it did, or how long it lasted. Wouldnt any german destination be better served from DSA? Something like HLX to Cologne?
At the end of the day, the region as a whole has never had more choice and i hope the emergance of DSA will only bring good things for all concerned and that both HUY and DSA grow to be succesful, first class regional airports!!!!
P.s. sorry about the 'P' in Thomson, i was thinking of the surname Thompson!
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When I was a business flyer to LHR and LGW (change at Norwich) the loads were always high with a large majority going longhaul.
I think LGW is set up better to serve the local business community, i.e. oil, petro chemical, good european and shipping destinations etc. An easier transit airport than LHR.
LCY would fail in my opinion because of no advantage in connections and the fact that a visitor to London can drive to Doncaster or Newark and catch a train every 30 minutes or so to London and return by turning up at the station and catching the next train within 30 minutes. A big plus if your meeting finishes early, say 1400 and not 1700. the train is available but you would still be on the evening flight home, if you had flown down on a day return..
I think LGW is set up better to serve the local business community, i.e. oil, petro chemical, good european and shipping destinations etc. An easier transit airport than LHR.
LCY would fail in my opinion because of no advantage in connections and the fact that a visitor to London can drive to Doncaster or Newark and catch a train every 30 minutes or so to London and return by turning up at the station and catching the next train within 30 minutes. A big plus if your meeting finishes early, say 1400 and not 1700. the train is available but you would still be on the evening flight home, if you had flown down on a day return..
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Hi 1DC
I believe the LHR service was abandoned because of increasingly high landing fees at the airport (LHR) Although loads were excellent it cost way too much to operate the SD330/360 on the route and the authorities priced all users of small aircraft out of LHR.
Do BD do a LHR to Copenhagen? Could maybe do a stop on that! What type of airline would you like to see operating to LGW? Low cost would be good but wouldnt offer connections, although i suppose everything is close together there so connecting to any flight would be simple!
I think the flight only deals from HUY should be advertised more, more and more people are going on villa holidays now so that could increase the number of flights we have every week!
I believe the LHR service was abandoned because of increasingly high landing fees at the airport (LHR) Although loads were excellent it cost way too much to operate the SD330/360 on the route and the authorities priced all users of small aircraft out of LHR.
Do BD do a LHR to Copenhagen? Could maybe do a stop on that! What type of airline would you like to see operating to LGW? Low cost would be good but wouldnt offer connections, although i suppose everything is close together there so connecting to any flight would be simple!
I think the flight only deals from HUY should be advertised more, more and more people are going on villa holidays now so that could increase the number of flights we have every week!
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Dreamers!
Again all these people quoting their route wish lists, these lists of desirable places cant happen without an operator, how would you attract the operator and how could you ensure that the a/c will have anough bums on seats.
We can allmake a list of routes but lets stick to the here and now, we have two operators, operating from HUY, are Eastern going to suddenly start flying these "wish" routes or is KLM going to start to fly point to point routes rather than a taxi service to its hub at AMS.......the answer is NO!
So, back in the real world before these routes become anything more than a figment of peoples imagination, just how does the airport owners attract an operator......
We can allmake a list of routes but lets stick to the here and now, we have two operators, operating from HUY, are Eastern going to suddenly start flying these "wish" routes or is KLM going to start to fly point to point routes rather than a taxi service to its hub at AMS.......the answer is NO!
So, back in the real world before these routes become anything more than a figment of peoples imagination, just how does the airport owners attract an operator......
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Ah!, what would life be without dreams....
AndyHUY.. You are correct the main reason for the end of the LHR flights was landing cost, but it did coincide with KLM taking over Air UK.
I believe a service to LGW would get more support than CDG, on the few occasions I used the old service to CDG it was less than half full. The French owned oil refinery at Immingham lobbied for the service to Paris but by itself wasn't able to provide enough custom.
LGW could probably support a small RJ or turboprop, I doubt if a low cost operator would be interested. BA have a frequent service from ABZ to LGW, I have wondered if a stop at HUY twice a day would have support. As long as their wasn't any competition on direct flights from ABZ to LGW, it may be feasible. I doubt if they would charge as much as Eastern so should get all of the business..
