Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > African Aviation
Reload this Page >

Is aviation in Africa really unsafe?

Wikiposts
Search
African Aviation Regional issues that affect the numerous pilots who work in this area of the world.

Is aviation in Africa really unsafe?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 23rd Jun 2011, 11:31
  #81 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Germany
Age: 76
Posts: 1,561
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Yes, I used to work in Saigon, not Ho Chi Minh City, and when I left, we were winning! Don't ask me what went wrong there.... Never mind.

Zimbabwean Ridgebacks. Whatever next?

I bet you told her about how people used to visit Rhodesia to see the ruins of Zimbabwe but now they visit Zimbabwe to see the ruins of Rhodesia! That was mean of you, when I simply would have set the dog on her.

No, when you learn all about aviation from your Big Book of Planes, all about ICAO and all, and then go out into the hard, cruel world to see its reality, well, that is about like learning about 'racism' in Sociology Class and then seeing how that one plays out on the ground in Africa.

The first time I heard one Nigerian call another a 'yellow man' I thought, 'Gee, they never told us about this when we were discussing "racism," it was all about de White Mastah and his sjambok! Why did they leave this out?' Well, Dummy, because it would have made things too damned complicated!

Here we have to deal with mixing those two ideals, aviation and race relations, in the real world. Personally, I think I would rather play with a hand grenade with the pin straightened; it is safer. Perhaps we had better say 'aviation and cultural differences,' since I really do not see this as a black and white thing. You get good guys and muppets in both colors, so that the African safety problems the Doctor is asking about, I do not see those coming from race.
chuks is offline  
Old 23rd Jun 2011, 17:55
  #82 (permalink)  
Está servira para distraerle.
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: In a perambulator.
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
There are two curses, among others, which have enlivened my life and which have always allowed me to claim to be the very model of an anti-racist.
I had the great good fortune to be born in Glasgow during one of the interminable wars which Britain has, over centuries and generally for reasons of colonial expansion, known to some as Liebensraum, got herself into and from which her allies have always had to extricate her.
Then my great, great grand uncle was hanged, my apologies for this, by the South for running a Slave Underground just prior to the US Civil War. Those that rumple my hair on a damp day, especially now that there's the odd gray fleck about, often comment that perhaps my great, greatly endowed grand uncle had engaged in a little more activity with a dusky southern belle than simply helping her heaving buttocks across the Mason Dixon Line.
Because of these extraordinary accidents of birth and ancestry I cannot possibly be accused of racism no matter what ridicule I choose to pour upon the Scots, the British and the descendants of Ham. In passing any comment whatsoever on any of these species of humanity, I do but poke fun upon myself and upon all my own genealogy and that of course is exactly what racism is not about at all. It is noted with regret that, while there may still be Rhodesian Ridgebacks, French Poodles and Moscow Mules, there are no more British Bulldogs.
cavortingcheetah is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2011, 06:11
  #83 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Far, far away.....
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Chuk and cavortingcheeteah.....

What do you know! Sometimes logic, rhetoric, dry humour and a little bit of history teaches some truths that are so basic and yet easily missed in our quest for self preservation. That is:
"Being human means our lives, (past, present and future) are somewhat inextricably linked".

Some of us will always remain grateful to all who defied inhuman norms and put themselves in harms way, that all humans should be treated justly and fairly. A lot of good men and women (of all colours) paid with their lives so that others may live.
Cavortingcheetah your great great grand uncle is one of such heroes. People like him still inspire people to redress the wrongs that still plague our societies. We may not achieve it in our lifetime, but we'll definitely not sit by and watch.
I believe many share the sentiments echoed by Edmund Burke; (paraphrased) "evil thrives (continually), only when good people do nothing".
It's has more to do our with our individual and collective perception, than colour of our skins.

