Cape Flying Services
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Bla bla bla!!
Haven't we seen this so many times? People find something better to do, maybe like running your companies in a fair and honest way!!!! (Give it horns!) This is getting boring now!! GROW UP!!
Enjoy your evening!!
(Give it horns!)http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hreadid=180913
This is what this is all about!!
Ok bye now!!
Enjoy your evening!!
(Give it horns!)http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hreadid=180913
This is what this is all about!!
Ok bye now!!
Join Date: May 2003
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Class action pending...Now
I posted a lengthy contribution in a new forum yesterday (Sat 16th July) updating the forum with some public interest information regarding the latest legal class action against this school.
My previous posts, the enormous public interest shown on my own personal issues with the school, Gerald Todd and Naunton Pugh, put aside, there are currently over 40 individual, independent statements and growing every day pending with this class action. I do not know and ever met these people at all but they all share a common issue is that they all have horror stories to tell, feel betrayed and badly let down. This is clearly not a one man (me) vendetta against the school and all connected. This school has serious issues that even considering my own experience still to this day continue with the same practices. Surely, even to the hardened supporter of CFS cannot sensibly overlook this. Yes, yes, people will have had a good experience but overlooking the enormity of the complaints is quite simply and their blind attitude very kindly described as, unreasonable!
It is acceptable to realise that by own extensive posting and own well documented legal success through the UK court system against Naunton Pugh this has contributed to encouraging people to come forward with their own experience and seek legal retribution, this is of interest to anyone who wishes to use any of the services that are offered by these individuals and SA Aviation, I truly believe that. There are other ongoing legal matters against Gerald Todd and Co as I write this to you. People have a right to know how these characters operate, the pit falls, legal recourse available to them and reasonably air it in open forum on this website. Any thread posted, contributions made and heated debate on this website all comes with a disclaimer and in my opinion any post regarding CFS and Co is very moderate in comparison to others that are still open for contributions and debate.
Unfortunately, for some unknown reason and by, I assume, the moderators pulled the thread without explanation. I have attempted to ascertain the reason why but to no avail, perhaps, and I would be grateful for a reply in open forum as to why the thread was pulled. Should I not be allowed to air the thread in open forum I see no reason why people who have an interest on this school and pending/ imminent legal action cannot PM or email me and I will privately forward the document to them for their own actions.
Best Wishes
Sandy
My previous posts, the enormous public interest shown on my own personal issues with the school, Gerald Todd and Naunton Pugh, put aside, there are currently over 40 individual, independent statements and growing every day pending with this class action. I do not know and ever met these people at all but they all share a common issue is that they all have horror stories to tell, feel betrayed and badly let down. This is clearly not a one man (me) vendetta against the school and all connected. This school has serious issues that even considering my own experience still to this day continue with the same practices. Surely, even to the hardened supporter of CFS cannot sensibly overlook this. Yes, yes, people will have had a good experience but overlooking the enormity of the complaints is quite simply and their blind attitude very kindly described as, unreasonable!
It is acceptable to realise that by own extensive posting and own well documented legal success through the UK court system against Naunton Pugh this has contributed to encouraging people to come forward with their own experience and seek legal retribution, this is of interest to anyone who wishes to use any of the services that are offered by these individuals and SA Aviation, I truly believe that. There are other ongoing legal matters against Gerald Todd and Co as I write this to you. People have a right to know how these characters operate, the pit falls, legal recourse available to them and reasonably air it in open forum on this website. Any thread posted, contributions made and heated debate on this website all comes with a disclaimer and in my opinion any post regarding CFS and Co is very moderate in comparison to others that are still open for contributions and debate.
Unfortunately, for some unknown reason and by, I assume, the moderators pulled the thread without explanation. I have attempted to ascertain the reason why but to no avail, perhaps, and I would be grateful for a reply in open forum as to why the thread was pulled. Should I not be allowed to air the thread in open forum I see no reason why people who have an interest on this school and pending/ imminent legal action cannot PM or email me and I will privately forward the document to them for their own actions.
Best Wishes
Sandy
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YAWN
*Yawn yawn yawn*
Seriously, aren't you guys bored with this yet!
