DERRY/LONDONDERRY
Early July stats from AENA are now available. Spanish routes for LDY are as follows (total/pax per flight/LF):
Alicante: 2454/153.4/82%.
Reus: 1781/178.1/99%*
Palma: 1439/180/95.2%
Tenerife: 1278/160/85%
All good stuff. Figures may be different from the CAA stats which should be out on Monday or Tuesday.
(* assuming Spanair A320, with 180 seat configuration.....no doubt Jamie2k9 will put me right if not).
Alicante: 2454/153.4/82%.
Reus: 1781/178.1/99%*
Palma: 1439/180/95.2%
Tenerife: 1278/160/85%
All good stuff. Figures may be different from the CAA stats which should be out on Monday or Tuesday.
(* assuming Spanair A320, with 180 seat configuration.....no doubt Jamie2k9 will put me right if not).
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Thanks cuthere always look forward to the stats! We seriously need some extra flights to REU and PMI. Those LF's are excellent. Pax numbers sound good, with Carn's friend counting around 60 on todays outbound MAN flight. Surely good enough to warrant a year round service? Fingers still firmly crossed.
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July stats are out and are as follows: (Total/Pax per flight/Load Factor)
STN 13349/166.7/88%
BHX 5408/150.2/80%
LPL 7128/132/70%
PIK 6609/122.4/65%
TFS 1304/163/86%
ALC 2537/158.6/84%
FAO 4598/164.2/87%
PMI 1428/178.5/94%
REU 1785/178.5/99%
MAN 2246/48.8/63%
STN 13349/166.7/88%
BHX 5408/150.2/80%
LPL 7128/132/70%
PIK 6609/122.4/65%
TFS 1304/163/86%
ALC 2537/158.6/84%
FAO 4598/164.2/87%
PMI 1428/178.5/94%
REU 1785/178.5/99%
MAN 2246/48.8/63%
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Busy month at ldy - 46392! Didn't see that load factor coming for the MAN route, 63%! If this means the route has established itself hopefully we'll see the lf even higher next month. Bodes well for the route coming back next year and more routes eventually perhaps...
No doubt this:
....will happen any day now, and we'll find out BE's intentions.....!
Busiest month at LDY since August 2008, and I'm pretty sure STN was double daily then.
BE will make a statement shortly and are apparently looking at the market to see if there is a niche route that LDY can sustain!
Busiest month at LDY since August 2008, and I'm pretty sure STN was double daily then.
Join Date: Feb 2011
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I have to admit that clearly my Flybe source isn't as good as my Ryanair source but what I don't understand is now that the route seems established why not go year round? People aren't as patient now a days, who wants to fly with one airline for 4 months of the year to a destination they need to go to and then have to find a new carrier for the other 8 months? It's quite clear that BE aren't staying at LDY for Winter as a route really needs a 6 week announcement before operation.
Well, I've made reference before to my use of BHD-EXT with BE. It averaged a massive 25 pax per flight (32% LF), yet is still daily all winter. One wonders why BE can't maintain what is obviously a (relatively) popular route for them.
Frustrating.
Frustrating.
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Whats even more fustrating Cuthere is that LDY has out-performed NOC in July. NOC-EDI is 5 weekly just like LDY-MAN but NOC is as follows:
EDI 1783/40.5/52%
Yet it is going year round and better still they get MAN thrown in. There must be a disagreement somewhere between BE and LDY as it doesn;t make sense, unless BE were only commited to LDY for the specified time?
EDI 1783/40.5/52%
Yet it is going year round and better still they get MAN thrown in. There must be a disagreement somewhere between BE and LDY as it doesn;t make sense, unless BE were only commited to LDY for the specified time?
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That EXT route is the perfect example that shows something isn't quite right with BE's flight scheduling department.
In fairness, the MAN route was announced as seasonal, and isn't being stopped any earlier than previously suggested. Perhaps when the route ends in September, there'll be an announcement by Flybe saying that the continuation of the route is now bookable from March/May 2012. I still don't understand why they are invalidating their initial investment, the routes been established, and is now proving itself, but they're pulling it! I agree Carn, a majority of passengers would prefer a constant service. I bet if the route didn't operate on Tuesdays, the route in have a LF in the 70's. Dropping that would certainly mean the route was viable through winter.