To all contributing to this thread, many thanks for your input no matter how incongruent or dissonant our views may seem, there's always a lesson to be learned.
DRPAM007 is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2011, 15:45
  #84 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: atlanta
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Foxcotte said

" ...And lastly the reason a majority of pilots take up flying as a career - its not because they are passionate about flying, and spend all their days dreaming of being in the air, watching birds fly and wind effects etc. No, its often seen as a career that gets you out of Africa, paid opportunities to settle in the West, supply families and relatives with Western goods etc.. "

Whao! damn, now I see why so many Kenyan airways, SAA, Ethiopian airlines, air mauritious, air namibia...ect pilots are leaving in mass for the west. They will at last be able to supply their families with western goods and stuffs......I just didn't know man.....
jnignon is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2011, 16:07
  #85 (permalink)  
Está servira para distraerle.
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: In a perambulator.
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
There's a rumor to the effect that SAA, among other African based airlines, are about to issue their senior captains with swagger sticks. The precise purpose for which these will be used, other than self adornment, is not specified. It's understood however that the idea sprang from a Ugandan initiative.
cavortingcheetah is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2011, 16:20
  #86 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Planet Tharg
Posts: 2,472
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Dash it all, man! The swagger stick is to smack the starboard lookout on the fingers if he dares touch anything.
Solid Rust Twotter is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2011, 16:28
  #87 (permalink)  
Está servira para distraerle.
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: In a perambulator.
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Then it's not a night stop standby for Captain Vuka Nkuzi?
cavortingcheetah is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2011, 07:32
  #88 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: bush
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Some perspective:

"If you were admitted to hospital tomorrow in any country... your chances of being subjected to an error in your care would be something like 1 in 10. Your chances of dying due to an error in health care would be 1 in 300," Liam Donaldson, the WHO's newly appointed envoy for patient safety, told a news briefing.

This compared with a risk of dying in an air crash of about 1 in 10 million passengers, according to Donaldson, formerly England's chief medical officer.


Source: Going into hospital far riskier than flying: WHO | Reuters

So while flying in africa is more dangerous than elsewhere, it is still much safer than going to a hospital. Then again, hospitals in africa are also much more scary than hospitals in developed countries

Of course I don't mean that we should accept the current african aviation safety as "acceptable risk". Often complacency is as dangerous than incompetence. I've seen too many people who skip procedures because they believe that know what they are doing. Why bother circling the strip when "everyone knows" that our Antonov is approaching around this time? etc.

ps. also from the same text: About 100,000 hospitals worldwide now use the WHO's surgical safety checklist, which the agency said has been shown to reduce surgery complications by 33 percent and deaths by 50 percent.

Borrowing procedures from aviation they seem...

Safe landings (and safe drive to hotel!).
keitaidenwa is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2011, 09:30
  #89 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Kenya
Posts: 239
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
To add to this, check out the thread I posted about a recent power failure at JKIA at night that wiped out all basic ATC equipment (radar/ILS/radio) leaving a whole bunch of small aircraft and large airliners floundering around in the dark dodging each other and making their own - unofficial/unsanctioned - divert procedures in order to reach the ground safely. It was madness and utter chaos. JKIA is supposed to have an independent back-up power system if not two back-up systems. Fat lot of good that did.

I just can't imagine that happening outside of this area - it really does bring a whole new meaning to the "Dark Continent". So yes, do I think flying in Africa is unsafe? You're not bloody kidding after this fiasco!!!! And will it happen again - definitely. Will someone take responsibility for what happened? No. Will the politicians give it the proper priority to sort out and prevent happening again - very doubtful. Its not a case of if there will be another local aviation catastrophe with loss of life, but when. Sadly.
Foxcotte is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2011, 08:10
  #90 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Kenya
Posts: 239
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Just to add in to this thread, check out the one on the lights out at JKIA this week! JKIA is supposed to be an international standard airport - and in my book that means having one power back up if not two. Whatever they have at JKIA it isn't working! How can airliners and small planes be left floundering around in the dark trying to stay safe and miss each other without any ATC backup??

