BA Bank Holiday Chaos
I am a figment of my own imagination
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Agree whole heartedly, tantrums are rarely attractive and generally from people who should know better, ie the union reps who appear to have caculatedly thrown a tantrum and are all for spoiling tactics. If the pay is so awful then why are the slots being filled, and by describing the counterstaff as 'monkeys' working for 'peanuts' would seem to be as counterproductice as bringing the airline down. If any other industry goes on strike everyone carps a little... wrong!!! Most people hold their heads in wonder at underground maligerers who get sacked for playing squash when they should have been ill and London is brought to a halt so the unions can re-instate their man. or perhaps the collection of drink cans that just happened to accumulate but nobody either drank or was responsible, or the firemen who want massive rises and are outraged that anybody could be used instead of them if and when they do decide to strike. It is unions and situations like these that make the average citizen think them a plague of trouble makers who seem hellbent on nothing but confrontation and strife.
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BahrainLad
So if the vote had gone the other way to accept the pay offer then that wouldn't have given a mandate for it to be accepted?
Face facts - many people can't be bothered to vote for anything (unless its Big Brother
) - to say that just because some couldn't be bothered to vote that the outcome doesn't have any validity in nonsense.
Of those prepared to vote the majority was in favour of strike action - full stop.
Buster The Bear
Deal on offer is inflation or inflation +2% over 3 years (the +2% if you make it non-pensionable)
As to binding arbitration - if the company says that it will accept any outcome of binding arbitration, then by definition it will be able to accept a judgement that totally agrees with the unions claim - if it can meet the unions claim after binding arbitration why can it not negotiate before?
Nobody wants to go on strike, but we are now at the end of August still no further forward on a pay rise that was due to be paid at the beginning of January. There is money available in the company - any employee can point out the massive amounts of waste that still go on - so a sensible agreement all round can still be found.
In an "election" where there is a simple either/or, 25% does not give you a mandate.
Face facts - many people can't be bothered to vote for anything (unless its Big Brother
) - to say that just because some couldn't be bothered to vote that the outcome doesn't have any validity in nonsense.Of those prepared to vote the majority was in favour of strike action - full stop.
Buster The Bear
So what is the deal offered by management and refused by staff via a democratic ballot and therefore what was the reasoning by the union for refusing a management proposed binding arbitration?
As to binding arbitration - if the company says that it will accept any outcome of binding arbitration, then by definition it will be able to accept a judgement that totally agrees with the unions claim - if it can meet the unions claim after binding arbitration why can it not negotiate before?
Nobody wants to go on strike, but we are now at the end of August still no further forward on a pay rise that was due to be paid at the beginning of January. There is money available in the company - any employee can point out the massive amounts of waste that still go on - so a sensible agreement all round can still be found.
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Obviously you don't understand the complexities of travel & many peoples itineraries. As I said I may be lucky & miss the BA strike should it go ahead unlike many other poor souls who have to live with the uncertainty of having their travel arrangements disrupted, isn't travel stressful enough without that!. Many pax like me have complex itineraries, where if we miss connections it screws up our plans major time down the line, as it is I have a little leeway but not very much.
Why don't you airline staff grow up, as for kicking up tantrums airline staff seem to be experrts at that at innocent pax's expense. Everyone knows airlines reputations for not paying many of its less specialised staff well, why does it come as a surprise to you that this hasn't changed, why did you join an airline in the first place? I knew it, I didn't, I just accepted it & went on to a career that paid far better with far better conditions! You make your bed, you lie in it.
Would you lot grow up. When I pay for & book something I expect a decent product & service, is that too much to expect, if I don't get it I complain, what's wrong with that? Most companies are falling over themselves to please & not alienate the customer but I ask you, all three airlines I'm flying with are voting on strike action, there's serious unrest going on here & a total lack of concern it appears for the inconvenience the airlines are causing their customers if they matter at all. If you ask me we seem to be just pawns in the whole game. If you guys think that I'm going to accept a shoddy service & be made to suffer for something that I've never done lying down, you're very much mistaken. Most "grown up" people think of the consequences of their actions on other people before they act, seems alot of airline staff are like overgrown children who only think of themselves.