I'm tired as hell about listening to Sandy & Co. whining about CFS...
Yes everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I for one am sick of Sandy and his repetitivness.
Look sorry things didn't work out for you at CFS, but for a large amount of people it has. I looked at a lot of flying schools in the country, and when weighing up the pros and cons, this school won hands down.
With regards to your malicious statements regarding the owner, I have never found the owner to be anything but accommodating and professional.
But then these are MY experiences and why should I go around constantly repeating them in different threads... I'll tell you why, I'm sure this post will warrant nothing more than a cursary glance from everyone else...
Sandy, stop flogging that damn horse!
Regards
Seriously, aren't you guys bored with this yet!
I'm tired as hell about listening to Sandy & Co. whining about CFS...
Yes everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I for one am sick of Sandy and his repetitivness.
Look sorry things didn't work out for you at CFS, but for a large amount of people it has. I looked at a lot of flying schools in the country, and when weighing up the pros and cons, this school won hands down.
With regards to your malicious statements regarding the owner, I have never found the owner to be anything but accommodating and professional.
But then these are MY experiences and why should I go around constantly repeating them in different threads... I'll tell you why, I'm sure this post will warrant nothing more than a cursary glance from everyone else...
Sandy, stop flogging that damn horse!
Regards
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TIME TO END THIS
I think it is time that this one be put to rest. While Sandy Young Cleary gets freedom of speech on this one and continues to give updates on this topic. The guys at CFS cant even respond because the moderators have decided that it is free advertising for CFS. Gerald Todd cant even log into pprune any more. I think this is a bit biased.
I also think that people have missed the plot with this one. CFS paid SANDY his money back. IT was the British agent that did not pay him his deposit back, which he fought in a court of law and won the case. CONGRATS. NOW LET IT REST.
This is starting to border on harassment SANDY. WE ALL GOT THE POINT.
DONT MESS WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!!!
PLEASE, can the moderators NOW do something about this? People are starting to migrate to other forums because of SH"*&% like this.
I also think that people have missed the plot with this one. CFS paid SANDY his money back. IT was the British agent that did not pay him his deposit back, which he fought in a court of law and won the case. CONGRATS. NOW LET IT REST.
This is starting to border on harassment SANDY. WE ALL GOT THE POINT.
DONT MESS WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!!!
PLEASE, can the moderators NOW do something about this? People are starting to migrate to other forums because of SH"*&% like this.
Join Date: Jan 1997
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Sandy got his run here because of the breathtaking, long term abrogation of the whole truth by SA schools and their agents, including membership owned and run ones, recruiting european PPL students.
They reap what they collectively sold to amateur pilots each of whom returned to europe and the UK to find how ridiculously and hopelessly limited the SA PPL is outside Africa.
We have those representing schools stupid enough to have gone into print to us here in the Towers claiming the onus is on the student to discover the truth versus the claims on their website when I personally queried the content.
Let me make this absolutely clear. I personally raised these issues, made it clear who I was, the website I run and the replies were sent to my personal email address. And if anyone wants to seriously dispute this I will name and shame. Clear?
The mote is in the eye of SA GA and not those who stand up against misselling of amateur level licence courses.
If any readers want to turn their back on an international website which has a 10 year history of getting the truth out whatever the legal pressures go ahead and fill your boots. I will not embarrass the regulars with a list of the SA scandals uncovered on this forum year after year or the distinguished list of proven lawyers who threaten us with proceedings on an all too regular basis.
Sometimes the truth is uncomfortable but it does not stop it being an issue. Just because we are talking about mere PPL training does not stop it becoming another thorn in the reputation of SA aviation.
To those mentally composing their ripostes already may I point out that simply taking a poke at one dogged, obstinate and bloody minded Brit has already been done to death if you'll forgive me paraphrasing the astounding quality of the general rebutals here. Neutral observers read that as simply avoiding any mention that 40 or so others are angry enough to take legal action and court dates actually existing.
Or is that too uncomfortable as well?
Yesterday I wrote to you with solid and truthful information about scammers trying to screw 250 euros out of applicants for Virgin Nigeria. You know that we will expose them by name as soon as we can get the information we are actively seeking from PPRuNers worldwide. Not one of you lot complained regarding that did you?