Flight only deals from HUY, at present, are almost always too high to challenge fares from LBA or MAN. I have even driven to LGW to take the BA flight to Alicante and saved Ł100 on 2 return tickets, plus car hire and petrol.. My last flight from MAN to ALC, a month ago, was Ł48.50 return inclusive of taxes. I admit it was one of the best deals I have had but without a low cost operator HUY will never compete with that..
AndyHUY.. You are correct the main reason for the end of the LHR flights was landing cost, but it did coincide with KLM taking over Air UK.
I believe a service to LGW would get more support than CDG, on the few occasions I used the old service to CDG it was less than half full. The French owned oil refinery at Immingham lobbied for the service to Paris but by itself wasn't able to provide enough custom.
LGW could probably support a small RJ or turboprop, I doubt if a low cost operator would be interested. BA have a frequent service from ABZ to LGW, I have wondered if a stop at HUY twice a day would have support. As long as their wasn't any competition on direct flights from ABZ to LGW, it may be feasible. I doubt if they would charge as much as Eastern so should get all of the business..
Flight only deals from HUY, at present, are almost always too high to challenge fares from LBA or MAN. I have even driven to LGW to take the BA flight to Alicante and saved Ł100 on 2 return tickets, plus car hire and petrol.. My last flight from MAN to ALC, a month ago, was Ł48.50 return inclusive of taxes. I admit it was one of the best deals I have had but without a low cost operator HUY will never compete with that..
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Cirseam,
It can also be called market research, especially with people in the know here on this site, or it can be called putting the ghost to rest -if there is a big NO out there for some routes I can stop hoping, but from the responses from people it seems there is some hope.
Who knows who is scanning these pages looking for ideas and potential, someone wanting to 'take a punt'. Maybe HUY management read these pages, might give them a thought or two. Now Humberside has its' own travel agency, they might even start broking flights on a trial basis to use as ammo in any discussions, who knows.
The market does not come to you, you must go to the market!
It can also be called market research, especially with people in the know here on this site, or it can be called putting the ghost to rest -if there is a big NO out there for some routes I can stop hoping, but from the responses from people it seems there is some hope.
Who knows who is scanning these pages looking for ideas and potential, someone wanting to 'take a punt'. Maybe HUY management read these pages, might give them a thought or two. Now Humberside has its' own travel agency, they might even start broking flights on a trial basis to use as ammo in any discussions, who knows.
The market does not come to you, you must go to the market!
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7006 Fan - Thanks for the kind lessons in market research (removes tongue from cheek).
So, airlines now read the pages of Pprune for prospective routes because "with people in the know here on this site" represent the entire market for prospective route, I dont think so Fan.
The problem that know one has yet seem to answer, all this "market research", all these routes supposedly the market needs and wants and yet no operator, otherthan the two incumbent users of HUY, if there was money to be made, a market with the pot of gold, I'm quite sure that by now an operator would be operating that route.
The economics of regional routes from HUY just dont seem right to me, either you have to have a mass market to fill 100+ seater a/c to make a decent return or operate a commuter a/c and charge the earth to make a return, as I've stated before, I cant see a market for low cost at HUY (DSA being so close, the actual market HUY serves now and an operator whom would take such a gamble).
So, airlines now read the pages of Pprune for prospective routes because "with people in the know here on this site" represent the entire market for prospective route, I dont think so Fan.
The problem that know one has yet seem to answer, all this "market research", all these routes supposedly the market needs and wants and yet no operator, otherthan the two incumbent users of HUY, if there was money to be made, a market with the pot of gold, I'm quite sure that by now an operator would be operating that route.
The economics of regional routes from HUY just dont seem right to me, either you have to have a mass market to fill 100+ seater a/c to make a decent return or operate a commuter a/c and charge the earth to make a return, as I've stated before, I cant see a market for low cost at HUY (DSA being so close, the actual market HUY serves now and an operator whom would take such a gamble).
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Circseam,
If HUY listened to you, they would all pack up and go home. which they won't as they are up for it. (real Dunkirk spirit, and we all know what happened after that!)
The forum gives a place for people to make comments, pass ideas and so forth.
Remember the guy who invented non-stick glue? (got laughed out of the house) Made millions selling post-it notes!
we Brits have a marvellous habit of putting each-other down, and 'big is best', we will see!