Obviously you don't understand the complexities of travel & many peoples itineraries. As I said I may be lucky & miss the BA strike should it go ahead unlike many other poor souls who have to live with the uncertainty of having their travel arrangements disrupted, isn't travel stressful enough without that!. Many pax like me have complex itineraries, where if we miss connections it screws up our plans major time down the line, as it is I have a little leeway but not very much.
Why don't you airline staff grow up, as for kicking up tantrums airline staff seem to be experrts at that at innocent pax's expense. Everyone knows airlines reputations for not paying many of its less specialised staff well, why does it come as a surprise to you that this hasn't changed, why did you join an airline in the first place? I knew it, I didn't, I just accepted it & went on to a career that paid far better with far better conditions! You make your bed, you lie in it.
Would you lot grow up. When I pay for & book something I expect a decent product & service, is that too much to expect, if I don't get it I complain, what's wrong with that? Most companies are falling over themselves to please & not alienate the customer but I ask you, all three airlines I'm flying with are voting on strike action, there's serious unrest going on here & a total lack of concern it appears for the inconvenience the airlines are causing their customers if they matter at all. If you ask me we seem to be just pawns in the whole game. If you guys think that I'm going to accept a shoddy service & be made to suffer for something that I've never done lying down, you're very much mistaken. Most "grown up" people think of the consequences of their actions on other people before they act, seems alot of airline staff are like overgrown children who only think of themselves.
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Seeing as those who are going on strike have a problem with the airline, why do they insist on striking over one of the busiest weekends of the year? Ok, it would make the point to BA, but hardly fair on the thousands who want to travel.
Maybe I'm wrong, but if they strike over the bank holiday weekend, once the strike is over they will have one hell of a time trying to clear the backlog.... If they did it midweek, when it will still affect BA but not thousands of innocent travellers, the 'clean-up' after might not be so bad.
I'm not toally sure whether I agree with striking. Hell, the Cabin Crew in my company get paid a lot less then the check-in staff for BA, and they have a LOT more RESPONSIBILITY. We've recently asked for a pay-rise, and after lots of negotiation got one. It wasn't as much as the rise of inflation, but we were thankful to get one at all.
Was speaking to a BA FO the other day, and was told that whenever the flight-crew went for a pay-rise they were quite happy to negotiate. They've given up various things in the past (i.e. a paid-for breakfast when night-stopping) in order to get the pay-rise. Maybe if the union supporting the check-in staff sat down at the table like adults and were prepared to negotiate instead of just demanding what they want, they might get somewhere.
I don't presume to know the ins and outs of this whole strike thing, but from an outsider point of view, it looks to be pretty selfish.
Am ready for the battering I shall now receive.....
Maybe I'm wrong, but if they strike over the bank holiday weekend, once the strike is over they will have one hell of a time trying to clear the backlog.... If they did it midweek, when it will still affect BA but not thousands of innocent travellers, the 'clean-up' after might not be so bad.
I'm not toally sure whether I agree with striking. Hell, the Cabin Crew in my company get paid a lot less then the check-in staff for BA, and they have a LOT more RESPONSIBILITY. We've recently asked for a pay-rise, and after lots of negotiation got one. It wasn't as much as the rise of inflation, but we were thankful to get one at all.
Was speaking to a BA FO the other day, and was told that whenever the flight-crew went for a pay-rise they were quite happy to negotiate. They've given up various things in the past (i.e. a paid-for breakfast when night-stopping) in order to get the pay-rise. Maybe if the union supporting the check-in staff sat down at the table like adults and were prepared to negotiate instead of just demanding what they want, they might get somewhere.
I don't presume to know the ins and outs of this whole strike thing, but from an outsider point of view, it looks to be pretty selfish.
Am ready for the battering I shall now receive.....