Iīm writing the solid, unadultereated truth now. What sort of forum do you guys actually want is the the real question.
Regards to all,
Rob LLoyd
They reap what they collectively sold to amateur pilots each of whom returned to europe and the UK to find how ridiculously and hopelessly limited the SA PPL is outside Africa.
We have those representing schools stupid enough to have gone into print to us here in the Towers claiming the onus is on the student to discover the truth versus the claims on their website when I personally queried the content.
Let me make this absolutely clear. I personally raised these issues, made it clear who I was, the website I run and the replies were sent to my personal email address. And if anyone wants to seriously dispute this I will name and shame. Clear?
The mote is in the eye of SA GA and not those who stand up against misselling of amateur level licence courses.
If any readers want to turn their back on an international website which has a 10 year history of getting the truth out whatever the legal pressures go ahead and fill your boots. I will not embarrass the regulars with a list of the SA scandals uncovered on this forum year after year or the distinguished list of proven lawyers who threaten us with proceedings on an all too regular basis.
Sometimes the truth is uncomfortable but it does not stop it being an issue. Just because we are talking about mere PPL training does not stop it becoming another thorn in the reputation of SA aviation.
To those mentally composing their ripostes already may I point out that simply taking a poke at one dogged, obstinate and bloody minded Brit has already been done to death if you'll forgive me paraphrasing the astounding quality of the general rebutals here. Neutral observers read that as simply avoiding any mention that 40 or so others are angry enough to take legal action and court dates actually existing.
Or is that too uncomfortable as well?
Yesterday I wrote to you with solid and truthful information about scammers trying to screw 250 euros out of applicants for Virgin Nigeria. You know that we will expose them by name as soon as we can get the information we are actively seeking from PPRuNers worldwide. Not one of you lot complained regarding that did you?
Iīm writing the solid, unadultereated truth now. What sort of forum do you guys actually want is the the real question.
Regards to all,
Rob LLoyd
(Russian Gynegology)
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Rob,
I do agree with your writing. However, man who put his hard earned money for a 3 week training course in South Africa and expects to be a licenced pilot is not very realistic either!
There is no free lunches in this world and I agree that these schools should tell the hole story in their marketing advertisements.
Even so, there always will be some "suckers" who do not believe that they are not able to get something for the half price.....
I do agree with your writing. However, man who put his hard earned money for a 3 week training course in South Africa and expects to be a licenced pilot is not very realistic either!
There is no free lunches in this world and I agree that these schools should tell the hole story in their marketing advertisements.
Even so, there always will be some "suckers" who do not believe that they are not able to get something for the half price.....
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Hi Rob (PPRuNe Towers)
I totally agree with the majority of your post of this subject and your reasons for letting it run.
However, I disagree with this part of your post apart from the they reap collectively:
[QUOTE]They reap what they collectively sold to amateur pilots each of whom returned to Europe and the UK to find how ridiculously and hopelessly limited the SA PPL is outside Africa
I am a SA Grade II instructor as well as a UK CAA Flight & Class Rating Examiner along with the appropriate UK Licences and I regularly renew/revalidate the licenses and ratings of SA Licence holders.
I find that those who have been trained by the better schools presenting themselves for test are generally of a standard equal to or better than locally trained pilots and also at a far better standard of those who have been trained for JAA PPLs at the ubiquitous JAR Approved schools in Florida. BTW I have all the FAA Licenses and ratings too, and have recently completed the FAA initial flight examiner standardisation course with the FAA in Oklahoma City, and regularly test FAA certified pilots for the biennial Flight Reviews and those who have FAA PPL trained by good FAA schools are as equally competent as their counterparts here in the UK.
In the main the SA trained people are as competent in practice forced landings and all the other manoeuvres required for their renewals (which are identical in content to the UK LPC) as UK trained PPLs. In addition their RT is vastly better than those who have trained in the US (I am also a UK FRTOL examiner so feel I can comment in this department).