It brings a whole new meaning to the phrase "Dark Continent" but to be honest, its not a joking matter. But will anyone take responsibility for what happened - No. Will any politician/authority take proper steps to prevent it happening again - unlikely. Will there be another major incident with loss of life - sadly, mostly probably. Is aviation in Africa unsafe - in my opinion after this latest debacle - most definitely.
Foxcotte is offline  
Old 4th Aug 2011, 16:38
  #91 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Far, far away.....
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The Ghost of Christmas past...

It does mean that ignoring the situation does not make it go away, neither does criticizing the lack of accountability and poor performance of those responsible for delivering safe, regular and efficient operations in the region dissolve the threats that exist in the system.
No funding directed to upgrade infrastructure, training institutions and maintenance facilities? Sounds like even the current poor safety record is heading further south!
Something that's striking around here is professionals in this region (Pilot, engineers, air traffic controllers, dispatchers, cabin crew) at best just hang around blowing hot air, and watch the accident statistics go through the roof. The politicians are just interested in the next election, the technocrats are planning for a cozy retirement. These two groups are quite happy as long as airplanes fly around, even if they are ALL foreign airlines based outside the continent.
The professionals in this region should bear in mind that at this rate, they'll become extinct either from the accidents, retirements, attrition, obsolete due to outdated training, lack of replacement personnel, poaching of man-power, immigration, and a plethora of other factors.

Growing aviation activity on the continent is external driven leading to further capital flight for the regions' governments and airlines.
At the moment, established foreign carriers are opening more new routes on the continent than African airlines themselves. At the same time African airlines are getting blacklisted from flying out of the continent due to " safety concerns". It is people that create safety through practice ( Syd Dekker).

The myopic passivity and complacency of the professional organisations on the continent is costing the industry valuable time that may make any resuscitation of the comatose systems past praying for.

All that's needed for evil to thrive is when good people do nothing; ( thinking it's someone else's job!) Any takers?
DRPAM007 is offline  
Old 4th Aug 2011, 18:40
  #92 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Queensland
Age: 65
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Africa = Danger

747-200 freighter from an arab country, we tech-stopped at Khartoum because kerosene is cheap there and somebody's cousin has the concession. Leaving there, headed for Accra (approx due W), the flight plan has us going due S for hundreds of miles apparently to avoid overflying Sudan, some political bullsnot or other, I supposed. We had tried hard, but were unsuccessful in getting the route changed before departure.

So, now, we are headed south toward the equatorial convergence zone FILLED with massive build-ups and planned to fly 500 + miles out of our way through the aforementioned area. So, what was my "executive" decision ?
Immediately after exiting the departure area, I turned right and headed direct Accra, straight across Sudan saving over an hour of flying time and flying just N of all the fireworks. Made a few position reports as if we were on our route, then stopped, and picked up again, hours later, only a couple hundred miles from Accra. Nobody even questioned us. We landed with lots of extra gas saved and after a very restful flight, away from all storms and without fighting the HF comm traffic.
And that is just one reason Africa is dangerous, I know that we were not the only "rogue whale" plying the African skies that day or every other day.... but, hey, to quote John Wayne, "A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do"
BossyAussy is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2011, 03:12
  #93 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Far, far away.....
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
“Silly Pilot, rushing for a beer in Accra= danger”

Hi BossyAussy,

Thanks for being frank and open about your African experience. I can imagine it was’nt a walk in the park for you and your fellow crew members. It’s no surprise you inappropriately tagged your post “Africa= Danger".

However, I must say that this is a classic case of a “supposedly” suitably qualified, competent, experienced and responsible aviation professional doing extremely dangerous and stupid things. The real danger in your narrative was not the lack of ATC approval to change your flight-plan route, or the tropical storms, or the potential conflict in the Sudanese airspace.



The real danger was “YOU” the captain of the flight and( by association) your copilot , who should have been the voice of reason in this sad self incriminating narrative of multiple safety and ethical violations.