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Fester, I understand your point of view, but it's the unions and the management that are more to blame than the staff. the unions because they are bloody minded, the management because they want to pay as little as possible (Mind you show me a company that doesn't).
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Do you know something & I never thought I'd see the day when I would say this but as much as MOL gets my goat at times I'm beginning to see the sense of him not wanting sections of his workforce unionised. I've never had this uncertainty of my travel arrangements being scuppered once when flying with FR since no unions means no pax can be held to ransom over the threats of strike action. Yet when I'm travelling with three full cost airlines I'm not even sure if my flights will depart on schedule & who accused me of FR bashing? Seems to me unions are the bane of airlines & their pax alike.
They do it to cause the maximum amount of damage & disruption to drive their demands home to mgt. The pax's feelings, rights or arrangements do not matter in the equation, as I've said we're just pawns in the game, to see a pax on the news yesterday stuck at an airport with tears streaming down her face took the biscuit. While I sympathise with anyone who isn't paid a decent & liveable wage & I've no doubt the airlines are to blame, I think its unfair that innocent pax have to suffer. If BA staff in particular continue to choose to disregard their pax like this, I believe they in the end will be the losers since much of BA's customer loyalty & credibility will be lost.
Seeing as those who are going on strike have a problem with the airline, why do they insist on striking over one of the busiest weekends of the year?
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Fester
So whats your solution? - if management refuse to negotiate what other options are there?
Whatever industry your in, if the workforce go out on strike its the customers who suffer - airlines are no different to anyone else.
As to the timing - Union legislation means that there are certain steps have to go through before a strike can be called - OK the unions could delay the strike until a wet-wednesday in October but as I said before - this has been going on since last year - we have been trying to negotiate a settlement for 8 months - this October we are supposed to start talking about next years pay claim. You cannot keep dragging out negotiations that are going nowhere.
While I sympathise with anyone who isn't paid a decent & liveable wage & I've no doubt the airlines are to blame, I think its unfair that innocent pax have to suffer.
Whatever industry your in, if the workforce go out on strike its the customers who suffer - airlines are no different to anyone else.
As to the timing - Union legislation means that there are certain steps have to go through before a strike can be called - OK the unions could delay the strike until a wet-wednesday in October but as I said before - this has been going on since last year - we have been trying to negotiate a settlement for 8 months - this October we are supposed to start talking about next years pay claim. You cannot keep dragging out negotiations that are going nowhere.
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Obviously you don't understand the complexities of travel & many peoples itineraries.
You keep going on and on about how selfish us awful, wicked airline staff are, but all you seem to do is lament your own circumstances. I can see your point of view perfectly, can you see the check-in staff's problem too?
How very wise you were to go and get a better career that was paid so marvellously well. Did you get a career that allows you to afford a business jet? You haven't? Oh well, perhaps you should've forseen this as you say the check-in staff should've forseen net pay cuts.
It's great that you support Michael O'Leary so whole heartedly now. Have you bothered to read the threads that recount his tactics? Perhaps you should climb out of Mrs Thatchers handbag and recognise that people need unions to stand up for their rights.
I am not defending the union's decision to choose the bank holiday weekend for their action, that to me seems particularly vindictive (but also a good bargaining tool), but as you seem to be of the opinion that the check-in staff should put you before their financial well being and ability to support themselves, isn't it only fair that you should return the favour and put their wellbeing before your little holiday and the terribly complex travel plans you have or at least try to understand the issues a little more before you start spurting your offensive drivel on an airline crew website?
How about taking the advice that you give to the check-in staff; if you don't like it, go somewhere else? Not a very helpful suggestion is it?
Currently, I'm due to fly BA on business trips on August 20, (back home from Sweden where I currently am) August 25 (out), August 27(back), August 29(out) September 3 (back), September 5 (out), September 10 (back), Sptember 22 (out) September 24 (back), September 27 (out) and September 28 (back). All European flights, and I guess at least some of those will get disrupted. But I can't find it in my heart to blame staff working for such miserable wages. Especially with the number of managers that BA have for no apparently real reason.