The only problem SA licensees have, initially, in the UK is getting familiarised with navigating in our fairly busy airspace, but at least they have recognised method of navigation compared with the Florida trained contingent who seem to be only able to feature crawl!
Without mentioning names I have recently completed renewals on pilots who have trained at 5 well-known establishments; two of which are at PE, one at Port Alfred, two at Grand Central (not the late unlamented FTC) and one from Rand Airport and all of them were proficient and had been trained to a good standard.
There quite a number of SA license holders flying in the UK, solely on their SA licenses quite safely so the licence cannot be that limited.
You are regretfully correct that the like of CFS only do harm to the majority of SA flight schools who are proud of their standards of training and produce some good pilots.
Regards, Rob
I totally agree with the majority of your post of this subject and your reasons for letting it run.
However, I disagree with this part of your post apart from the they reap collectively:
[QUOTE]They reap what they collectively sold to amateur pilots each of whom returned to Europe and the UK to find how ridiculously and hopelessly limited the SA PPL is outside Africa
I am a SA Grade II instructor as well as a UK CAA Flight & Class Rating Examiner along with the appropriate UK Licences and I regularly renew/revalidate the licenses and ratings of SA Licence holders.
I find that those who have been trained by the better schools presenting themselves for test are generally of a standard equal to or better than locally trained pilots and also at a far better standard of those who have been trained for JAA PPLs at the ubiquitous JAR Approved schools in Florida. BTW I have all the FAA Licenses and ratings too, and have recently completed the FAA initial flight examiner standardisation course with the FAA in Oklahoma City, and regularly test FAA certified pilots for the biennial Flight Reviews and those who have FAA PPL trained by good FAA schools are as equally competent as their counterparts here in the UK.
In the main the SA trained people are as competent in practice forced landings and all the other manoeuvres required for their renewals (which are identical in content to the UK LPC) as UK trained PPLs. In addition their RT is vastly better than those who have trained in the US (I am also a UK FRTOL examiner so feel I can comment in this department).
The only problem SA licensees have, initially, in the UK is getting familiarised with navigating in our fairly busy airspace, but at least they have recognised method of navigation compared with the Florida trained contingent who seem to be only able to feature crawl!
Without mentioning names I have recently completed renewals on pilots who have trained at 5 well-known establishments; two of which are at PE, one at Port Alfred, two at Grand Central (not the late unlamented FTC) and one from Rand Airport and all of them were proficient and had been trained to a good standard.
There quite a number of SA license holders flying in the UK, solely on their SA licenses quite safely so the licence cannot be that limited.
You are regretfully correct that the like of CFS only do harm to the majority of SA flight schools who are proud of their standards of training and produce some good pilots.
Regards, Rob
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relax relax relax.
CFS worked for me.Did my ppl , went off built my hours came back did my com ,they even refunded monies,for flying I didnt use. had a great time in the crew house.
Currently flying B737 and on my way to A340 and I have a dozen friends that completed their training there.
regards
Francois
CFS worked for me.Did my ppl , went off built my hours came back did my com ,they even refunded monies,for flying I didnt use. had a great time in the crew house.
Currently flying B737 and on my way to A340 and I have a dozen friends that completed their training there.
regards
Francois
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Ditto. I did my initial PPL training with Cape Flying Services in the space of about 5 weeks ( I was lazy and the weather was sometimes not too great! ), had a great time and also made some good friends. At that time Gerald suggested that I look at aviation as a career but due to other considerations it didn't happen then.
However his comments about one never being too old stuck and I now find myself at the ripe old age of 38 sweating through the foul fourteen for a UK ATPL. Maybe I'll never fly the big jets but maybe someone will pay me someday to fly aeroplanes and that's good enough for me!
So, to all the detractors of Cape Flying Services out there I'm sorry you didn't have as great a time as I and a bunch of my mates did and your disappointment has been duly noted. You don't have to go back to CFS and you can even tell your friends you had a bad time but that doesn't mean you speak for all of CFS' previous students. You don't speak for me, so relax and find yourself somewhere else to continue or complete your flight training.
In short: Get over it and carry on with your life.
