Cape Flying Services...south Africa
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Cape Flying Services
Note to the moderator of this site:
Earlier this week I posed a non-inflamatory reply to Mr Young's libellous statements regarding his flight tuition at Cape Flying Services but this has not appeared on the site.
Is this a case of bias? Why should a response from the party being libelled not be admitted?
It is only fair that some sort of rational response to Mr Young's inaccurate rantings - many of which are figments of his imagination - should be allowed, so that anyone visiting the site can make up their own minds on the issue.
I therefore look forward to seeing my response posted on this site, as soon as possible.
Naunton Pugh
Earlier this week I posed a non-inflamatory reply to Mr Young's libellous statements regarding his flight tuition at Cape Flying Services but this has not appeared on the site.
Is this a case of bias? Why should a response from the party being libelled not be admitted?
It is only fair that some sort of rational response to Mr Young's inaccurate rantings - many of which are figments of his imagination - should be allowed, so that anyone visiting the site can make up their own minds on the issue.
I therefore look forward to seeing my response posted on this site, as soon as possible.
Naunton Pugh
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Mr. Pugh, if you click back to page 4 of this thread, you'll find your post in the middle of the page. This site strongly supports the equal submission of as many points-of-view as possible and your contribution is welcomed. The only reason that a post would be removed or altered is if it is clearly offensive or likely to bring the owner or administrator of this site into disrepute or negative legal action.
4HP
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Heres the truth
I said some time ago I had an experience with CFS.
Upon posting this it will reveal my identify to the parties involved.
It is my request however my identity remain private. Whether this request is adhered to be the 3rd parties is to be seen.
I will first post the factual data so that you can see the full picture. I will then follow up with my own interpretation of events.
Here is how it went,
CFS-STALLER email
We have worked out the following amount as being due:
3.5 Hours Dual Flying @ R664.00 p/hr.......................................
R 2324.00
19 Days accommodation in the Crew House @ R35.00 p/day....... R 665.00
Total amount due R 2989.00
Please pay this direct into our Account
Cape Flying Services, Embank, George, South Africa. Account no :
##########. Swift Code NEDSZAJJ. Sort Code: ########
Kind regards CFS-CFI
Staller-CFS
Dear CFS-CFI,
Firstly, I would like you thank you and your team (Mirana, Gerald M, and especially Dean) for your help in my achieving a PPL. Admittedly it was not as smooth as it could have been but the result was the same. I am in receipt of your email regarding the outstanding fees and would like to notify you that I have today paid into your account a sum equivalent to 2779 rand and not 2989 rand as you calculated. The reason being that according to my brochure I was entitled to Four weeks accommodation (28days), which meant I overstayed 13 nights and not 19 as you stated, therefore I deducted 6 (days) x 35rand totalling 210rand from your total, I trust this is adequate.
I would however, like to express my dismay at being additionally charged any amount after the problems encountered during my stay, you know as well as I that a PPL in FOUR weeks during the winter months in George with 2 available aircraft is by no means possible, had I been told this before I left I would have accommodated accordingly, time wise and financially. Time aside, I believe that had I been able to continue flying ZS-NRY throughout and not convert to ZS-JLF towards the end of the course I would have completed much closer if not on 45 hours as opposed to the 48.5, which I’m sure is still no disgrace.
I have paid you the extra charges as I realize that you will hold my papers and prevent me gaining the license but I am still disappointed overall by the way that they came about.
I hope very much to return to CFS before the year is out with £3000 to spend, could you tell me what would be my best options presuming that I had not progressed past my current PPL stage.
Yours Sincerely,
The reply to this was
" if you dont like it go elsewhere" or very similar wording.
Secondly,
STALLER-NP
Dear NP,
I write to you to confirm I have returned from George on Tuesday successfully completing my JAA PPL course, I had an excellent time if not slightly lengthy but never the less I managed to achieve what I had intended.
I do however have some feedback for you, most importantly from my point of view an issue of finances. If you can recall just prior to my departure in May I spoke to you over the telephone regarding my concern of carrying a large sum, namely the £2545 outstanding balance of the course upon my person to George. My specific question to you was asking if Cape Flying Services had facilities for a VISA CARD transaction at the school, namely a CCD (CREDIT CARD DEPOSIT) machine to which you most definitely replied yes, therefore under your advice I refrained from withdrawing any sum of money other than my personal allowance.
