DERRY/LONDONDERRY
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Derry
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Look at the fares on other routes, typically over a hundred pounds single and often much higher. Return flights are generally well over £200. When Loginair operated from LDY fares were typically £80 return and even that looks pricey now compared with Ryanair.
I fear this is the end of general use of the airport. It will only suit a niche of business passengers. That was needed but with falling passenger numbers how can the operating deficit be reduced. The airport also need volume passengers.
I fear this is the end of general use of the airport. It will only suit a niche of business passengers. That was needed but with falling passenger numbers how can the operating deficit be reduced. The airport also need volume passengers.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Milton Keynes
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If the route was viable Ryanair would still be flying it so many of those passengers who were in the low-cost large volume group were traveling at a loss.
This service seems to be me closer to parallel with the DND-STN service, to keep the wheels of business and government oiled to the benefit of the local community.
This service seems to be me closer to parallel with the DND-STN service, to keep the wheels of business and government oiled to the benefit of the local community.
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Derry
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If the route was viable Ryanair would still be flying it so many of those passengers who were in the low-cost large volume group were traveling at a loss.
This service seems to be me closer to parallel with the DND-STN service, to keep the wheels of business and government oiled to the benefit of the local community.
This service seems to be me closer to parallel with the DND-STN service, to keep the wheels of business and government oiled to the benefit of the local community.
The flight ran for 18 years. Ryanair was not losing money for 18 years.
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Derry
Age: 52
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The London route was viable for Ryanair. They scrapped STN as they started Gatwick from BFS and that was more viable.
Don't see L'Pool or Glasgow lasting long though, rubbish flight time and hardly time to get the trolley out which is where they make the extra £££.
Don't see L'Pool or Glasgow lasting long though, rubbish flight time and hardly time to get the trolley out which is where they make the extra £££.
Join Date: Oct 2007
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With the expected hike in fares on this new PSO route, the bulk of passengers who used FR from CODA will shift their travel plans to BFS for more reasonable fares, therefore can't see this lasting, hope I am wrong, time will tell.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Somewhere up there
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I'm staggered by the news that the successful applicant for the PSO is BMIR. I would wager that the management and DCC are disappointed in the outcome too. Was it that more credible airline partners didn't show up or did the procurement process screw up? It would be interesting to know.
Having been a long time supporter of this nice little airport, and flown into it several times (the Mrs is from not far away) I now seriously fear for its future.
The LDY-STN numbers will plummet as BMIR has almost zero credibility, market presence or knowledge of the local market. It's a small, high cost jet too.
Cost conscious Derry folk will get the bus to Antrim Intl to get a cheap flight with RYR. I suspect my own future visits to Co. Derry will be exclusively through BFS.
The 'economic benefit' justification whilst done by a highly credible aviation consultancy firm, is now probably 10 years old and was predicated on the passenger flows going through the airport at the time (circa 450kpa was it?). It would almost certainly not stack up if the same exercise was re-visited 6 months into the BMIR operation.
Having been a long time supporter of this nice little airport, and flown into it several times (the Mrs is from not far away) I now seriously fear for its future.
The LDY-STN numbers will plummet as BMIR has almost zero credibility, market presence or knowledge of the local market. It's a small, high cost jet too.
Cost conscious Derry folk will get the bus to Antrim Intl to get a cheap flight with RYR. I suspect my own future visits to Co. Derry will be exclusively through BFS.
The 'economic benefit' justification whilst done by a highly credible aviation consultancy firm, is now probably 10 years old and was predicated on the passenger flows going through the airport at the time (circa 450kpa was it?). It would almost certainly not stack up if the same exercise was re-visited 6 months into the BMIR operation.
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Derry
Age: 52
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Found this on flybmi site this morning, will be interesting to see if it applies on Derry - Stansted route.
"All bmi regional fares include 23kg of hold luggage, allocated seating, complimentary in-flight drinks and snacks and speedy 30 minute check-ins."
"All bmi regional fares include 23kg of hold luggage, allocated seating, complimentary in-flight drinks and snacks and speedy 30 minute check-ins."
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Derry
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£200+ flights might suit an individual travelling since travel to the other airports isn't free and takes extra time (and time is money) but anyone travelling as a group are unlikely to use such a service.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Europe
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Just looking at the BMI Regional website and the price of flights are eye watering particularly compared with the Ryanair fares that the public have gotten used to.