However his comments about one never being too old stuck and I now find myself at the ripe old age of 38 sweating through the foul fourteen for a UK ATPL. Maybe I'll never fly the big jets but maybe someone will pay me someday to fly aeroplanes and that's good enough for me!
So, to all the detractors of Cape Flying Services out there I'm sorry you didn't have as great a time as I and a bunch of my mates did and your disappointment has been duly noted. You don't have to go back to CFS and you can even tell your friends you had a bad time but that doesn't mean you speak for all of CFS' previous students. You don't speak for me, so relax and find yourself somewhere else to continue or complete your flight training.
In short: Get over it and carry on with your life.
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Same here:
Had a wonderful 9 months doing my CPL/ME/IR at CFS. The team was great, the flying was excellent (all except the usual Garden route weather in winter...). Even got permission to fly up to Namibia with a couple of other students and 2 school a/c.
Gerald Todd is a super guy. Cheers Gerald! ....uuhhh sorry (again) about IUA...!!
Frenchy
(Ret. C208 Driver)
Had a wonderful 9 months doing my CPL/ME/IR at CFS. The team was great, the flying was excellent (all except the usual Garden route weather in winter...). Even got permission to fly up to Namibia with a couple of other students and 2 school a/c.
Gerald Todd is a super guy. Cheers Gerald! ....uuhhh sorry (again) about IUA...!!
Frenchy
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The bit I want to comment on is the suggestion on page 2 that SA training in general is somehow poor. I spent a lot of my own money after being impressed by the standard of a brand new SA PPL turning up to rent at my UK airfield straight from P.E.!
Meeting this guy led me to finding out a lot more about SA PPL training, and eventually dig into my pockets to get SA instructor qualifications myself to renew, mentor and support the SA PPL community in the UK. I now run a free mentoring service for their arrival in the UK through a website, newsletter, and FAQ page etc.
Yes, all pilots who train abroad anywhere need intros to UK Nav and airspace, but the the training in SA still seems pretty rigorous to me. It seems to have been developed in conjunction with the Uk years ago and hence uses common terms and procedures (eg: QFE, QNH, overhead joins). It certainly hasn't been dumbed down since.
Irv
Meeting this guy led me to finding out a lot more about SA PPL training, and eventually dig into my pockets to get SA instructor qualifications myself to renew, mentor and support the SA PPL community in the UK. I now run a free mentoring service for their arrival in the UK through a website, newsletter, and FAQ page etc.
Yes, all pilots who train abroad anywhere need intros to UK Nav and airspace, but the the training in SA still seems pretty rigorous to me. It seems to have been developed in conjunction with the Uk years ago and hence uses common terms and procedures (eg: QFE, QNH, overhead joins). It certainly hasn't been dumbed down since.
Irv
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Weīve discussed this before Irv.
You know the points Im making all too well - otherwise there would be no need for your website or professional assistance when freshly minted PPLīs get home would there?
Show me precisely where I made any suggestion regarding the standard of those issued with an SA PPL would you? Which part of the word īmissellingīdonīt you understand? And while were at it would the little hurt voices from the CFS Com/ME students take note. Bang the bloody rocks together guys and read the damn post I made again and letīs pick the first paragraph apart. That shouldnīt be too much of a strain should it?
Since when did CFS become South Africaīs flying schools?
At what point did CFS become a member owned and controlled club?
This has nothing to do with the quality of instruction otherwise my comments would extend higher up the food chain. Note I am discussing PPL licences only and not the com students who are so touchingly rallying to the fold.
Irv, you have studiously ignored the real reasons returning students might need such specialised assistance from you when the hundreds returning from the States with FAA licences donīt. You also signally fail to address the plight of Europeans and those outside southern England in maintaining their licence, renewing a medical and the simplest changing of types they want to fly.
Or did you chose to misinterpret the words: to find how ridiculously and hopelessly limited the SA PPL is outside Africa.?
Smoke and mirrors or a genuine misreading of a very carefully written post Irv?
Regards
Rob
You know the points Im making all too well - otherwise there would be no need for your website or professional assistance when freshly minted PPLīs get home would there?