Fingers crossed for some announcement from BE shortly. I really do believe we'll see that for the next Summer season, STN will go double daily also.
BTW - 80% for BHX and they were going to drop it! Silly, silly Ryanair! At 12.9% growth year rolling, LDY is the second largest growth in the UK, exceeded only by Southend!
In fairness, the MAN route was announced as seasonal, and isn't being stopped any earlier than previously suggested. Perhaps when the route ends in September, there'll be an announcement by Flybe saying that the continuation of the route is now bookable from March/May 2012. I still don't understand why they are invalidating their initial investment, the routes been established, and is now proving itself, but they're pulling it! I agree Carn, a majority of passengers would prefer a constant service. I bet if the route didn't operate on Tuesdays, the route in have a LF in the 70's. Dropping that would certainly mean the route was viable through winter.
Fingers crossed for some announcement from BE shortly. I really do believe we'll see that for the next Summer season, STN will go double daily also.
BTW - 80% for BHX and they were going to drop it! Silly, silly Ryanair! At 12.9% growth year rolling, LDY is the second largest growth in the UK, exceeded only by Southend!
Last edited by NorthernCounties; 17th Aug 2011 at 09:34.
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You can't really compare routes purely based on load factor or number of passengers carried.
The MAN-LDY may appear to be doing rather well LF wise, but no-one other than the commercial department at BE knows what the yield and is on this route.
Simple test - fare ranges on domestic routes (not very scientific but gives some idea how some routes generate a lot more revenue than others):
MAN-LDY tomorrow (Aug 18th) £65.03 one-way.
MAN-EXT tomorrow (Aug 18th) £109.52 one-way.
MAN-ABZ tomorrow (Aug 18th) £77.52 - £132.52 one-way.
MAN-SOU tomorrow (Aug 18th) £84.99 - £174.99 one-way.
MAN-NWI tomorrow (Aug 18th) £63.48 - £129.52 one-way.
MAN-EDI tomorrow (Aug 18th) £57.48 - £112.52 one-way.
Economy Plus is also another indicator, the top fare on MAN-LDY is £135.03 one-way whereas MAN-SOU is £199.99 one-way and MAN-BHD is £163.42.
Clearly BE's commercial department don't think they can charge quite as much for the LDY flights as other routes. It is a balancing act to attract as many pax as possible at the best possible fare. Charge too much, LF and revenue fall, charge too little, LF rises but revenue generated is not as high as it could/should be.
This is just the fare (inc tax) but also the amount of ancillary revenue generated from bags, seat selection, drinks & snacks etc. will also need to be included.
It could well be that MAN-LDY does OK on basic economy bookings but relatively few pax spend anything on the extras that really help make a flight profitable.
Bums on seats doesn't necessarily make a route a success.
The MAN-LDY may appear to be doing rather well LF wise, but no-one other than the commercial department at BE knows what the yield and is on this route.
Simple test - fare ranges on domestic routes (not very scientific but gives some idea how some routes generate a lot more revenue than others):
MAN-LDY tomorrow (Aug 18th) £65.03 one-way.
MAN-EXT tomorrow (Aug 18th) £109.52 one-way.
MAN-ABZ tomorrow (Aug 18th) £77.52 - £132.52 one-way.
MAN-SOU tomorrow (Aug 18th) £84.99 - £174.99 one-way.
MAN-NWI tomorrow (Aug 18th) £63.48 - £129.52 one-way.
MAN-EDI tomorrow (Aug 18th) £57.48 - £112.52 one-way.
Economy Plus is also another indicator, the top fare on MAN-LDY is £135.03 one-way whereas MAN-SOU is £199.99 one-way and MAN-BHD is £163.42.
Clearly BE's commercial department don't think they can charge quite as much for the LDY flights as other routes. It is a balancing act to attract as many pax as possible at the best possible fare. Charge too much, LF and revenue fall, charge too little, LF rises but revenue generated is not as high as it could/should be.
This is just the fare (inc tax) but also the amount of ancillary revenue generated from bags, seat selection, drinks & snacks etc. will also need to be included.