Second, the bmi poduct is different than the Ryanair product. bmi is not nickeling and diming passengers like Ryanair is as it has baggage, seat-allocation, in-flight service included. People can complain once they have added all those additional fees and charges Ryanair comes up with and have done a realistic comparison of a like-for-like product.
Third, a taxpayer funded PSO route certainly serves a different purpose than a commercial (but apparently not viable) Ryanair service. It certainly is and should not be aimed at attracting non-essential flying for fun and leisure purposes, something on which the Ryanair business model relies on to a great extent.
Fourth, no one can realistically expect that if Ryanair calls it quits because it finds the market not attractive enough to stay a replacement airline comes in and keeps the apparently unsustainable fares.
And fifth, I am tempted to say "welcome to the real world". There is no god-given right to Ryanair flights or an air service at all. I am quite convinced that over the next couple of years a lot of smaller airports will be in for a shock as Ryanair will continue to move away from tertiary and secondary airports and into the big league airports.
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Derry
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I don't wonder about the viability of the Ryanair operation at LDY, it ran for 18 years.
I wonder about the viability of an operation charging £200+ for a return domestic flights when the public have been used over 2 decades to low cost flying which continues to be available just an hour further up the road.
Business may use the route, the general public might not. That's not a sustainable future for the airport.
The airport business development plan called for an increase in passenger numbers to over 1 million per annum. This new PSO is as far removed from that as possible and I can't see how it will allow for expansion.
However I hope I am wrong.
I wonder about the viability of an operation charging £200+ for a return domestic flights when the public have been used over 2 decades to low cost flying which continues to be available just an hour further up the road.
Business may use the route, the general public might not. That's not a sustainable future for the airport.
The airport business development plan called for an increase in passenger numbers to over 1 million per annum. This new PSO is as far removed from that as possible and I can't see how it will allow for expansion.
However I hope I am wrong.
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Derry
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Will information be released on the tendering process? i.e who applied and the reasoning behing BMI-R being awarded the gig. Can't help but think how if either flybe or aerlingus rengional applied that that either wouldn't have been a better fit?
Join Date: Feb 2015
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The airport business development plan called for an increase in passenger numbers to over 1 million per annum. This new PSO is as far removed from that as possible and I can't see how it will allow for expansion.
They put it out to tender, they chose the best option, they are paying a substantial amount of money to keep the airport open, and still people are moaning. I mean really know your ceiling!!
They put it out to tender, they chose the best option, they are paying a substantial amount of money to keep the airport open, and still people are moaning. I mean really know your ceiling!!
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Europe
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Is there any proof that bmi will charge GBP 200+ for a return as the lowest fare? You seem to deduct that from looking at some random non-PSO routes. I have flown bmi regional on non-PSO routes for as little as 49 GBP which is, for all what is included, a more than realistic lead-in fare. How much do you pay for a Ryanair flight with a suitcase in the hold, seat allocation and a snack? People need to understand, and maybe learn it the hard way, that flying across Europe for the price of a cup of coffee or a hamburger is not normal.
The bmi regional operation will have significantly less capacity than Ryanair's, so the lower end of the market will have to move to BFS to get to LON whereas the less price-sensitive folks and business people will be happy to pay a premium to fly directly into LDY. Given that taxpayer money is at work, this seems to be a sensible solution to keep LDY connected with London by air. I doubt the bmi route will be sustainable in the long run, so I would recommend to enjoy it while it lasts. I am sure the airport pestered all airlines it had in its e-mail directory, but as a PSO is tendered, either no one else submitted an offer or bmi regional submitted the best proposal (which, if I am not mistaken, also includes pricing elements).
The bmi regional operation will have significantly less capacity than Ryanair's, so the lower end of the market will have to move to BFS to get to LON whereas the less price-sensitive folks and business people will be happy to pay a premium to fly directly into LDY. Given that taxpayer money is at work, this seems to be a sensible solution to keep LDY connected with London by air. I doubt the bmi route will be sustainable in the long run, so I would recommend to enjoy it while it lasts. I am sure the airport pestered all airlines it had in its e-mail directory, but as a PSO is tendered, either no one else submitted an offer or bmi regional submitted the best proposal (which, if I am not mistaken, also includes pricing elements).
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Derry
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That's my point.
£44 is viable but it depends how many seats are available at that price.
Comparing Ryanair with baggage against BMI Regional is not a fair comparison if you don't want baggage and you can travel to BFS instead.