Show me precisely where I made any suggestion regarding the standard of those issued with an SA PPL would you? Which part of the word īmissellingīdonīt you understand? And while were at it would the little hurt voices from the CFS Com/ME students take note. Bang the bloody rocks together guys and read the damn post I made again and letīs pick the first paragraph apart. That shouldnīt be too much of a strain should it?
Since when did CFS become South Africaīs flying schools?
At what point did CFS become a member owned and controlled club?
This has nothing to do with the quality of instruction otherwise my comments would extend higher up the food chain. Note I am discussing PPL licences only and not the com students who are so touchingly rallying to the fold.
Irv, you have studiously ignored the real reasons returning students might need such specialised assistance from you when the hundreds returning from the States with FAA licences donīt. You also signally fail to address the plight of Europeans and those outside southern England in maintaining their licence, renewing a medical and the simplest changing of types they want to fly.
Or did you chose to misinterpret the words: to find how ridiculously and hopelessly limited the SA PPL is outside Africa.?
Smoke and mirrors or a genuine misreading of a very carefully written post Irv?
Regards
Rob
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I paid for a CPL/IR Multi with CFS some years back and on arrival in George found the twin in pieces, aircraft in disrepair and moral with staff and students so low I nearly slit my wrists!!. Of course I wanted a refund but was willing to forego the deposit as is norm in most businesses.
As I'd paid 50% course cost up front and was on CFS student visa Todd threatened me with allsorts.....I even got a midday visit from some 'heavies'. A visit to a lawyer in George confirmed my fears ' You are the 5th student this year (July) to come to me with complaints about this particular man and his business and yes we could fight it and win but it would cost you more and waste two years of your life'.
I renogiated the terms of the contract but lost a lot of money.The happy ending is I did transfer to a very good school in Durban and subsequently got a job in SA.
I have never and will never recommend CFS or any of Gerald Todd's businesses. In fact I always tell those interested to do a reccie trip to their country of preference before paying a cent as diff. people relate to diff. schools and environments.....my very costly lesson however I have never heard as many complaints about a school as I have about CFS and Gerald Todd.
My bad luck or bad judgement I guess!.
As I'd paid 50% course cost up front and was on CFS student visa Todd threatened me with allsorts.....I even got a midday visit from some 'heavies'. A visit to a lawyer in George confirmed my fears ' You are the 5th student this year (July) to come to me with complaints about this particular man and his business and yes we could fight it and win but it would cost you more and waste two years of your life'.
I renogiated the terms of the contract but lost a lot of money.The happy ending is I did transfer to a very good school in Durban and subsequently got a job in SA.
I have never and will never recommend CFS or any of Gerald Todd's businesses. In fact I always tell those interested to do a reccie trip to their country of preference before paying a cent as diff. people relate to diff. schools and environments.....my very costly lesson however I have never heard as many complaints about a school as I have about CFS and Gerald Todd.
My bad luck or bad judgement I guess!.
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Gosh, I trod on an ant's nest there! Yes, SORRY, Rob, I did mistake the comment about the SA PPL 'being hopelessly limited outside Africa' for a comment on training, but whether you accept it or not, NOT mistaken deliberately - just me being rushed and generally swamped at the moment.
I had genuinely gone away 'overnight' with the impression that you had attacked the standard of SA training generally - ie:suggesting that rental places outside Africa didn't like the SA PPL standard. Proper reading (which you are absolutely right, I didn't do) shows you never mentioned (or even hinted you meant) the standard of training. Apologies- I shouldn't be so rushed!
BUT then you seem to have taken one of my sentences and not read it as intended ... See my comment about Nav for PPLs who were taught abroad ANYWHERE - You've taken that as 'SA PPLs'. ( If that had been the other way round, would you have asked me what part of the word 'anywhere' didn't I understand??? )
This is sadly diverting the main thread, as I'm talking generalities, but I genuinely believe new PPLs who trained ANYWHERE outside the UK (USA, OZ, SA, etc) need mentoring in the UK when they arrive - not for legal reasons, but just to be confident happy pilots in a new country. Why should they learn by mistakes? If they intend to rent at Popham I just give them a G/H checkout and if they want, team them up with locals who want to cost share and can show them around. That keeps 2 pilots happy. If they want to fly with me, we go off on some short routes to nearby airfields. This applies where-ever they learned: USA, SA, etc etc, but I find " US trained" tend to need slight more initial ground time due to need to understand overhead joins, terminology etc.
