Is aviation in Africa really unsafe?
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Finding a responsible authority anywhere in the world is a pretty big ask.
Noone cares about africa. The quote from blood diamond has summed up world opinion. TIA. This is Africa.
Even if you did report it to a authority that WANTED to do something, getting them into that country to do anything about it is another story again.
When the white man comes to africa offering money, they are all ears. They will take the money and nothing will change. It gets siphoned off and a half assed attempt is made to give the white man something. The white man walks away feeling like they have changed lives. Corrupt officials are richer, people that need it probably didn't even know the money existed and there is a new object there that will be broken within a few years.
When a white man comes demanding that something is changed or built to improve safety, they are met with a smile and a nod and nothing will be done. Perhaps a failed attempt will be made, but the end result will be the same.
To change what you are wanting to change, you are asking for an entire culture to be changed. Or an enormous amount of money with strict and controlled oversight of expenditure. Either way, its not going to happen.
Two years ago I read that "Botswana is the least corrupt country in Africa." It was still ranked around 130th least corrupt in the world.
I still maintain that the only thing that will change aviation in africa is ourselves in the way we go about our duties in the cockpit and the willingness to say no to the operators. Not the authorities, as it is a waste of time.
Noone cares about africa. The quote from blood diamond has summed up world opinion. TIA. This is Africa.
Even if you did report it to a authority that WANTED to do something, getting them into that country to do anything about it is another story again.
When the white man comes to africa offering money, they are all ears. They will take the money and nothing will change. It gets siphoned off and a half assed attempt is made to give the white man something. The white man walks away feeling like they have changed lives. Corrupt officials are richer, people that need it probably didn't even know the money existed and there is a new object there that will be broken within a few years.
When a white man comes demanding that something is changed or built to improve safety, they are met with a smile and a nod and nothing will be done. Perhaps a failed attempt will be made, but the end result will be the same.
To change what you are wanting to change, you are asking for an entire culture to be changed. Or an enormous amount of money with strict and controlled oversight of expenditure. Either way, its not going to happen.
Two years ago I read that "Botswana is the least corrupt country in Africa." It was still ranked around 130th least corrupt in the world.
I still maintain that the only thing that will change aviation in africa is ourselves in the way we go about our duties in the cockpit and the willingness to say no to the operators. Not the authorities, as it is a waste of time.
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@DRPAM007
Stop being a troll, and tell us how it went when you didn't pay the bribe.
You are being all high and mighty about this, expecting others to live by your moral code, yet you have not answered a single pointed question (politician) nor have you told us of a single occasion where you did not give (or take, mr. politician) a bribe...
we await with baited breath to hear the result of you taking the action which you expect others to perform (not).
Stop being a troll, and tell us how it went when you didn't pay the bribe.
You are being all high and mighty about this, expecting others to live by your moral code, yet you have not answered a single pointed question (politician) nor have you told us of a single occasion where you did not give (or take, mr. politician) a bribe...
we await with baited breath to hear the result of you taking the action which you expect others to perform (not).
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Not going to piss into wind.
I'm out.
If people want to think a university degree or a sheltered NGO gig can change Africa in a couple years - good luck to you.
PS - If I have to go back and work - firstly not the end of the world, being a single guy I would love it, secondly I would roll with the rules...
Last two cents here, thanks and I am out.
I'm out.
If people want to think a university degree or a sheltered NGO gig can change Africa in a couple years - good luck to you.
PS - If I have to go back and work - firstly not the end of the world, being a single guy I would love it, secondly I would roll with the rules...
Last two cents here, thanks and I am out.
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Not withstanding the exciting distraction about the joys and perils of bribes, it will be great re-engage on the theme of this thread viz; possible ways of enhancing aviation safety in Africa.
Last edited by DRPAM007; 26th Sep 2011 at 00:06.
Most countries in Africa can be characterized as suffering from:
1. Insufficient food.
2. Insufficient shelter/housing.
3. Insufficient health care.
4. Insufficient education/training.
5. Endemic corruption.
6. Tribal friction/fighting.
Attend to these fundamental issues first and then you will first class aviation safety in Africa.
Many countries outside Africa have tried with varying amounts of success over the last few hundred years to bring Africa up to date with outside world standards but, most of those countries have now retreated and admitted defeat after having been bitten on both hands.
Alas, only Africa can help Africa and that is not likely to happen soon.