The airport is subsidised to the tune of £2.5 million a year. That starts to look rather expensive if divided over 150,000 pax rather than 450,000. The viability of the airport will be called into question.
£44 is viable but it depends how many seats are available at that price.
Comparing Ryanair with baggage against BMI Regional is not a fair comparison if you don't want baggage and you can travel to BFS instead.
The airport is subsidised to the tune of £2.5 million a year. That starts to look rather expensive if divided over 150,000 pax rather than 450,000. The viability of the airport will be called into question.
Join Date: Mar 2003
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I am not familar with LDY's traffic mix, but generally speaking I find it difficult to measure an airport's success by looking only at scheduled services only. Airports serve the G.A. community, cater for business jets, ambulance flying and all kinds of non-passenger commercial flying, are home to MRO companies etc. I know airports without a single scheduled service that have much more movements than airports with a glorified scheduled service attracted with tons of public money.
As for comparing FR and BM, BM has decided not to offer an unbundled product. So when making comparisons, it would be sensible to add the average per capita spending on bags, foods and seat reservations on Ryanair flights and not to assume that all Ryanair passengers travel with carry-on, do not drink and eat and are happy with whatever seat is allocated.
Those who are still unhappy with the BM product are free to travel from Belfast. It should be understood, however, that getting to/from Belfast is not for free. The Airporter costs 20 GBP, so you can deduct that amount from the BM fare. Add to that the additional waste of time etc. and BM has a fairly competitive product.
As for comparing FR and BM, BM has decided not to offer an unbundled product. So when making comparisons, it would be sensible to add the average per capita spending on bags, foods and seat reservations on Ryanair flights and not to assume that all Ryanair passengers travel with carry-on, do not drink and eat and are happy with whatever seat is allocated.
Those who are still unhappy with the BM product are free to travel from Belfast. It should be understood, however, that getting to/from Belfast is not for free. The Airporter costs 20 GBP, so you can deduct that amount from the BM fare. Add to that the additional waste of time etc. and BM has a fairly competitive product.
The BIMR product is excellent, and if I can get a return to London for under £150 which includes luggage and saves me from travelling to BFS/BHD then superb.
I am, however astonished that the aircraft seems, from the schedule, to be sat on the tarmac at LDY for 7 hours 35 mins between flights without doing anything. Surely the PSO funding won't cover an idle plane for that length of time? Further, the timings of the flights means CoDA will have to remain open for up to 16 hours, which is quite the undertaking when the only other flights will be 5xweek to GLA and 2xweek to LPL (plus a summer charter).
Hopefully there is more news to come.
I am, however astonished that the aircraft seems, from the schedule, to be sat on the tarmac at LDY for 7 hours 35 mins between flights without doing anything. Surely the PSO funding won't cover an idle plane for that length of time? Further, the timings of the flights means CoDA will have to remain open for up to 16 hours, which is quite the undertaking when the only other flights will be 5xweek to GLA and 2xweek to LPL (plus a summer charter).
Hopefully there is more news to come.
Join Date: Nov 1999
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From the bmi press release:
LDY-STN (all times local)
Flight STD STA Days of Operation
BM2101 06:10 07:30 MTWTF- –
BM2101 06:40 08:00 – – – – – S –
BM2105 13:55 15:15 – – – – – – S
BM2107 17:35 18:55 MTWTF-S
STN-LDY
BM2102 09:00 10:20 MTWTF–
BM2102 08:30 09:50 —–S-
BM2106 15:45 17:05 ——S
BM2108 19:25 20:45 MTWTF-S
Would a CAP371 expert care to give a view on how this would be crewed? Two LDY-based crews, or STN-based crews with the overnight on a split duty? I confess I look at the 0900 departure time from STN and wonder whether it's to facilitate crewing.
LDY-STN (all times local)
Flight STD STA Days of Operation
BM2101 06:10 07:30 MTWTF- –
BM2101 06:40 08:00 – – – – – S –
BM2105 13:55 15:15 – – – – – – S
BM2107 17:35 18:55 MTWTF-S
STN-LDY
BM2102 09:00 10:20 MTWTF–
BM2102 08:30 09:50 —–S-
BM2106 15:45 17:05 ——S
BM2108 19:25 20:45 MTWTF-S
Would a CAP371 expert care to give a view on how this would be crewed? Two LDY-based crews, or STN-based crews with the overnight on a split duty? I confess I look at the 0900 departure time from STN and wonder whether it's to facilitate crewing.