I assume you hold a valid ATPL from a country with ( supposedly) unquestionable training standards( Australia or USA), which details the role and responsibilities of the commander before and during a flight. Your license and role require that you plan and conduct the flight in a safe manner after obtaining the relevant information pertinent to your route; weather, fuel, notams, etc. I flown into Australia regularly for the past 4 years and I Know how your CASA and ATC demand strict compliance of all applicable regulations.
If you were faced with similar circumstances in Aussie-land, will you have the audacity to carry out the same actions you described in your narrative?

We all know law allows you to deviate from your flight plan for reasons of flight safety, however, there are contingency procedures which you are expected to comply with. Where you unaware of these procedures or in your opinion, your violations were the best options. You have 121.5, 126.9, ACARS, CPDLC, etc if you need to avoid weather or have an in-flight emergency.

You wrongly assume your aircraft position will not be detected because you’re not under an ATC radar controller but don’t forget there are other types of radar. You do know that if you have a mode S transponder, aircraft equipped with ADS-B display can track you. Unless, of course you intentionally switched off your transponder to evade being detected on radar? (Procedural violation).



I assume you also know that both N’Djamena and Niamey FIRS have got ADS/CPDLC albeit on trial basis.
You’re also aware that in NAT MNPS airspace you may not be under radar control or CPDLC equipped, your position is still being actively tracked.

In addition to intentionally leaving your cleared route without ATC authorization (airspace violation) you also decided ( while on an IFR flight plan and IMC conditions?) to mislead both monitoring ATC as well as other aircraft by passing fake position reports. (license violation).

If you had needed any search and rescue, your intentional lying about your position will possibly compromise the successful outcome of the service without a valid ELT signal.


Also, if you indeed kept a navigation log, did you make false entries to correspond with your deceitful position reports or did you recorded the actual aircraft position(License violation).

Did your employer know that you placed their $USD130million investment at risk by iintentionally entering hazardous airspace that your notams required you to avoid? You were lucky to escape without being intercepted or worse still shot down by of the warring factions.


You know that you're expected to file an ASR for this kind of event, considering that you believe Africa posed a danger to your flight. It'll make interesting reading.


You misunderstand the essence behind the commanders’ discretion or “executive decision”. It is not the power to complete a flight by any means even if it endangering lives and property. It is using sound judgement to minimize risk in the face of extraordinary threats to flight safety. Sadly the threats were the two of you in that cockpit.

You had all the safe options any competent crew would consider. Like, delay the flight and file a new flight plan, wait for the storm to pass, or take extra fuel ( you said it was cheap there) to navigate around them.


Did you take these risks because you were under some commercial pressure, duty hours, license expires at midnight, or you just fancied doing things a bit different?

At the end of your post, I sense a feeling of guilt, for you referred to yourself as “rogue whale” (nice catch phrase for “Silly Pilot”) and then tried to use John Wayne as an excuse for your cowboy behavior. I hope you know that John Wayne is not a real cowboy, but and actor with fake bullets; and you are not an actor, but a real Pilot with and if you were shot at in the Sudan, the bullets will be real.

BossyAussy, you are most likely not an African, but you have come to constitute a serious safety threat to the African airspace as exhibited by your own narrative. It just takes the biscuit to see people who should know better, making things more difficult for those working hard to see safer African skies.

What did you expect, with such a thoughtless post? A pat in the back and a
“Well done matey, for running the gauntlet and making it out in one piece”?

All you’ve shown is Africa airspace is endangered by the risk takers like yourself, people who think they’ll always get away with “willful violations”. It is also the responsibility of all well-meaning professionals who read such postings on Pprune to condemn the reckless disregard for safe practices exhibited by people like you.
If you have any doubts as to your actions, send your narrative on the conduct of the flight in question to CASA, FAA or wherever your license was issued and let me know if it got revoked or just suspended.