1. Insufficient food.
2. Insufficient shelter/housing.
3. Insufficient health care.
4. Insufficient education/training.
5. Endemic corruption.
6. Tribal friction/fighting.
Attend to these fundamental issues first and then you will first class aviation safety in Africa.
Many countries outside Africa have tried with varying amounts of success over the last few hundred years to bring Africa up to date with outside world standards but, most of those countries have now retreated and admitted defeat after having been bitten on both hands.
Alas, only Africa can help Africa and that is not likely to happen soon.
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Many countries outside Africa have tried with varying amounts of success over the last few hundred years to bring Africa up to date with outside world standards but, most of those countries have now retreated and admitted defeat after having been bitten on both hands.
Demonstrable goodwill to Africa will have to be restricted to the early missionaries and recently a handful of NGO's such as red cross, medicine sans frontiers to mention a few. But countries or governments do NOT act beyond protecting and Promoting their interests.
Those who feel it know it. The African re-awakening is sooner than you think.
Last edited by DRPAM007; 16th Oct 2011 at 13:52.
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More Help for Africa..?
The FINANCIAL - IATA Urges Partnership to Drive Aviation Benefits in Southern Africa
Good brief from IATA; as usual looking after the interests of it's member. Why should South Africa not impose carbon tax when IATA is only putting up a feeble opposition to the plethora of taxes that the EU is piling on aviation business. We'll like to see the 'walk' to back up the talk that IATA does not support the "Red list". Evidently, those who benefit most from that list are IATA members.
Good brief from IATA; as usual looking after the interests of it's member. Why should South Africa not impose carbon tax when IATA is only putting up a feeble opposition to the plethora of taxes that the EU is piling on aviation business. We'll like to see the 'walk' to back up the talk that IATA does not support the "Red list". Evidently, those who benefit most from that list are IATA members.
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The African re-awakening is sooner than you think.
Nigeria Accuses Europe Of Double Standards
By Leithen Francis
Nigeria’s head of civil aviation is accusing Europe of using safety blacklists as a mechanism for unfair competition and he also says many of the air accidents that occur in Africa are due to foreign registered aircraft or aircraft operating there illegally.
The U.S. FAA has a system where if it deems that a country is unsafe, it bans all airlines from that country and it also prevents U.S. carriers from operating there, noted Nigerian Civil Aviation Authority Director General H.O. Demuren, but the Europeans only ban the airlines from the blacklisted country while allowing European airlines to continue flying there.
When Europe blacklists an African nation, European carriers immediately boost flights there to fill the void left by the African carriers, Demuren told delegates yesterday at the Flight Safety Foundation’s Air Safety Seminar in Singapore. If the Europeans really believed a country was unsafe, then they should prevent all airlines from flying there, he said, adding that “there are people using safety for commercial advantage....If a place is unsafe, let’s shut it down and work together to improve it.”
Africa has a far higher air accident rate than many other regions of the world. But Demuren said many of Africa’s air accidents actually involve foreign registered aircraft. Some countries recognize foreign air operator certificate (AOC) holders. Demuren says problems arise because the African regulator may then fail to properly regulate those foreign AOC holders, many of which come from former Soviet states. He also says an issue that Africa faces is that some people are able to get away with operating aircraft in Africa illegally, because they base themselves in war-torn African countries.
Demuren says the Nigerian CAA is pushing for greater regional cooperation to help ensure no African nation is left behind when it comes to safety. He says the Nigerian CAA has been helping poorer neighboring nations by, for example, sending Nigerian aircraft safety inspectors there to assist. It is in Nigeria’s interest to do this, because airlines from those nations may end up flying to Nigeria, he adds.
Another challenge African civil aviation authorities face is political interference.
“Many director generals of civil aviation have been removed [in Africa] for standing up for safety,” said Demuren, adding that it is important that there be “safety regulation with no political interference.”
Nigeria Accuses Europe Of Double Standards | AVIATION WEEK
Nigeria’s head of civil aviation is accusing Europe of using safety blacklists as a mechanism for unfair competition and he also says many of the air accidents that occur in Africa are due to foreign registered aircraft or aircraft operating there illegally.
The U.S. FAA has a system where if it deems that a country is unsafe, it bans all airlines from that country and it also prevents U.S. carriers from operating there, noted Nigerian Civil Aviation Authority Director General H.O. Demuren, but the Europeans only ban the airlines from the blacklisted country while allowing European airlines to continue flying there.