I just hope the unions can achieve an equitable settlement, and if not, they decide to strike on August 30
I just hope the unions can achieve an equitable settlement, and if not, they decide to strike on August 30
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Go ahead, strike; see if I care.
I have already made alternative travel arrangements because I simply cannot be bothered to go through a week or so wondering if my holiday will be severely disrupted or not.
Yes, I will be another no-show at Gatwick and out of pocket, but at least I will on holiday when I want to be.
I have already made alternative travel arrangements because I simply cannot be bothered to go through a week or so wondering if my holiday will be severely disrupted or not.
Yes, I will be another no-show at Gatwick and out of pocket, but at least I will on holiday when I want to be.
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Jet II
I can see what you're getting at & it appears that er82 would be far more qualified to answer that question than me since I work in a small non unionised company which has a much more hands on face to face, personalised way of sorting out any problems. I've a fair idea the way Airlines work though, I used to have the misconception of them being glamorous to work for till I too decided to go for a job in a major carrier. When exploring this option I remember being told despite what the earlier poster says about alot of the staff being "middle aged women, that
The second half of this sentence certainly holds water, as companies they appear to be notoriously bad payers for the less skilled portions of their workforce. When I actually went for the job & was offered it I quickly turned it down when I saw the cr@p money & hours I'd have to work but I'm lucky since I'm trained in various areas & could pick up a job in a far better paid industry with relative ease.
Airlines in general are large impersonal faceless companies who seem to thrive on the fact that there are people out there who'll agree to work for appalling low money & conditions in the first place, when they have you sucked in they appear to use all their bullying tactics to maintain the status quo. They often seems to treat their staff as expendible commodities not people IMHO.
On the other hand take the pax, many have us have forked out a small fortune for our much looked forwarded to trips, & that includeds flights, prebooked accomodations & tours & have tight schedules in alien lands miles from home. It's just not the same as the local train or bus company going on strike. It doesn't have the same reprecussions, if we lose out we lose out bad. While I commisserate with the staff, as a pax I've no doubt my sympathies will soon wear very thin should I experience major problems with my schedule. I mean three airline companies who claim to offer a superior service to the low cost airlines which I've never had a problem with is a bit too much IMHO, where's the superior service there?
It appears to be a catch 22 situation unfortunately, if I had all the answers I'd be a millionaire.
I can see what you're getting at & it appears that er82 would be far more qualified to answer that question than me since I work in a small non unionised company which has a much more hands on face to face, personalised way of sorting out any problems. I've a fair idea the way Airlines work though, I used to have the misconception of them being glamorous to work for till I too decided to go for a job in a major carrier. When exploring this option I remember being told despite what the earlier poster says about alot of the staff being "middle aged women, that
Airlines recruit young & pay low
Airlines in general are large impersonal faceless companies who seem to thrive on the fact that there are people out there who'll agree to work for appalling low money & conditions in the first place, when they have you sucked in they appear to use all their bullying tactics to maintain the status quo. They often seems to treat their staff as expendible commodities not people IMHO.
On the other hand take the pax, many have us have forked out a small fortune for our much looked forwarded to trips, & that includeds flights, prebooked accomodations & tours & have tight schedules in alien lands miles from home. It's just not the same as the local train or bus company going on strike. It doesn't have the same reprecussions, if we lose out we lose out bad. While I commisserate with the staff, as a pax I've no doubt my sympathies will soon wear very thin should I experience major problems with my schedule. I mean three airline companies who claim to offer a superior service to the low cost airlines which I've never had a problem with is a bit too much IMHO, where's the superior service there?
It appears to be a catch 22 situation unfortunately, if I had all the answers I'd be a millionaire.
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As another poor unfortunate who is intending to travel over the bank holiday weekend I am completely mystified as to why your unions are targeting your everyday income, i.e people with families just like yourselves. We don't have a company paying our travel costs or time over a bank holiday weekend.