Going off at a tangent for a second. The official Robin Hood site states, in the employment section
paraphrasing:
"...we will create 2350 jobs, directly and indirectly, by year 15 of operation...by year 5, 880..." What ever happened to the promise of 7,000 direct and indirect? This fact has been kept very quiet. At least HUY does not make rash statements to build up hope.
If HUY listened to you, they would all pack up and go home. which they won't as they are up for it. (real Dunkirk spirit, and we all know what happened after that!)
The forum gives a place for people to make comments, pass ideas and so forth.
Remember the guy who invented non-stick glue? (got laughed out of the house) Made millions selling post-it notes!
we Brits have a marvellous habit of putting each-other down, and 'big is best', we will see!
Going off at a tangent for a second. The official Robin Hood site states, in the employment section
paraphrasing:
"...we will create 2350 jobs, directly and indirectly, by year 15 of operation...by year 5, 880..." What ever happened to the promise of 7,000 direct and indirect? This fact has been kept very quiet. At least HUY does not make rash statements to build up hope.
Last edited by 7006 fan; 12th Jun 2005 at 10:05.
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Us Brits are also nurtured on movies with happy endings, which we all know do not reflect real life.
I don't think anyone wants to see people lose their jobs. HUY though needs to make the right noises and pretty soon at that. I am marked about what 'could have been' at HUY. In 1997 plans were afoot to see extensive expansion and marketing, not just the airport but the immediate and Humber area. The airport had already seen redevelopments (in about 1995 or 96?), so it shows how high optimism was at the time. Hull seems to have lived up to the blueprint, the airport apparently not. I can only assume the airport having Manchester Airport Group as its major shareholder, curtailed the plans.
Manchester International Airport has seen substantial investment running into the Ł100s of millions since 1999 when they took control of HUY. From what I have seen there is little change at HUY since 1997, certainly no expansion, so clearly HUY are not being spoilt by the MAG’s millions. If the present day powers foresaw any potential at HUY, then surely it would have happened before now. For three years duration, during the declaration of DSA and the announcement of airlines at DSA, did HUY and the Manchester Airport Group have the opportunity to court low-cost and other airlines through incentives, but nothing much materialised. Why all of a sudden are Airlines going to see HUY as an attractive proposition?
The world seems to be passing HUY by whilst other similar sized airports with similar sized catchments areas are attracting both lo-co and other airlines. I admire your passion for HUY, but serious questions have to be asked. I can get to HUY in about 35 minutes of uncongested road and I would love to see someone like Flybe, BMIbaby, or Easyjet open at HUY, but I really can’t see it. DSA is my first choice, and I tend to disagree with AndyHUY who suggests Thomson’s have pretty much stitched up DSA, but then we are all entitled to our opinion, only some lead to circular arguments like the future of HUY.
In a nutshell, from a person who held high expectation for HUY in the late 1990’s, when competition was not as fierce and great plans were afoot, I fear by the lack of progress made since clearly demonstrates that HUY is not at the forefront of plans by its owners for any kind of expansion or marketing strategy, and they are content on running the airport as it is now.
I don't think anyone wants to see people lose their jobs. HUY though needs to make the right noises and pretty soon at that. I am marked about what 'could have been' at HUY. In 1997 plans were afoot to see extensive expansion and marketing, not just the airport but the immediate and Humber area. The airport had already seen redevelopments (in about 1995 or 96?), so it shows how high optimism was at the time. Hull seems to have lived up to the blueprint, the airport apparently not. I can only assume the airport having Manchester Airport Group as its major shareholder, curtailed the plans.
Manchester International Airport has seen substantial investment running into the Ł100s of millions since 1999 when they took control of HUY. From what I have seen there is little change at HUY since 1997, certainly no expansion, so clearly HUY are not being spoilt by the MAG’s millions. If the present day powers foresaw any potential at HUY, then surely it would have happened before now. For three years duration, during the declaration of DSA and the announcement of airlines at DSA, did HUY and the Manchester Airport Group have the opportunity to court low-cost and other airlines through incentives, but nothing much materialised. Why all of a sudden are Airlines going to see HUY as an attractive proposition?