Upon arrival at George I was greeted by a representative of CFS and taken to the school to complete the necessary paperwork, of course, in this period I was approached about payment and produced my VISA card in preparation of payment, it was then I was told by Marana the secretary that they had never had such facilities to pay directly by any card, let alone VISA, the worldwide standard card issuer. I was then left with only option of payment, which was to visit a bank and withdraw the cash and pay CFS with cash, here are the figures listed below,
05th May 2002
Nedbank exchange rate of 14.89 RAND = £1 as confirmed
VISA card withdrawal of equivalent £2545 (course price of £2895 -£350 deposit to yourself) = 379000 RAND, PAID INTO THE ACCOUNT OF CAPE FLYING SERVICES.
Therefore, I had paid the complete balance of the course £2895.
However, upon checking my account a few days later, I see the 37900 RAND withdrawal has equated to £2628.48 which is the £2545 plus additional Nedbank charges of £78:53 and VISA fee of £4:95
TOTALLING £83:48 more than I should have paid.
It is not the fact that I believe you misled me that really concerns me, it is the fact that had you advised me with the REAL situation, I would have proceeded to travel with £2545 and therefore would have incurred no charges whatsoever as that was the outstanding balance due. I have consulted with GT who advises me to conclude this issue with you, I have also spoken with Barclays Bank Ltd, whom my account is with and have evidence to confirm these figures.
I believe that it be just and fair that you refund the overcharge of £83:48 as a matter of decency and goodwill.
I hope we can resolve this matter without further issue.
Yours Sincerely
To which no settlement was ever agreed, because it became a case of neither GT OR NP accepting the blame.
Your questions are welcome, no doubt they will be of mixed thoughts!
Staller
Upon posting this it will reveal my identify to the parties involved.
It is my request however my identity remain private. Whether this request is adhered to be the 3rd parties is to be seen.
I will first post the factual data so that you can see the full picture. I will then follow up with my own interpretation of events.
Here is how it went,
CFS-STALLER email
We have worked out the following amount as being due:
3.5 Hours Dual Flying @ R664.00 p/hr.......................................
R 2324.00
19 Days accommodation in the Crew House @ R35.00 p/day....... R 665.00
Total amount due R 2989.00
Please pay this direct into our Account
Cape Flying Services, Embank, George, South Africa. Account no :
##########. Swift Code NEDSZAJJ. Sort Code: ########
Kind regards CFS-CFI
Staller-CFS
Dear CFS-CFI,
Firstly, I would like you thank you and your team (Mirana, Gerald M, and especially Dean) for your help in my achieving a PPL. Admittedly it was not as smooth as it could have been but the result was the same. I am in receipt of your email regarding the outstanding fees and would like to notify you that I have today paid into your account a sum equivalent to 2779 rand and not 2989 rand as you calculated. The reason being that according to my brochure I was entitled to Four weeks accommodation (28days), which meant I overstayed 13 nights and not 19 as you stated, therefore I deducted 6 (days) x 35rand totalling 210rand from your total, I trust this is adequate.
I would however, like to express my dismay at being additionally charged any amount after the problems encountered during my stay, you know as well as I that a PPL in FOUR weeks during the winter months in George with 2 available aircraft is by no means possible, had I been told this before I left I would have accommodated accordingly, time wise and financially. Time aside, I believe that had I been able to continue flying ZS-NRY throughout and not convert to ZS-JLF towards the end of the course I would have completed much closer if not on 45 hours as opposed to the 48.5, which I’m sure is still no disgrace.
I have paid you the extra charges as I realize that you will hold my papers and prevent me gaining the license but I am still disappointed overall by the way that they came about.
I hope very much to return to CFS before the year is out with £3000 to spend, could you tell me what would be my best options presuming that I had not progressed past my current PPL stage.
Yours Sincerely,
The reply to this was
" if you dont like it go elsewhere" or very similar wording.
Secondly,
STALLER-NP
Dear NP,
I write to you to confirm I have returned from George on Tuesday successfully completing my JAA PPL course, I had an excellent time if not slightly lengthy but never the less I managed to achieve what I had intended.
I do however have some feedback for you, most importantly from my point of view an issue of finances. If you can recall just prior to my departure in May I spoke to you over the telephone regarding my concern of carrying a large sum, namely the £2545 outstanding balance of the course upon my person to George. My specific question to you was asking if Cape Flying Services had facilities for a VISA CARD transaction at the school, namely a CCD (CREDIT CARD DEPOSIT) machine to which you most definitely replied yes, therefore under your advice I refrained from withdrawing any sum of money other than my personal allowance.