Yes the tubes go on strike, and we are delayed by an hour or so, yes the railwyays go on strike, we can use buses and cars etc, how do we find alternatives to having to use a plane?? Apart from alternative carriers? Of which from LHR there is limited choice due to the BA monopoly (its our flag carrier, so no issue there)
To mitigate the potential problems of this weekend I booked on-line, I will check in online and pick my boarding pass up using my credit card / exec card from the electronic check in points. I will not need to see another human being until I reach the entrance to the departures area when I flash my boarding card at the security person, and I won't need to see a BA employee until I reach my plane.
People, I suggest you look at what can happen here if you do start to disrupt normal peoples plans and your employers like this, as, unlike pilots, doctors, firemen, and tube drivers etc, you can be replaced by machines (and these don't strike!)
I am hoping that you and your unions see sense before this happens, as if my weekends travel plans are wrecked by some union idiots, hell bent on their own agenda using you staff as pawns, I for one will be very pleased to see all those desks and queues replaced by those quick and easy to use little TV screens that will be unable to hold me to ransom, for something out of my control.
Yes the tubes go on strike, and we are delayed by an hour or so, yes the railwyays go on strike, we can use buses and cars etc, how do we find alternatives to having to use a plane?? Apart from alternative carriers? Of which from LHR there is limited choice due to the BA monopoly (its our flag carrier, so no issue there)
To mitigate the potential problems of this weekend I booked on-line, I will check in online and pick my boarding pass up using my credit card / exec card from the electronic check in points. I will not need to see another human being until I reach the entrance to the departures area when I flash my boarding card at the security person, and I won't need to see a BA employee until I reach my plane.
People, I suggest you look at what can happen here if you do start to disrupt normal peoples plans and your employers like this, as, unlike pilots, doctors, firemen, and tube drivers etc, you can be replaced by machines (and these don't strike!)
I am hoping that you and your unions see sense before this happens, as if my weekends travel plans are wrecked by some union idiots, hell bent on their own agenda using you staff as pawns, I for one will be very pleased to see all those desks and queues replaced by those quick and easy to use little TV screens that will be unable to hold me to ransom, for something out of my control.
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I can understand the frustration from a commercial passenger's point of view, but to accuse us of not having any sympathy for customers is absolutely ridiculous. We as frontline staff take all the BS (no disrespect intended), work our back-sides' off, only to be left with barely £1000 (GROSS) at the end of the month, while management gets bonuses amounting to X thousands (if not hundred's of thousands). Does that seem reasonable?
Secondly, you could check-in online/using self service, but there will be no team to board the flight as that's done by check-in staff as well (or were you under the impression that management took an active role in catering for customer needs?)
Thirdly, to somebody's post regarding BA's economy service, i would say you get preferential treatment as you are airline staff, otherwise economy passenger's are treated like crap, and that's a known fact in the company.
Last but not least, for those of you who are naive enough to think that we as frontline staff have no sympathy for our customers, you ought to know that when a similar strike occurred last year, our CEO was off to Hong Kong on holiday with his family on CX, what does that say about how much he/she values the customers?
At the end of the day, i couldn't care less for what the strike does to passengers plans (holiday or not)...it is customary for passenger's to nag about anything and everything so i'm quite used to it. To the people nagging about us not providing a service bla bla bla...try living in London on less than £1000 a month, and then talk to us.
Secondly, you could check-in online/using self service, but there will be no team to board the flight as that's done by check-in staff as well (or were you under the impression that management took an active role in catering for customer needs?)
Thirdly, to somebody's post regarding BA's economy service, i would say you get preferential treatment as you are airline staff, otherwise economy passenger's are treated like crap, and that's a known fact in the company.
Last but not least, for those of you who are naive enough to think that we as frontline staff have no sympathy for our customers, you ought to know that when a similar strike occurred last year, our CEO was off to Hong Kong on holiday with his family on CX, what does that say about how much he/she values the customers?