Obviously it's not part of the main theme of the post, but here's the question I should have asked if I had been half awake to notice - rather than divert the main thread, just PM me if you want:
What were you refering to by the SA PPL and 'hopelessly limited' comment?
If you are talking 'medicals' or recognition of licences, obviously the SA PPL is recognised here in the UK with auto-valdiation. I recently met two pilots living in France happily flying there on French validations, one just flew over for a renewal and medical and saw it all as a great experience, part of his fun flying.
If you were talking medicals, as well as the doctors who do SA medicals (mainly around London therefore not UK wide), the SA CAA do now recognise foreign medicals (eg: JAA ones) IF all the 'readings' are sent in for inspection - takes slightly longer, but the route is there.
If you were talking about 'type limitations' on PPLs, many of the SA PPLs I meet are quite happy at first keeping with original types for rental pipers or cessnas, for the first year or so. When they get interested in expanding or joining a syndicate, they either get a 'type' on that particular aircraft, or get a converted licence as they often have 100 hours by then and it is easier. Others are not interested in actually 'fun flying', they are using the SA PPL as a means to an end to eventually get their JAA CPLs.
If you are talking about renewals, I haven't yet met anyone who has moaned about coming down to Southern England for a renewal, they all seem a happy bunch just seeing it as part of a big adventure.
Also, (my memory is notoriously suspect on such matters) I didn't recognise the 'we have discussed this before' comment, but I get so swamped with various emails and calls we might well have discussed even recently I'd need to be reminded by now. (Unless the 'we' was general, on the forum, rather than 'we' meaning me and you).
Apologies for treading on the ants nest
I had genuinely gone away 'overnight' with the impression that you had attacked the standard of SA training generally - ie:suggesting that rental places outside Africa didn't like the SA PPL standard. Proper reading (which you are absolutely right, I didn't do) shows you never mentioned (or even hinted you meant) the standard of training. Apologies- I shouldn't be so rushed!
BUT then you seem to have taken one of my sentences and not read it as intended ... See my comment about Nav for PPLs who were taught abroad ANYWHERE - You've taken that as 'SA PPLs'. ( If that had been the other way round, would you have asked me what part of the word 'anywhere' didn't I understand??? )
This is sadly diverting the main thread, as I'm talking generalities, but I genuinely believe new PPLs who trained ANYWHERE outside the UK (USA, OZ, SA, etc) need mentoring in the UK when they arrive - not for legal reasons, but just to be confident happy pilots in a new country. Why should they learn by mistakes? If they intend to rent at Popham I just give them a G/H checkout and if they want, team them up with locals who want to cost share and can show them around. That keeps 2 pilots happy. If they want to fly with me, we go off on some short routes to nearby airfields. This applies where-ever they learned: USA, SA, etc etc, but I find " US trained" tend to need slight more initial ground time due to need to understand overhead joins, terminology etc.
Obviously it's not part of the main theme of the post, but here's the question I should have asked if I had been half awake to notice - rather than divert the main thread, just PM me if you want:
What were you refering to by the SA PPL and 'hopelessly limited' comment?
If you are talking 'medicals' or recognition of licences, obviously the SA PPL is recognised here in the UK with auto-valdiation. I recently met two pilots living in France happily flying there on French validations, one just flew over for a renewal and medical and saw it all as a great experience, part of his fun flying.
If you were talking medicals, as well as the doctors who do SA medicals (mainly around London therefore not UK wide), the SA CAA do now recognise foreign medicals (eg: JAA ones) IF all the 'readings' are sent in for inspection - takes slightly longer, but the route is there.
If you were talking about 'type limitations' on PPLs, many of the SA PPLs I meet are quite happy at first keeping with original types for rental pipers or cessnas, for the first year or so. When they get interested in expanding or joining a syndicate, they either get a 'type' on that particular aircraft, or get a converted licence as they often have 100 hours by then and it is easier. Others are not interested in actually 'fun flying', they are using the SA PPL as a means to an end to eventually get their JAA CPLs.