Upon arrival at George I was greeted by a representative of CFS and taken to the school to complete the necessary paperwork, of course, in this period I was approached about payment and produced my VISA card in preparation of payment, it was then I was told by Marana the secretary that they had never had such facilities to pay directly by any card, let alone VISA, the worldwide standard card issuer. I was then left with only option of payment, which was to visit a bank and withdraw the cash and pay CFS with cash, here are the figures listed below,
05th May 2002
Nedbank exchange rate of 14.89 RAND = £1 as confirmed
VISA card withdrawal of equivalent £2545 (course price of £2895 -£350 deposit to yourself) = 379000 RAND, PAID INTO THE ACCOUNT OF CAPE FLYING SERVICES.
Therefore, I had paid the complete balance of the course £2895.
However, upon checking my account a few days later, I see the 37900 RAND withdrawal has equated to £2628.48 which is the £2545 plus additional Nedbank charges of £78:53 and VISA fee of £4:95
TOTALLING £83:48 more than I should have paid.
It is not the fact that I believe you misled me that really concerns me, it is the fact that had you advised me with the REAL situation, I would have proceeded to travel with £2545 and therefore would have incurred no charges whatsoever as that was the outstanding balance due. I have consulted with GT who advises me to conclude this issue with you, I have also spoken with Barclays Bank Ltd, whom my account is with and have evidence to confirm these figures.
I believe that it be just and fair that you refund the overcharge of £83:48 as a matter of decency and goodwill.
I hope we can resolve this matter without further issue.
Yours Sincerely
To which no settlement was ever agreed, because it became a case of neither GT OR NP accepting the blame.
Your questions are welcome, no doubt they will be of mixed thoughts!
Staller
GunsssR4ever
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Dear Mr Todd,
You succesfully gave 5 out of 6 students that we send to you a PPL.
We clearly told you only three will make it
Now I have to teach 5 to fly helicopters. They also say "goeie more" "hoe gaan dit " etc ...
They love pap and hate rice.
They want to go back for CPL's at their own cost.
I send you my invoice as soon as possible but it will be Le 1 000.000. 00
You can pay it in installments as at today's sexchange it will work out at $ 445.00 We also charge VAT here but because they brought pap with them and a Hustler mag for me - forget about that.
So you are a bad, sad person and we all hate you
You succesfully gave 5 out of 6 students that we send to you a PPL.
We clearly told you only three will make it
Now I have to teach 5 to fly helicopters. They also say "goeie more" "hoe gaan dit " etc ...
They love pap and hate rice.
They want to go back for CPL's at their own cost.
I send you my invoice as soon as possible but it will be Le 1 000.000. 00
You can pay it in installments as at today's sexchange it will work out at $ 445.00 We also charge VAT here but because they brought pap with them and a Hustler mag for me - forget about that.
So you are a bad, sad person and we all hate you
GunsssR4ever
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Oh and AO said you owe him $25 as he had side bets he will not make the course but you bad people passed him 
Eischhh life is so bad ...
PS: How is the weather - we have serious thunderstorms now and our "poor" Alouette had a booster Pump failure - first one I have ever ehard of in 25 years.
Take care.
Vivaaaa CFS
Yes Naughty Naughtona and Sanjo they pay me to say this ... can I send you my banking details ???
Eischhh life is so bad ...
PS: How is the weather - we have serious thunderstorms now and our "poor" Alouette had a booster Pump failure - first one I have ever ehard of in 25 years.
Take care.
Vivaaaa CFS
Yes Naughty Naughtona and Sanjo they pay me to say this ... can I send you my banking details ???
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Hiya Gunns
Not going to post or probably even open this site again, unfortunately it provides a medium that can be abused by any individual to discredit whoever they like with very little, if any, recourse….even some twit that wants us to pay for an international credit card transaction. I won’t disclose his name, however the only reason I can think of as to why he may not want it mentioned, is that he ripped someone else that allowed him to fly into credit, and didn’t retain the paperwork.
I have a video of the course and a watch that belongs to one of the guys, together with AO and Philip’s licence, let me know via e-mail where I should send the stuff. Perhaps I should drop it at home, I have to pop by sometime soon…………..and scotch or two might be in order
Gerald
Not going to post or probably even open this site again, unfortunately it provides a medium that can be abused by any individual to discredit whoever they like with very little, if any, recourse….even some twit that wants us to pay for an international credit card transaction. I won’t disclose his name, however the only reason I can think of as to why he may not want it mentioned, is that he ripped someone else that allowed him to fly into credit, and didn’t retain the paperwork.