At the end of the day, i couldn't care less for what the strike does to passengers plans (holiday or not)...it is customary for passenger's to nag about anything and everything so i'm quite used to it. To the people nagging about us not providing a service bla bla bla...try living in London on less than £1000 a month, and then talk to us.
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How about taking the advice that you give to the check-in staff; if you don't like it, go somewhere else? Not a very helpful suggestion is it?
And the next thing will be BA staff striking in protest against redundancies of their union's making.
At the end of the day, i couldn't care less for what the strike does to passengers plans (holiday or not)...it is customary for passenger's to nag about anything and everything so i'm quite used to it. To the people nagging about us not providing a service bla bla bla...try living in London on less than £1000 a month, and then talk to us.
BBC radio reporting that an extended offer has been brokered by BA. Not sure of the details, something about an extra £1000 to staff who have a good attendance record.
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So, it's OK for you to "nag" about poor pay, yet not for passengers to "nag" about what they have paid for? Where do we get our money, out of thin air?
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otherwise economy passenger's are treated like crap, and that's a known fact in the company.
As I've said before this is a difficult situation. I commiserate with the staff, I know there are abuses of power going on in the company & mgt are creaming it off while lower down the staff are living on crumbs, what's new. The employee problems just seem to go on & on at BA.
However you have to understand that this isn't the pax's fault so why should they suffer after forking out £££ for a service & be held to ransom for something not of their making.
I fear there will no be no easy solution to this problem as long as mgt continue to dig their heels in, I know where the real culprits lie. Who said life is fair, it ain't.
I just hope that the staff gets whats due to them by just threatening strike action but not actually having to resort to it. Good luck!
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Fester, beleive me, i could go on and on about how my colleagues and i have gone well beyond the call of duty on certain occasions and some of these stories really are unbeleiveable, i really sympathise with the passenger, but how much can one take? At the end of the day, it is a lot worse for us to "clean-up" after a walk out so we don't want that either. We can only hope for the best - thank you for your understanding.
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BBC radio reporting that an extended offer has been brokered by BA
Well if they can come up with £300 a year more after one day of threatened strike I wonder what they will come up with after a week
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I think in this day and age the vast majority of us all work for management teams that are on, what we believe are highly inflated pay and bonus scheme's etc etc.
Whilst I agree that the Check in staff do show the pax on the plane, how long could it be before, say, the CC fulfull this role (as an example, I'm sure MOL has already looked at this!)
I hope that, through all of this the two parties involved, i.e the unions and the management are focussing their efforts on negotiation, as opposed to focussing on increasing the distruption (Unions) and breaking the strike (Management)
As I mentioned before, the staff are the patsy's in this, I doubt very much your union 'leaders' have anything more than their union bank accounts and perks to consider, after all, they are a business too, and in this world any increase in salary means an increase in their percentage based subscriptions from your pay packet. I hope that thiose of who did vote yes have done it for the correct reasons, especially as it was only 25% of the total able to vote.
All I want to do is get away for a well earned weekend (yes, I am an average wage earner, with no private jet), on an airline that I don't have to fight for a seat, takes me to where I want to go, instead of an airport miles away, and is not in line to cause the next aluminium shower.
Whilst I agree that the Check in staff do show the pax on the plane, how long could it be before, say, the CC fulfull this role (as an example, I'm sure MOL has already looked at this!)
I hope that, through all of this the two parties involved, i.e the unions and the management are focussing their efforts on negotiation, as opposed to focussing on increasing the distruption (Unions) and breaking the strike (Management)
As I mentioned before, the staff are the patsy's in this, I doubt very much your union 'leaders' have anything more than their union bank accounts and perks to consider, after all, they are a business too, and in this world any increase in salary means an increase in their percentage based subscriptions from your pay packet. I hope that thiose of who did vote yes have done it for the correct reasons, especially as it was only 25% of the total able to vote.
All I want to do is get away for a well earned weekend (yes, I am an average wage earner, with no private jet), on an airline that I don't have to fight for a seat, takes me to where I want to go, instead of an airport miles away, and is not in line to cause the next aluminium shower.