By the way, a more appropriate title to your post should be “Silly Pilot, rushing for a beer in Accra= danger ”

Last edited by DRPAM007; 7th Aug 2011 at 16:27.
DRPAM007 is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2011, 08:13
  #94 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Langata, Kenya
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
DRPAM007, are you done lecturing? This is supposed to be a light-hearted thread on the vagaries of flying in Africa

I'd like to see you be the one to step up and change things. If you've ever flown here, you'll know how hard (if not impossible) it is. Shame everything isn't as black and white as you would have us believe from your post.
Lamyna Flo is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2011, 10:47
  #95 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Far, far away.....
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hello Lamyna Flo,
Thanks for dropping in. Not meaning to disappoint you, but this thread seeks to answer the African safety question and explore possible causes and solutions to the problem.
Pprune is a great, reputable and light hearted site, but there's nothing light hearted about violations that have lead to fatal accidents in the past that have given aviation in Africa such a bad reputation

I have flown exclusively in Africa for over 12 years, charter and schedule, pax and cargo, DHC6 to B737.However, in the past 6 years, I fly into Africa about once a month So I am not oblivious of the challenges involved. I have flown extensively in the Sudan area, so i know that even little strips and outposts like Nyala and El-Fasher have met offices and towers where you can file a valid flight plan. I was trained as a pilot in Africa.

We have to end this misconception that Africa is a danger zone! It is how people (black, white, local, expats, low time or experienced) behave there that constitutes a danger to the place. when they cross N30, they become sane and obey the rules and become agents of safety again.

The above scenario will have ended it the following headlines:
"747 freighter and AN-24 mid air collision in the Sudan". And I guess we'll be having a different discussion by now.
Hypothetically: If the flight was a passenger charter carrying your family to Accra and back to Khartoum in a week. Having read BossyAussy's post, How would you feel knowing he's to scheduled to fly your family back to Khartoum in a week?
Breaking laws and getting away with it is a regrettable feature of those using this airspace and it has got to stop.
I'll like to see someone try this same hat-trick in UK airspace or the USA.

Last edited by DRPAM007; 16th Aug 2011 at 00:41.
DRPAM007 is offline  
Old 6th Aug 2011, 15:07
  #96 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Nowhere nice
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
DRPAM007,

I thoroughly appreciate and applaud your efforts to endorse proper airmanship and good practice on the dark continent. Not to mention as well through ,albeit lighthearted, discussion.

However, the situation of our friend seems a bit unique in the sense of the type he was driving. I for one wouldn't want to be thinking about a short notice alt in a 747 classic over just about most continents let alone Africa.

Whether or not he was in a Classic though or a 152 the risk of mid airs in "controlled" airspace in "stable" countries are, at best, significant. With anything causing concern from another widebody, clapped out l-100 or a large depressed bird who found out his hatchings have different coloured feathers to him.

There have also been no incidences from what I have heard recently of any military threat to flights in the region, though not to say there is non (same could be applied to a few regions - who's to say the LRA haven't got a stinger or two?).

I'm completely unrelated to the flight but just my two cents. Well done to said pilot and DRPAM007.
brisdude is offline  
Old 6th Aug 2011, 16:29
  #97 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: eu
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You are just amateurs...go read your books about flying...real life is another thing...I am with you Aussie....I would do the same..ATC in Africa?? Sudan??? hahaha yeah right....and rules??? in Sudan or Angola or...??? whatever haha
bbratuse is offline  
Old 6th Aug 2011, 16:35
  #98 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: eu
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
P.S. And 747 and AN-24...you are kidding right?? jesus christ...go read books again...usual separation is 15,000 ft...as per max ceiling...my god what a bunch of kids here
bbratuse is offline  
Old 7th Aug 2011, 01:14
  #99 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virginia
Age: 67
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Target practice

I'm surprised no one has discussed how often non-military aircraft have been shot down in Africa.

I'm well aware that things in Angola have improved but I know of no other region of the world where civilian aviation has been so actively targeted. If you don't know the history of shoot downs in Angola, its a scary but fascinating lesson. Given events at Mogadishu, just how much has changed?
FunkyStick is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2011, 14:20
  #100 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: south africa
Posts: 423
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I still love flying in Africa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
four engine jock is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.