I have a video of the course and a watch that belongs to one of the guys, together with AO and Philip’s licence, let me know via e-mail where I should send the stuff. Perhaps I should drop it at home, I have to pop by sometime soon…………..and scotch or two might be in order
Gerald
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Please do not leave us but if I where you I would also let the twits and twats post what they want and ignore them on an open forum.
I personally also think it has gone too far.
If a guy can not mail - phone you personally - let him fly away ..
Eischh that was nicely said
Good Luck with your great Flying School and I will mail you on your questions.
Cheers,
Gunnzzz (PS: God Willing : Home 30 June to 8 Aug )
I personally also think it has gone too far.
If a guy can not mail - phone you personally - let him fly away ..
Eischh that was nicely said Good Luck with your great Flying School and I will mail you on your questions.
Cheers,
Gunnzzz (PS: God Willing : Home 30 June to 8 Aug )
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posted 27th May 2004 21:53
"Staller please e-mail me, perhaps we can still resolve things, on the face of it this seems so silly, though I can’t remember what made me so angry.
Gerald Todd"
posted 29th May 2004 15:56 extract
"even some twit that wants us to pay for an international credit card transaction. I won’t disclose his name, however the only reason I can think of as to why he may not want it mentioned, is that he ripped someone else that allowed him to fly into credit, and didn’t retain the paperwork."
For all concerned my name is
Lee Gearing I have nothing to hide.
I believe Mr.Todd you have just shown your true backstabbing colours!!!!
A real life Jekyll and Hyde character!
"Staller please e-mail me, perhaps we can still resolve things, on the face of it this seems so silly, though I can’t remember what made me so angry.
Gerald Todd"
posted 29th May 2004 15:56 extract
"even some twit that wants us to pay for an international credit card transaction. I won’t disclose his name, however the only reason I can think of as to why he may not want it mentioned, is that he ripped someone else that allowed him to fly into credit, and didn’t retain the paperwork."
For all concerned my name is
Lee Gearing I have nothing to hide.
I believe Mr.Todd you have just shown your true backstabbing colours!!!!
A real life Jekyll and Hyde character!
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To Guns, with 1477 posts maybe it is expected that you should know better and expected to be impartial ( if you can) than to get drawn into the nuts and bolts of this particular topic or case!
There is a lot more going on with this (legal) case than has already been divulged to this forum or this thread, these matters, or certainly my side, will be fully presented to this forum when and only when the time is right and not before the legal case between myself and Mr Pugh has been concluded in due course and this case is due to be heard in Pterborough County Court on 29th June 2004.
Further, there is no legal argument or at least I can see no reason, for any party to use any comment placed within this forum to use to his advantage, other than for the good of South African aviation in general, in any legal matter either ongoing or potential future legal proceedings, either against, CFS South Africa or/ and Mr Pugh t/a CFS (Europe) as each case will be treated solely on it's own merits within the appropriate court as is the case for any democracy.
My case has or allegedly has it's own merits that will be argued upon when the time is right, irrespective of whatever comments used.
I am keenly watching, like others, with great interest the general agruments presented before this forum.
Regards,
Sandy
There is a lot more going on with this (legal) case than has already been divulged to this forum or this thread, these matters, or certainly my side, will be fully presented to this forum when and only when the time is right and not before the legal case between myself and Mr Pugh has been concluded in due course and this case is due to be heard in Pterborough County Court on 29th June 2004.
Further, there is no legal argument or at least I can see no reason, for any party to use any comment placed within this forum to use to his advantage, other than for the good of South African aviation in general, in any legal matter either ongoing or potential future legal proceedings, either against, CFS South Africa or/ and Mr Pugh t/a CFS (Europe) as each case will be treated solely on it's own merits within the appropriate court as is the case for any democracy.
My case has or allegedly has it's own merits that will be argued upon when the time is right, irrespective of whatever comments used.
I am keenly watching, like others, with great interest the general agruments presented before this forum.
Regards,
Sandy
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To sanjo69 (with 27 posts) of which not ONE post has anything positive to do with flying .. If I had 27 posts (or 7 for that matter Staller) ... I would take a deep hard look at myself to what I have done for PPRUNE ... For you two ... sadly NOTHING !