The world seems to be passing HUY by whilst other similar sized airports with similar sized catchments areas are attracting both lo-co and other airlines. I admire your passion for HUY, but serious questions have to be asked. I can get to HUY in about 35 minutes of uncongested road and I would love to see someone like Flybe, BMIbaby, or Easyjet open at HUY, but I really can’t see it. DSA is my first choice, and I tend to disagree with AndyHUY who suggests Thomson’s have pretty much stitched up DSA, but then we are all entitled to our opinion, only some lead to circular arguments like the future of HUY.
In a nutshell, from a person who held high expectation for HUY in the late 1990’s, when competition was not as fierce and great plans were afoot, I fear by the lack of progress made since clearly demonstrates that HUY is not at the forefront of plans by its owners for any kind of expansion or marketing strategy, and they are content on running the airport as it is now.
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I agree with the last post; I also live @35mins drive from HUY(was there yesterday infact) and have always hoped that a loco would start services from there. Unfortunately with DSA diluting the catchment area, I can't see it happening now. IMO the only possible contender would be Flybe as all the others have the wrong size of a/c for most routes. I had seen posts about Jet2 coming to HUY and even thought they could operate services to PMI/ALC/BCN on w-rotations from LBA but then surely this would reduce demand for the established routes from LBA. The IT flights seem to do well and the AMS service is getting more capacity again from October; F100s replacing F70s on 2 of the daily flights (which will be more than from MME). There is clearly a market that isn't being tapped into; those travellers that want only flights (no accomodation). Flight only prices have always been high on IT services; I suspect the reason why Jet2 can fill 3 flights a day to AGP.
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I am still hoping FLYBe do come to HUY, i think if they dont then there is hardly any chance another lo-co would do but you never know.
The argument 'if there was such a demand someone would have offered these routes by now' is IMO false. Regional airports like HUY dont usualy fit into most of the major airlines operations as they like to stay around the big hubs such as MAN and the London airports. KLM have done an excellent job with the feeder services from the regions and i find it strange that BA have not offered these feeders from the regions to LGW, to try to claw back some business!
10 years ago would you have honestly predicted how much the demnd for air travel has grown? LPL was never seen as a success, with three scheduled destinations and a few charters! EXT, BOH and NWI where never as busy as HUY! LBA was not handling many more PAX than HUY is now, maybe 700,000-800,000. These places are still growing and with FLYBe looking at further expansion on the East Coast (HUY, NWI and MME) it is believed that these airports will be following in the foot steps of the South Coast success stories such as SOU BOH and EXT!
Until someone officialy announces that HUY will never expand i will still remain optimistic for the future!
The argument 'if there was such a demand someone would have offered these routes by now' is IMO false. Regional airports like HUY dont usualy fit into most of the major airlines operations as they like to stay around the big hubs such as MAN and the London airports. KLM have done an excellent job with the feeder services from the regions and i find it strange that BA have not offered these feeders from the regions to LGW, to try to claw back some business!
10 years ago would you have honestly predicted how much the demnd for air travel has grown? LPL was never seen as a success, with three scheduled destinations and a few charters! EXT, BOH and NWI where never as busy as HUY! LBA was not handling many more PAX than HUY is now, maybe 700,000-800,000. These places are still growing and with FLYBe looking at further expansion on the East Coast (HUY, NWI and MME) it is believed that these airports will be following in the foot steps of the South Coast success stories such as SOU BOH and EXT!
Until someone officialy announces that HUY will never expand i will still remain optimistic for the future!
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lead to circular arguments like the future of HUY
Talking of which
Is the First Choice FUE flight going ahead next year?
I take it AEU arent going to do Greece flights for Thomas Cook next year now?
Any other charter news/rumours?
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Is the AGP to be continued in summer 06?
I see eastern are now dropping in to MME on the Sunday evening ABZ
I have heard talk of Croatia for 06, but that could be all it is, hope not.
F100s replacing F70s on 2 of the daily flights (which will be more than from MME)
In actual fact, considering KLM now use larger aircraft at Teesside, and the number of rotations at Humberside has been reduced, MME has virtualy caught up with HUY.
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7006 fan
I think I can explain the discrepancies in potential employment figures. The initial 7000 were suggested by pathway and employment agencies in Doncaster. DSA/Peel suggest the 2350 figure. Where these differ, in terms of job creation is that the DSA figure is determined by what sustainable jobs (permanent, full/part time) will be created directly or indirectly by the airport and at the airport. The accumulative posts needed to fulfil the blueprint of anticipated investment and companies’ locating/relocating to the area derive the 7000 figure. For instance, the 7000 jobs embody; respected companies staff intake, and manpower needed to construct the buildings, (construction workers, labourers, security guards, painter/decorators etc), many of these will be contracted for an ‘x’ period of time.