If you are talking about renewals, I haven't yet met anyone who has moaned about coming down to Southern England for a renewal, they all seem a happy bunch just seeing it as part of a big adventure.
Also, (my memory is notoriously suspect on such matters) I didn't recognise the 'we have discussed this before' comment, but I get so swamped with various emails and calls we might well have discussed even recently I'd need to be reminded by now. (Unless the 'we' was general, on the forum, rather than 'we' meaning me and you).
Apologies for treading on the ants nest
Join Date: Mar 2001
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i also went to cfs, but on seeing it run, decided against staying there for my training.
like many of you, i made great friends there, and even met the best girl ever.
but, i think people should be allowed to write to whatever lengths they want regarding matters and experiences they have had on a topic which is relative to the forum it is in.
if, like so many are saying, it is boring and has been doneto death, why do you people keep returning to the thread and reading the posts?
we all have the control of what we look at, what we read, and what we choose to double click on...
i know you miss buffet!
like many of you, i made great friends there, and even met the best girl ever.
but, i think people should be allowed to write to whatever lengths they want regarding matters and experiences they have had on a topic which is relative to the forum it is in.
if, like so many are saying, it is boring and has been doneto death, why do you people keep returning to the thread and reading the posts?
we all have the control of what we look at, what we read, and what we choose to double click on...
i know you miss buffet!
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Howizzit going Frenchy, long time no see............!!!!!
Nick, you have to be honest........!!
There is a good reason you think Gerald is a hellova nice guy .........because of the simple reason, he kept you out of jail while you allmost killed yourself flying IUA.
You know, just as well as I do, that in our days at CFS (somewhere around 1997.. man, time flies....!!) ......... more than one student was complaining about Gerald Todd's Financial management.
I sure was one of them, because of the simple fact, he would not let me fly anymore untill I made another deposit....., although I had 14.000 Rand in my account...!!
Yes I agree,...... this is and was a long time ago. ......I don't know if Gerald has changed his attitude or for a matter of fact what the hell is going on there in George right now..!!
Looks like you got your career going on there in der Schweizz, and I am happy here in the US of A , flying Lear's.
The only point I am trying to make here to all future wannebe pilots is :
Never.. ever.. pay too much money upfront.....to whatever Flightschool....!!!!
Pay as you fly......so, they can't squeeze your balls, if your not satisfied with whatsoever...!!
He, I learned the hard way....!!
Take care Guys.
Viva La France....USOFA............and keep in mind......your not much if you aint Dutch...!!
Gary.
Nick, you have to be honest........!!
There is a good reason you think Gerald is a hellova nice guy .........because of the simple reason, he kept you out of jail while you allmost killed yourself flying IUA.
You know, just as well as I do, that in our days at CFS (somewhere around 1997.. man, time flies....!!) ......... more than one student was complaining about Gerald Todd's Financial management.
I sure was one of them, because of the simple fact, he would not let me fly anymore untill I made another deposit....., although I had 14.000 Rand in my account...!!
Yes I agree,...... this is and was a long time ago. ......I don't know if Gerald has changed his attitude or for a matter of fact what the hell is going on there in George right now..!!
Looks like you got your career going on there in der Schweizz, and I am happy here in the US of A , flying Lear's.
The only point I am trying to make here to all future wannebe pilots is :
Never.. ever.. pay too much money upfront.....to whatever Flightschool....!!!!
Pay as you fly......so, they can't squeeze your balls, if your not satisfied with whatsoever...!!
He, I learned the hard way....!!
Take care Guys.
Viva La France....USOFA............and keep in mind......your not much if you aint Dutch...!!
Gary.
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Thanks for all the private messages. A class action is being considered. Buffet mentions he uses "heavies" to enforce his way. That's just the tip of it! Intimidation, blackmail letters, cancelled student visas, false affidavids in an effort to throw a student out of SA - they are all part of the MO of this guy. What's clear is that he preys on those most unlikely to retaliate. Also those who he perceives as vulnerable or ignorant. To those few praise singers - count yourselves lucky! This guy is quite a piece of work!