It could well be that MAN-LDY does OK on basic economy bookings but relatively few pax spend anything on the extras that really help make a flight profitable.
Bums on seats doesn't necessarily make a route a success.
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Airport fees are also likely to be lower from Knock as a result of the departure charge levied to passengers there meaning that less passengers can still generate higher yield compared to ldy-man.
Yeah, I'm aware that the BHD-EXT continues to Paris......the flight is listed as Paris/Exeter on the BHD departures board!
It was merely an example. Yield etc etc etc is obviously essential and nobody on here can start to guess whether 25 pax on a BHD-EXT flight generates as much as 48 on a LDY-MAN one.
The cost of a return between BHD and EXT is regularly over £100, no matter when one books, or it seems, how many people are on the plane. As an aside, I use the route a fair bit, and rarely see the atypical business suits on there, so I can't imagine there are very many Economy Plus passengers on board. Of course, I could be wrong, and those students I see on there now and again are indeed paying nearly £200 to get home!
It was merely an example. Yield etc etc etc is obviously essential and nobody on here can start to guess whether 25 pax on a BHD-EXT flight generates as much as 48 on a LDY-MAN one.
The cost of a return between BHD and EXT is regularly over £100, no matter when one books, or it seems, how many people are on the plane. As an aside, I use the route a fair bit, and rarely see the atypical business suits on there, so I can't imagine there are very many Economy Plus passengers on board. Of course, I could be wrong, and those students I see on there now and again are indeed paying nearly £200 to get home!
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Do FlyBE take cargo?? Could that be a factor for certain routes profitability??
The EXT route is also very convenient for ferrying employees back and forward for training / business purposes, with the BE academy and head office being in Exeter.
The EXT route is also very convenient for ferrying employees back and forward for training / business purposes, with the BE academy and head office being in Exeter.
The EXT route is also very convenient for ferrying employees back and forward for training / business purposes, with the BE academy and head office being in Exeter.
Anyway, back to LDY. It's a shame FR are going to have a total monopoly at the airport from late September. God forbid they ever fall out with CODA.
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I am aware that higher LF's doesn't necessarily mean higher yields. However, I think the fact that an airline associated with cheaper fares operates into LPL out of LDY can filter out some of the more price sensitive passengers on the LDY - MAN route, so I find it hard to believe that the reason this route is not being continued whilst for example NOC-EDI is, is down to the fact that the passengers using this route are tighter with their money than passengers at either NOC or EDI.
Tomorrow, you can fly from EDI to NOC for £66. I might be wrong but that's a slightly longer distance than LDY to MAN; has lower LF's and so to me looks cheaper. Perhaps people using this route though buy a lot of alcohol and mascara whilst in the air, but I highly doubt this is substantially more than those flying from LDY. (The reason I use mascara as an example is that a passenger behind me on my recent flight from MAN to LDY purchased such an item.)
But I hope for whatever reason NOC is getting more routes and extensions over LDY from BE works out for them. we're not jealous or anything...
Tomorrow, you can fly from EDI to NOC for £66. I might be wrong but that's a slightly longer distance than LDY to MAN; has lower LF's and so to me looks cheaper. Perhaps people using this route though buy a lot of alcohol and mascara whilst in the air, but I highly doubt this is substantially more than those flying from LDY. (The reason I use mascara as an example is that a passenger behind me on my recent flight from MAN to LDY purchased such an item.)
But I hope for whatever reason NOC is getting more routes and extensions over LDY from BE works out for them. we're not jealous or anything...
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The Edinburgh route I understand only operated five times weekly from the 10th July at Knock so load factor was closer to 60% for the month. From my knowledge the yield on EDI is good and given there is no competition from any competing airline they can probably get that bit better yield where in Manchester you have competition from FR into LPL who no doubt reduced the fares once BE came in to LDY. Similar happened to bmibaby where they had a strong route from Knock to Manchester (one of their best routes on their network until 2008) until FR came on Liverpool. Overall EDI is performing well from Knock hence the addition of Manchester and EDI going through the winter, obviously LF combined with yield isnt satisfactory for BE to continue throughout the winter