However, because of the initial success of the airport the goal posts have moved, and I think you will see in due course the 7000 as being a conservative estimate.
I think even Peel have underestimated the ‘pull’ of the airport.
I think I can explain the discrepancies in potential employment figures. The initial 7000 were suggested by pathway and employment agencies in Doncaster. DSA/Peel suggest the 2350 figure. Where these differ, in terms of job creation is that the DSA figure is determined by what sustainable jobs (permanent, full/part time) will be created directly or indirectly by the airport and at the airport. The accumulative posts needed to fulfil the blueprint of anticipated investment and companies’ locating/relocating to the area derive the 7000 figure. For instance, the 7000 jobs embody; respected companies staff intake, and manpower needed to construct the buildings, (construction workers, labourers, security guards, painter/decorators etc), many of these will be contracted for an ‘x’ period of time.
However, because of the initial success of the airport the goal posts have moved, and I think you will see in due course the 7000 as being a conservative estimate.
I think even Peel have underestimated the ‘pull’ of the airport.
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Except Peel used the figure when they were bidding for the Airport/Euro-millions. The industry thought it risable as the math is 1 per 1000 pax, hence HUY employ c. 500/600 reflecting their pax, LGW employ between 25&30 thou depending upon season. As 7,000 equate to 7,000,000 pax, I somehow doubt it. Even EMA ain't there yet, and that is half of MAN's pax numbers.
Pass the reality syringe!
Pass the reality syringe!
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7006 Fan - Circseam,
"If HUY listened to you, they would all pack up and go home. which they won't as they are up for it. (real Dunkirk spirit, and we all know what happened after that!)"
Up for it? Up for what exactly, HUY is going no where real fast, its reliant on charters and a couple of cheduled routes, take a look at the past 7006 Fan, its an airport that has been subsided by the people of Ex-Humberside region and look what it has achieved in all those years.
As Ive said previously Im not against HUY, far from it, I had the outlook like some you guys on here but after reading some posts on here and looking back over the airports history I have come to the conclusion that I'm am just a realist that believes the arrival of DSA will prevent HUY from becomming anything more than it already is, a regional airport with little (in regard to what other airports offer) to offer locals, such as myself.
I've read the posts of some whom I believe just dont see the bigger picture, the route wish lists of peole who seem not see that the economics of operating from HUY just are not there, the continual going around in circles as to who, what and when was to blame.
Dunkirk was an evacuation of men in distress, the resolve of those men is an example to others but to quote such spirit and a time in history in conjunction with HUY doesnt quite sit right with me......
Ands as for the continual sniping of DSA, its getting awfully boring especially when HUY in seemingly in such a state, Id thought all your efforts would be better sorting out HUY's management.
Circseam
"If HUY listened to you, they would all pack up and go home. which they won't as they are up for it. (real Dunkirk spirit, and we all know what happened after that!)"
Up for it? Up for what exactly, HUY is going no where real fast, its reliant on charters and a couple of cheduled routes, take a look at the past 7006 Fan, its an airport that has been subsided by the people of Ex-Humberside region and look what it has achieved in all those years.
As Ive said previously Im not against HUY, far from it, I had the outlook like some you guys on here but after reading some posts on here and looking back over the airports history I have come to the conclusion that I'm am just a realist that believes the arrival of DSA will prevent HUY from becomming anything more than it already is, a regional airport with little (in regard to what other airports offer) to offer locals, such as myself.
I've read the posts of some whom I believe just dont see the bigger picture, the route wish lists of peole who seem not see that the economics of operating from HUY just are not there, the continual going around in circles as to who, what and when was to blame.
Dunkirk was an evacuation of men in distress, the resolve of those men is an example to others but to quote such spirit and a time in history in conjunction with HUY doesnt quite sit right with me......
Ands as for the continual sniping of DSA, its getting awfully boring especially when HUY in seemingly in such a state, Id thought all your efforts would be better sorting out HUY's management.
Circseam