So put your Posts where it counts (when someone can learn from it and not the negative derogative rubbish you dream up.
Staller .. me and Gerald Todd the same man ... you are a sick individuel to think that out
Come and show your face at the PPRUNE party and you can throw banter as you wish ... ask the 20 odd guys that I have met at the PPRUNE party who is Gunns and who is Gerald Todd ... shame ..
Cheers,
Case close (for me anyhow - and ignore mode on this thread).
So put your Posts where it counts (when someone can learn from it and not the negative derogative rubbish you dream up.
Staller .. me and Gerald Todd the same man ... you are a sick individuel to think that out
Come and show your face at the PPRUNE party and you can throw banter as you wish ... ask the 20 odd guys that I have met at the PPRUNE party who is Gunns and who is Gerald Todd ... shame ..
Cheers,
Case close (for me anyhow - and ignore mode on this thread).
Last edited by Gunship; 2nd Jun 2004 at 20:03.
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Mr.
Do us a favour - do NOT think your failed renewal and time on a C150, plus a ride in a Dak qualifies you to make statements on other peoples characters.
Maybe you should take note of the "Gunss" and leave well enough alone..
Gunss - the word "Troll" springs to mind... (again).
R
Do us a favour - do NOT think your failed renewal and time on a C150, plus a ride in a Dak qualifies you to make statements on other peoples characters.
Maybe you should take note of the "Gunss" and leave well enough alone..
Gunss - the word "Troll" springs to mind... (again).
R
Last edited by Jetdriver; 3rd Jun 2004 at 00:48.
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A few more words spring to mind as well
Like I have said before I think this forum needs a thread where all the facts about training in South Africa are presented in an impartial fashion to prevent the knee jerk reactions most people will naturally be drawn into when reading some of the comments on here.
Like I have said before I think this forum needs a thread where all the facts about training in South Africa are presented in an impartial fashion to prevent the knee jerk reactions most people will naturally be drawn into when reading some of the comments on here.
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GT if this forum were to have a thread where impartial views on any subject were aired (just how you're going to ascertain or verify "impartial" I'm not too sure) then we'd be remiss in forgetting the true nature of this site - it's a rumour network and all views are welcome. Just don't take what you read as verbatim.
4HP
4HP
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I had started writing a long response but decided after much thought to respond by using the following quote!
Regards
Sandy
If I had placed only one thread on PPrune, ever, even just to highlight the problem with Cape Flying Services (Europe) and it's business "relationship" with Mr Todd in South Africa then I strongly consider that this posting within this forum would be regarded as a quality posting that is confirmed by some of the replies, notwithstanding, the amount of fellow ppruners who have visited it so far.
Regards
Sandy
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Your assumptions are grossly inaccurate sonny.
Dear Rhodie and George Tower (are you really from the atc George???)
Spit your words out by all means!!
"Do us a favour - do NOT think your failed renewal and time on a C150, plus a ride in a Dak qualifies you to make statements on other peoples characters."
For your info my license is current and I am rated on several piston aircraft, nr, twin rt, and the DC3 rating to follow at some stage, with ATPL exams underway. I achieved this with a very reputable school in JHB.
Your absolutly right though, this doesnt qualify me to make statements on other peoples characters, it does however qualify me to share my opinions, which are being substanciated. I will keep my humble opinions of you to my self!!!
troll
in Scandinavian folklore, an ugly manlike creature that lived in a cave or under a bridge.
Opinionated
Definition 1. having definite and unchangeable opinions, often seemingly on all subjects.
Spit your words out by all means!!
"Do us a favour - do NOT think your failed renewal and time on a C150, plus a ride in a Dak qualifies you to make statements on other peoples characters."
For your info my license is current and I am rated on several piston aircraft, nr, twin rt, and the DC3 rating to follow at some stage, with ATPL exams underway. I achieved this with a very reputable school in JHB.
Your absolutly right though, this doesnt qualify me to make statements on other peoples characters, it does however qualify me to share my opinions, which are being substanciated. I will keep my humble opinions of you to my self!!!
troll
in Scandinavian folklore, an ugly manlike creature that lived in a cave or under a bridge.
Opinionated
Definition 1. having definite and unchangeable opinions, often seemingly on all subjects.
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I have not spoken one word other than the truth on this forum and dont plan to either. Why should I, SA is my second home, family friends etc..
Sometimes, the truth hurts.
Sometimes, the truth hurts.
Last edited by Jetdriver; 3rd Jun 2004 at 00:49.