When Europe blacklists an African nation, European carriers immediately boost flights there to fill the void left by the African carriers, Demuren told delegates yesterday at the Flight Safety Foundation’s Air Safety Seminar in Singapore. If the Europeans really believed a country was unsafe, then they should prevent all airlines from flying there, he said, adding that “there are people using safety for commercial advantage....If a place is unsafe, let’s shut it down and work together to improve it.”
Africa has a far higher air accident rate than many other regions of the world. But Demuren said many of Africa’s air accidents actually involve foreign registered aircraft. Some countries recognize foreign air operator certificate (AOC) holders. Demuren says problems arise because the African regulator may then fail to properly regulate those foreign AOC holders, many of which come from former Soviet states. He also says an issue that Africa faces is that some people are able to get away with operating aircraft in Africa illegally, because they base themselves in war-torn African countries.
Demuren says the Nigerian CAA is pushing for greater regional cooperation to help ensure no African nation is left behind when it comes to safety. He says the Nigerian CAA has been helping poorer neighboring nations by, for example, sending Nigerian aircraft safety inspectors there to assist. It is in Nigeria’s interest to do this, because airlines from those nations may end up flying to Nigeria, he adds.
Another challenge African civil aviation authorities face is political interference.
“Many director generals of civil aviation have been removed [in Africa] for standing up for safety,” said Demuren, adding that it is important that there be “safety regulation with no political interference.”
Nigeria Accuses Europe Of Double Standards | AVIATION WEEK
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Dear DRPAM007, stop blaming everyone else for Afrika's problems. And while you're at it, stop sending me emails from Lagos about your millions of dollars locked in an account that you need to transfer to me. For the last time, I'm not giving you my account details in exchange for a percentage of your fortune!!! The awakening is coming!
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The sleeping giant awakes?
I hope Demuren and Elijah Chingoso will learn that to bark and bite you need teeth. Concerted efforts with the primary victims (AFRAA) will bring this surreptitious ploy by desperate EU airlines to capture the African market 'by all means' to a grueling end. There's an overdue need to synergise and put forward a robust case against this injustice.
(Nice one 5N-OSA).
(Nice one 5N-OSA).
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For all the good people here who have some pearls of of wisdom and truly want to see the safety levels in Africa; here is a chance to help make some anonymous contribution on the survey unless you request for a soft copy of the finished work.
focused on the lingering safety concerns facing not just the African continent, but also the global community that traverse the region.
The project seeks to identify among others, the preliminary steps required to achieve "Safe, sustainable aviation the Africa and the Indian ocean (AFI) region".
Hopefully, this will not be just an academic exercise.
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Safe_...tion_in_Africa
Thanks.
focused on the lingering safety concerns facing not just the African continent, but also the global community that traverse the region.
The project seeks to identify among others, the preliminary steps required to achieve "Safe, sustainable aviation the Africa and the Indian ocean (AFI) region".
Hopefully, this will not be just an academic exercise.
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Safe_...tion_in_Africa
Thanks.
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A big thank you to the many of you who filled out the "safe, sustainable aviation in the AFI region survey". I do apologise for the technical issues reported on question 4, which has been promptly remedied. For those who are still interested, the survey will still be open till next week Wednesday.
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Safe_...tion_in_Africa
Once again many thanks and
Best regards.
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Safe_...tion_in_Africa
Once again many thanks and
Best regards.
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ASN News » 2012 exceptionally safe year for aviation
Meanwhile, road accidents have at least 14000 fatalities every year in south africa alone...
The year 2012 was an extremely safe year for civil aviation, Aviation Safety Network data show. The Aviation Safety Network recorded a total of 23 fatal airliner accidents, resulting in 475 fatalities and 36 ground fatalities. Both figures are extremely lower than the ten-year average of 34 accidents and 773 fatalities.
In fact, 2012 was the safest year since 1945 by number of accidents.
...
Africa still is the least safe continent, accounting for 22% of all fatal airliner accidents while the continent only accounts for approximately 3 percent of all world aircraft departures.
In fact, 2012 was the safest year since 1945 by number of accidents.
...
Africa still is the least safe continent, accounting for 22% of all fatal airliner accidents while the continent only accounts for approximately 3 percent of all world aircraft departures.
